LED MEDIA COMPANY. I AM DELIGHTED TO BE JOINED IN
THE STUDIO BY CARLA MCCALL FROM ITV.
WE DO HAVE THIS PIECE OF NEWS WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.
IN TERMS OF M&A, WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN CHANNEL FOUR?
CAROLYN: IT MAY NOT BE NEWS. WE WOULD NEVER COMMENT ON
SPECULATION. IT IS TOTAL SPECULATION.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ITV ABOUT CHANNEL FOUR IS
CHANNEL FOUR IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS LANDSCAPE THAT
PEOPLE VALUE SO MUCH. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN
HAPPENING OVER COVID, NOT JUST GOVERNMENT BUT VIEWERS HAVE IN
VOLUMES SAID HOW IMPORTANT PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCASTING HAS
BEEN CUT WHETHER IT IS IMPARTIAL NEWS, ACCURATE
INFORMATION, BUT ALSO THE SOAPS OR MORNING SHOWS THAT HAVE
STAYED ON ALL THE WAY THROUGH COVID.
GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZES THAT THE VALUE OF PUBLIC SERVICE
BROADCASTING IN A WAY THAT MAYBE THEY DID NOT BEFORE.
WE ARE LUCKY IN THIS COUNTRY AND PRIVILEGED TO HAVE THAT
ECOLOGY, WHICH NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS. FRANCINE: IT IS VERY TRUE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MEDIA DISRUPTION, SOME OF THE
ON-DEMAND, HOW DO YOU SEE THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE CHANGING THE
NEXT THREE TO FOUR YEARS? CAROLYN:
YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT. IF YOU ARE ITV OR CHANNEL FOUR
OR ANY BROADCASTER, YOU ARE NOW COMPETING WITH FACEBOOK AND
GOOGLE FOR ADVERTISING DOLLARS AND ALSO COMPETING WITH
STREAMERS FOR AUDIENCES. IT IS A BRUTALLY COMPETITIVE
WORLD. THAT IS FINE. YOU JUST HAVE TO PRODUCE
BRILLIANT PROGRAMMING TO COMPETE WITH THAT.
WHAT IS NOT FINE IS THE LEGISLATION THAT REGULATES
PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCASTERS WAS SET IN 2003 WHEN FACEBOOK DID
NOT EVEN EXIST. THE MODERNIZATION OF THAT 2003 ACT
IS CRITICAL TO THE FUTURE OF BROADCASTING IN THIS COUNTRY OR
PUBLIC SERVICE MEDIA IN THIS COUNTRY.
IN THE LINEAR WORLD, IF WE CAN CALL IT THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE IN
A WAY THERE IS NO SUCH THING ANYMORE, THERE ARE VERY CLEAR
RULES ABOUT WHERE YOU ARE LISTED, ACCESSIBILITY, AND
VALUE FOR THE CONTENT YOU GET FOR FREE.
THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN THE DIGITAL WORLD.
THAT IS WHAT HAS GOT TO CHANGE. FRANCINE:
FOR INTERNATIONAL VIEWERS WATCHING US, I KNOW THE
AMERICANS SAY YOU HAVE RULES GOVERNING BROADCASTERS BUT NOT
WHAT IS ONLINE. IT IS UNIQUE TO THE U.K..
WHY HAVE THESE RULES NOT CHANGED? CAROLYN:
IT IS A GOOD QUESTION. IF YOU HAVE BEEN ON THIS SIDE
OF THE FENCE, YOU HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR CHANGE.
I HAVE BEEN AT ITV FOR FOUR YEARS.
WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT FOR
QUITE A LONG TIME. I THINK OUR REGULATOR HAS GOT
IT NOW. I THINK GOVERNMENT HAS GOT IT.
I THINK THERE WILL BE CHANGE, BUT I WOULD STRESS HOW URGENT
THAT CHANGE IS. WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW
MANY PRIORITIES THIS GOVERNMENT HAS.
MY BIGGEST PLEA IS THAT THEY DO NOT ALLOW THIS ASPECT TO DROP
DOWN THE AGENDA BECAUSE OF THE OTHER PRIORITIES BECAUSE IF WE
DO NOT ACT QUICKLY IT WILL BE TOO LATE.
THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT SAY WE WISH WE HAD DONE SOMETHING
EARLIER ON THE FRAMEWORK FOR THIS IMPORTANT BROADCASTING
COMMUNICATION. THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
IT IS ABOUT SOCIETY, ABOUT HOW NEWS IS RECEIVED.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE FABRIC OF DEMOCRACY.
IT HAS TO BE ACTED ON NOW PRN -- NOW. FRANCINE:
WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN HAPPENING IN
THE U.K., WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE MEDIA AND FILM INDUSTRY?
IS IT DIFFICULT TO ATTRACT TALENT FROM ABROAD OR SELL
THINGS TO OTHER BROADCASTERS INTERNATIONALLY? CAROLYN:
I THINK TALENT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE HARD.
I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE JUST GOT HARDER, BUT IT IS NOT
IMPOSSIBLE.
IF YOU ARE A KNOWN SUPPORTER OF CREATIVE'S, WHICH ITV IS -- WE
ARE A GLOBAL BUSINESS IN ITV STUDIOS.
IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR DIVERSIFICATION AWAY FROM
ADVERTISING.
WE ARE KNOWN TO BE CREATIVE, SO CREATIVES LIKE WORKING FOR ITV.
THAT IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF WHAT WE DO AND WE ALLOW PEOPLE
CREATIVE AUTONOMY. WE HAVE 56 LABELS IN ITV
STUDIOS, AND THEY RUN AUTONOMOUS CREATIVE UNITS.
THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE TALENT WE ATTRACT.
WE'VE ESTABLISHED LONG RELATIONSHIPS WITH WRITERS,
DIRECTORS, CREW.
THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT SKILL SHORTAGE BEHIND THE CAMERA,
THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT IF YOU ARE IN PRODUCTION YOU HAVE
TO WORK HARD TO GET YOUR CREW BACK HERE IN YOUR SECOND
QUESTION IS ABOUT HOW WE SELL -- PETITION SHOWS ARE MUCH IN
DEMAND. IT IS AMAZING. WE DOUBLED OUR BUSINESS WITH
STREAMERS OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.
ITV AMERICA IS DOING EXTREMELY WELL.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT COWBOY BEBOP, THERE ARE SO MANY BIG
SHOWS. FRANCINE: WHY IS THAT? CAROLYN:
I THINK IT IS A COMBINATION OF US SELLING BRITISH CONTENT WITH
BRITISH TALENT TO THE GLOBAL AUDIENCE, WHETHER THAT IS LOVE
ISLAND, THERE IS A WHOLE REAM OF SHOWS WE DO THAT ARE IN
DEMAND OVERSEAS. WE HAVE THESE AMAZING STUDIOS
WE SUPPORT THAT ARE ABLE TO HAVE THAT CREATIVE AUTONOMY AND
MAKE SHOWS THAT ARE COMMISSIONED BY STREAMERS OR
COBLE NETWORKS -- CABLE NETWORKS BUT ALSO IN ITALY OR
FRANCE.
THERE IS A WHOLE LOAD OF VERY STRONG SCRIPTED AND UNSCRIPTED
LABELS IN THE GROUP. FRANCINE: WHAT DO YOU SPEND MOST OF YOUR
TIME THAT IS HARD TO DO? IS IT PRODUCING CONTENT?
CAROLYN: NOTHING IS THAT EASY. I DO NOT WORRY ABOUT NEWS
BECAUSE WE HAVE A FANTASTIC NEWS TEAM AND A FANTASTIC
DIRECTOR OF NEWS.
WE ARE INVOLVED IN THAT, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
MY GREATEST WORRY IS BEING ABLE TO CONVEY AND COMMUNICATE
INTERNALLY FOR US THE PACE OF CHANGE AND HOW WE CANNOT LET UP.
WE ARE DOING WELL. OUR PROGRESS IS GOOD ON THE
DIGITALLY LED TRANSFORMATION THAT WE CANNOT LET UP FOR A
MINUTE. IT CAN BE EXHAUSTING INTERNALLY.
EXTERNALLY, THE BIG CHALLENGE IS GETTING ANALYSTS TO SEE WE
HAVE A DIGITAL BUSINESS WHICH IS MAKING A LOT OF REVENUE AND
WE ARE NOT A TRADITIONAL STRUCTURALLY CHALLENGE BUSINESS.
WE ARE NOT ANYMORE. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE
INVESTED IN , DATA, TECHNOLOGY, ANALYTICS
FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN ITV, IT IS REALLY TRANSFORMING.
IT IS NOT TRANSFORMED YET, BUT IT IS TRANSFORMING.
THE ANALYSTS, IF YOU ARE A BEAR, THEY FEAR THE STRUCTURAL
CHALLENGES NOT BEHIND US. FRANCINE:
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?
I HEAR BANKING SHEEP EXECUTIVES -- CHIEF EXECUTIVES STRUGGLING
TO PRICE THAT. CAROLYN: THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT NUMBERS
TO PUT INTO THEIR MODEL YET. I KIND OF WISH THEY CAN MAKE AN
ESTIMATE BASED ON PERFORMANCE AND PROGRESS RATHER THAN JUST
TAKING A BEAR VIEW, WHICH IS LIKE IT IS ALL GOING TO HAPPEN,
THE CHALLENGES ARE MORE THAN THE OPPORTUNITIES.
WE THINK THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE SIGNIFICANT GOING FORWARD.
WE BELIEVE THAT WILL THRIVE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
GOVERNMENT TAKING ACTION AND MAKING SURE WE HAVE ASSESS
ABILITY. -- ACCESSIBILITY.
IF YOU THINK OF ANY BIG EVENT, BIG DRAMAS, BIG SPORTING
WE ARE JOINED BY CAROLYN MCCALL FOR AN EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION
ON THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE AND CLIMATE CHANGE.
THANK YOU FOR STICKING AROUND. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PLEDGES
SOME COMPANIES HAVE DONE AHEAD OF GLASGOW, HOW DOES ITV LOOK
AT THIS? DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE GOING
AT IT ALONE? CAROLYN:
I THINK ITV HAS -- WE CAME OUT LAST YEAR WITH CLIMATE ACTION
PLEDGES. WE SAID WE WOULD BE NET ZERO BY
2030. I THINK THAT COMMITMENT WAS
IMPORTANT. THE NEXT THING FOR ME WAS HOW
WE COMMUNICATE THAT INTERNALLY AND GET BY IN INTERNALLY
BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT TO EXPLAIN ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT DO
THAT. IT IS NOT JUST A NUMBER.
WE HAVE A LOT OF POWER AS A BROADCASTER TO INFLUENCE
BEHAVIOR SO WE CAN CHANGE BEHAVIOR FROM THE PUBLIC, FROM
VIEWERS. WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT HOW WE
SCHEDULE AND COMMISSION, WHAT PROGRAMS WE DO.
WE HAVE A WHOLE RAFT OF THOSE, INCLUDING NEXT WEEK BUT NOT
JUST FOR COP26. THE NEXT THING IS COMPREHENSIVE
DISCLOSURE. I AM A FAN OF THAT.
I THINK THE SAME WITH CLIMATE. COMPREHENSIVE DISCLOSURE IS
IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU CAN HOLD YOURSELF TO ACCOUNT BUT OTHERS
CAN HOLD YOU TO ACCOUNT.
WE ARE GOING TO SET OUR TEAM TARGETS ON CLIMATE ACTION AS WE
DO ON DIVERSITY AND INEQUALITY. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET
THOSE TARGETS RIGHT. IT IS EASY TO SAY WE ARE GOING
TO SET TARGETS AND THEN THINK WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN?
FRANCINE: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SETTING
THEM RIGHT, AMBITIOUS ENOUGH SO THEY GET DONE? CAROLYN:
THEY HAVE TO BE LINKED TO THE PLAN.
OUR STRATEGY INCLUDES CLIMATE ACTION AND IS PART OF OUR
OVERALL STRATEGY. IT IS TALKED ABOUT IN THE SAME
MEETINGS, IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENTS.
IT SHOULD NOT BE TOO BIG A STEP FOR US TO ACTUALLY INTEGRATE
THIS.
WE HAVE DONE THAT FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, SO WE USE THAT AS
A MODEL FOR CLIMATE TARGETS, BUT I THINK THOSE TARGETS HAVE
TO BE BASED ON SCIENCE AND HAVE TO BE STRETCHED BUT HAVE TO BE
ACHIEVABLE. EACH AREA HAS TO KNOW WHAT THEY
HAVE TO DO TO MAKE THOSE. TRAINING COMES INTO THAT.
I AM A FAN OF BLENDING TRAINING WITH REAL LIFE INTERACTIVITY
ABOUT IDEAS. I THINK MANDATORY TRAINING HAS
A PLACE. FRANCINE: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY TRAINING?
CAROLYN: TRAINING IS LIKE YOU WILL DO AN
ONLINE MODULE OR WORKSHOP. THE ONLINE MODULE IS FINE
BECAUSE IT CAN GIVE YOU AWARENESS OF THINGS YOU DO NOT
KNOW AND YOU DO NOT FEEL STUPID ABOUT ASKING THE QUESTION
BECAUSE YOU GET THE ANSWER. THAT IS FINE.
THERE IS A PLACE FOR THAT. I THINK THE THING THAT WORKS
BETTER IS DOING WORKSHOPS WHERE YOU GET IDEAS ABOUT HOW THEY
CAN CHANGE. I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE
WHERE THE SOAPS HAVE GOT TOGETHER TO AGREE STORYLINES
THAT THEY CAN DO SEPARATELY ABOUT CLIMATE ACTION IN THE
SOAPS. THAT WILL HAPPEN NATURALLY OVER
THE NEXT YEAR TO 18 MONTHS. THAT WAS THEIR IDEA.
AND DIESEL GENERATORS WE USE FOR OUTSIDE BROADCASTS.
THEY DECIDED THEY WERE NOT GOING TO USE THEM, THEY WERE
GOING TO TEST OTHER GENERATORS AND REDUCE THEIR CARBON
FOOTPRINTS. I THINK GETTING THOSE IDEAS IS
IMPORTANT. FRANCINE:
WE HAVE A CHIEF EXECUTIVES WHO SAY THIS IS WHAT WE PLEDGE AND
WANT TO DO. IF THERE IS NOTHING HAPPENING
AT THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL AT COP26, DO YOU THINK SOME CHIEF
EXECUTIVES WILL BE DISCOURAGED AND SAY I AM TRYING TO DO A LOT
FOR MY ORGANIZATION BUT IT IS AT THE WORLD LEADERS WHO CANNOT
GIVE ME ENOUGH SUPPORT. WHAT IS THE POINT OF ME TRYING
SO HARD? CAROLYN: YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH.
WE ARE WORKING WITH THE INDUSTRY.
WE ALL BELONG TO SOMETHING ABOUT SUSTAINABLE
ACCREDITATION, WHICH BLOOMBERG PROBABLY DO AS WELL.
IT IS A BRILLIANT SCHEME. WE WERE A FOUNDING PARTNER.
WE ARE NOW DOING AN INDEX FOR CARBON USAGE, WHICH ALL THE
INDUSTRY CAN USE. THAT IS VERY POWERFUL.
I THINK IT IS THE SAME. IT WOULD BE BAD AND I DO NOT
THINK CEOS WOULD DO THAT IN
THIS COUNTRY IF IT WERE A RESULT OF OTHER COUNTRIES'
AMBIVALENCE THAT THE U.K. WOULD STOP DOING WHAT IT IS
DOING. THE U.K. IS SETTING AMBITIOUS TARGETS.
I DO NOT THINK ANY OF US WOULD HAVE BELIEVED FIVE YEARS AGO
THE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE SET OUT IN THIS WAY AND THEY HAVE.
I HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED BY OUR GROUP WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF
CEOS AROUND THE TABLE AND SEVEN COMPANIES HAVE GALVANIZED TO DO
THIS ELECTRICAL VEHICLE FLEET ACCELERATOR BECAUSE THEY HAVE
MASSIVE FLEETS. THEY ARE TRYING TO SWITCH THEM
QUICKLY AWAY FROM DIESEL TO ELECTRIC.
THE POWER OF SEVEN COMPANIES COMING TOGETHER IS FANTASTIC TO
SEE AND I HAVE WITNESSED THAT. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD STOP
DOING ALL OF THAT. FRANCINE: WE TALK ABOUT COVID AND A
POSSIBLE LOCKDOWN. HAS THAT HAD AN IMPACT ON
ADVERTISERS?
CAROLYN: NOT AT THE MOMENT. THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF
UNDERLYING CONVERSATION. YOU SEE IT IN THE MEDIA A BIT.
I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT TO LOCK DOWN AND DOES
NOT WANT THE ECONOMY TO FREEZE AGAIN AND CERTAINLY FROM AN
ADVERTISING POINT OF VIEW WE HAVE NOT FELT THAT.
WHAT WE HAVE FELT IS SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.
THE CAR INDUSTRY HAS HAD TO STOP ADVERTISING FOR A TIME
BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GET ENOUGH