[Willow] I've always liked Spider-Man
but ever since seeing Into the Spider-Verse
I have a deeper appreciation for our web-slinging hero.
Something about Miles Morales
just resonates with me more
and I've struggled to put why into words.
But recently, I finally got around to watching the MCU Spider-Man movies with Tom Holland
and surprisingly,
this scene in Spider-Man: Homecoming helped me understand what it is about Miles I love
so much.
[Tony] "Okay, it's not working out.
I'm going to need the suit back."
[Peter] For how long
[Tony] Forever
[Willow] But it wasn't this scene alone, so first let's talk about Miles.
[Miles] Hey, I'm Miles
At first, I thought I was just biased towards Miles because of how amazing Spider-Verse is.
I mean, that would be completely understandable.
But on the other hand,
I relate a lot more with Peter Parker, especially growing up.
A nerdy white kid who gets bullied at school, struggling to fit in.
Feeling overly responsible for things and self-sacrificing to an unhealthy level.
-[Eddie from Actual Context] Peter Parker does such a good job beating himself up,
Doc Ock gets jealous.
-[Willow] Oh, hey Eddie
of the channel Actual Context
-[Eddie] Yeah, over on my channel
you and I just did a video about how Spider-Man's powers are ideal for someone with anxiety or trauma,
the link is below,
but my Eddie Tingle told me you’re working on more Spidey content?
-[Willow] It was actually digging into Miles additional powers for our video that got me thinking
about Spider-Man's powers more.
You know, his ability to camouflage himself, and his venom strike.
It was the first moment in watching Spider-Verse where I thought,
"Wow!
These are the perfect powers for someone who has experienced trauma."
Which just led me to thinking more about Spider-Man in general.
-[Eddie] I think about Spider-Man probably too much.
So let’s get into it.
[Spider Noir] Who are you again?
-[Peter B Parker] This is Miles.
And he's going to save the multiverse.
-[Miles] Yeah, man.
[Willow] I've only just started getting interested in comics from our discussions.
So hopefully, you don't mind helping me out in that area, Eddie?
-[Eddie] Yeah, of course.
Talking comics at people is my specialty.
-[Willow] So, if I understand correctly there are 4 versions of Miles' story.
-[Eddie] Yeah, his original comics took place in the Ultimate universe
and then Miles was brought into the main Marvel universe which is known as the 616.
Where all the heroes we know and love exist.
-[Willow] Then there's Into the Spider-Verse
and the latest game Spider-Man: Miles Morales.
-[Eddie] No mater which universe Miles is in.
His parents,
his Uncle Aaron,
Peter Parker
and his best friend Ganke all play an important role in Miles' story.
Though the role they play may change significantly between some versions.
In some stories we see the death of Peter Parker, the original Spider-Man
as a motivating factor in Miles feeling he should step up
and do something with his super powers.
But in the most recent versions of Miles' stories, Peter Parker is alive
and is a friend and mentor to Miles.
-[Willow] I love getting to see the dynamic between Peter and Miles.
I also find it interesting that something major like Peter Parker not dying
AND having him as a mentor doesn't fundamentally change who Miles is.
-[Eddie] That's true, Miles is just a kid and he's just trying to do his best.
He's struggling to live up to the expectations of being Spider-Man.
-[Willow] And he's never grappling with his powers or new identity entirely alone either.
Like in Spider-Verse, Miles had all the other Spider-People to help him become Spider-Man.
Especially Peter B.
And then at the end of the film,
after all the Spider People had returned to their own universes
we see Miles meet his best friend Ganke.
-[Eddie] Ganke is a crucial part of Miles’ story.
Miles told Ganke he was Spider-Man before he told anyone else,
and Ganke actually makes Miles’ web fluid for him,
based on Peter’s formula that Aunt May provided.
-[Willow] I love that the inclusion of Ganke means that there’s always someone Miles
can go to as Spider-Man.
I think we're ready to get back to that scene from Homecoming now.
Thanks so much for swinging by Eddie.
-[Eddie] Until next time.
Peace...
Love...
Refuge.
[Tony] "If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it."
[Willow] So what is it about this scene that told me anything about Miles?
You may have heard of Viktor Frankl.
That’s not a name from comics,
although it sounds like it could be a good comic name doesn’t it?
If you haven’t heard of him, there’s a good chance you’ve seen one of his quotes
thrown around before.
“In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning,
such as the meaning of a sacrifice.”
It's one of those inspirational quotes you see a lot with self-help books or grind culture.
The quote is from his most well known book Man’s Search for Meaning.
I think there is some truth to the quote.
There is value in accepting suffering may be unavoidable and focus on
WHY we’re doing something.
But the suffering has to be unavoidable.
Another quote by Viktor Frankl I don’t see as often is:
"To Suffer unnecessarily is masochistic rather than heroic."
There is nothing inherently good about suffering.
And it only makes sense to me that this also applies when we have power over someone else.
It can be tempting to use our power to force what we believe is the right decision.
But making someone else suffer isn’t a teaching tool.
It’s sadistic.
Not literally, at least not for most people.
[Doc Ock from Spider-verse] I, for one, can't wait to watch.
[Willow] When Tony Stark takes away the suit out of fear for Peter,
it may be well intentioned, but that doesn’t change the impact.
Without the suit, Peter is left in a far more dire situation than was necessary.
While it did serve as a challenge to overcome that proved to himself
he is more than just the suit.
If Tony Stark wanted to keep Peter safe, the best thing to do would have been to leave it.
Tony taking the suit was more about not wanting to feel responsible
if something happened to Peter.
It was probably obvious Tony Stark was in the wrong as soon as he said:
[Tony] God, I sound like my dad
[Willow] Where as the only thing Peter was wrong about was Tony Stark actually being
in the suit this time.
And Tony happening to really be there this one time doesn’t somehow prove Peter foolish.
It’s a nice moment in that it does show Tony cares to the audience,
but it doesn’t change what Peter is saying.
[Peter] Those weapons were out there and I tried to tell you about them.
But you didn't listen.
None of this would have happened if you had just listened to me
[Willow]The entire movie Peter has constantly tried to contact Tony and never got any sort
of sign that he’s being taken seriously.
In fact, he’s treated like a nuisance.
[Peter on phone] I'll call you back
[Happy] Feel free not to
[Willow]He has every reason to think that he’s not being listened to.
So, Peter did exactly what a hero should do.
And Tony knew this about Peter.
In fact, it’s why he recruited him in the first place.
[Peter] When you can do the things that I can and you don't
and then the bad things happen.
They happened because of you.
Peter never needed Tony as an authority figure over him.
He was going to do the right thing whether he had permission or not.
[THWIP sound]
[Peter] Don't tell Aunt May
[Tony] Alright, Spider-Man.
[Willow] What Peter needed was support and instead Tony hit Peter's greatest fear.
[Tony] Did you know that I was the only one who believed in you.
Everyone else said I was crazy to recruit a 14-year old kid
[Willow] But did going through all of this make Peter better?
I mean he overcame the challenge and learned he was more than the suit, right?
But I think this is the wrong question.
The question we should ask is "would Peter have grown without that challenge?"
And if the answer is yes, then going through all of this wasn't necessary.
We have seen no sign that Peter waivers when it comes to doing the right thing
so it feels safe to say he would still encounter dangerous situations to overcome.
And is there any reason to believe he couldn't have felt worthy of being Spider-Man
through being supported?
There is a concept in Psychology called Post-Traumatic Growth.
Which is basically when someone experiences adversity they may grow dramatically in response.
There's even skills that can be learned that increase the chance to experience Post-Traumatic Growth.
And I think that's important to know because we all experience traumatic things
at some point in our life.
But there's also a concept called Post-Ecstatic Growth.
Which also is about dramatic growth in response to an event, only a really positive event
instead of a hardship.
Given our culture, it's not surprising that there has been less research into Post-Ecstatic Growth
as it wasn't even considered until more recently.
But a recent meta analysis comparing Post-Traumatic Growth with Post-Ecstatic Growth
found that there's probably not much difference between the two.
And I think if you break down how growth happens after these events it makes a lot of sense.
It's more about our foundational beliefs being shaken and shattered
which allows us to form new world views and approaches.
So "Would Peter have grown without Tony taking his suit?"
Of course.
That's why Tony apologizes, because he knows he's wrong.
[Tony] Sorry I took your suit.
I mean you had it coming.
Actually it turns out it was the perfect sort of tough love moment that you needed, right?
To urge you on, right?
Wouldn't you think?
[Willow] Even if his ego does make him try to back peddle right after.
But often in life there will be people who won't give us that sorry or acknowledge
any harm done.
They may tell us "You should be glad it happened to you because it made you who you are".
But isn't that statement kind of ridiculous?
Like the statement is always true
in the sense that obviously everything that's happened to us helped form who we are.
We are the sum of our experiences and choices we’ve made.
Tony doesn't get credit for putting Peter in the situation.
Peter gets all the credit.
And if you have experienced something terrible and you've managed to survive
or to grow from that?
YOU get the credit.
And it’s okay to still be upset at the harm done to you.
Even if you can understand why someone did it.
You didn't grow because of trauma.
You grew in SPITE of it.
[Peter B] I love you!
I am so proud of you!
[Willow] So what does all of this have to do with Miles?
There is a lot of tragedy in Miles' stories, but there's also this sense of hope and joy.
And I'm not talking about being inspirational because most heroes do that.
There is a sense of connection and support.
Of being vulnerable.
Miles' story isn't just about a super individual.
It's about someone struggling to do their best who is held up by their friends and loved ones.
Because no matter who you are, you need people to support you
and remind you you're doing your best even when it doesn't feel like it.
ESPECIALLY when it doesn't feel like it.
You might think the MCU version of Peter is similar to Miles,
and I thought that at first too.
The most obvious thing being the inclusion of Ned,
Peter's friend who is similar to Ganke in that they're both tech wizards.
Not literally,
just they're really good with tech.
I mean ya never know, this is comics.
Another shift in the MCU is without a narrative focus on Peter's guilt over losing Uncle Ben,
we are given a bigger emphasis on Peter trying to live up to the expectation of being a hero.
Whether that's trying to impress Tony Stark or just worrying he can't live up to being
an Avenger.
[triumphant music plays]
[Tony / Iron-Man] Nice job, kid
-[Spider-Man] Thanks.
Well, I could have stuck the landing a little better
[Willow] The distinction can be found when we look at the 4 key factors in being able
to grow after traumatic events.
Cognitive Exploration
Deliberate Rumination
Low Experiential Avoidance
Strong social support system and outlets for expression
The first 2 traits both Peter and Miles clearly possess.
They regularly agonize over doing the right thing
and trying to live up to their ideal selves.
Low Experiential Avoidance also applies to both of them,
but much more so Peter.
As Miles tends to struggle more with anxiety.
Like when he first got his powers in the comics
he was scared so didn't use them for a long time.
But a strong social support system?
Peter never has this
and Miles always does.
It's why this train scene in Spider-Man 2 was so powerful.
Peter doesn't have a choice but to be vulnerable because he has nothing left here.
And for once he is given support.
Where as Miles always has someone there to help him back up.
Like in the Ultimate comics when Miles fought Venom,
he had to watch his mother die.
It was clearly not Miles' fault.
His mother had been hit by a stray cop bullet during the fight.
But he still blamed himself.
Ganke was there to remind him there's nothing he could have done
and that he was forgetting about all the lives he saved.
And in each version of Miles' story since
we have seen his social support system leaned into even more narratively.
As he's been brought into the main Marvel universe.
His parents now know he's Spider-Man and are supportive of it.
Even Peter Parker is alive and his friend.
In the MCU, Ned isn't really there as a support system when it comes to Peter being Spider-Man.
Yes, he's the guy in the chair,
but he's not really emotional or mental support.
Peter is someone who wants to keep all of that from people he cares about.
I think we see these core differences portrayed perfectly between Miles and Peter
in The Spiders chapter of the Generations comic series,
when Miles is sent back in time and gets to meet the original Spider-Man.
On the day Miles arrives,
Peter has just survived the iconic scene where he had a building dropped on him.
He's all alone in a room completely wiped and battered
worrying over whether Aunt May is going to die
when he finally receives the call she's going to pull through.
It's a day that encapsulates so well what being Spider-Man is like for Peter Parker.
Earlier in that same day,
Miles had gone to his own house and saw his younger self with his mother.
And witnesses one of the best things.
The moment where he met his best friend Ganke for the first time.
And I think the focus Miles' stories have on being vulnerable and having support,
we also see that we don't have to suffer.
We probably will, but it's not required.
And we can hope that generations after us will suffer less than we did.
We WANT things to be easier for others.
If you have struggled or are suffering now
I hope you are able to find a way to get through and process it in any way you can
to be who you want to be.
Sometimes things just suck.
There should be no pressure to make something more of that.
And you don't need to throw yourself into situations as some sort of test.
The world will find enough reasons to make us suffer.
Resilience can be useful, but a focus on grit for the sake of grit is for villains.
[Vulture] You know I gotta tell you Pete, I really really admire your grit
[Willow] Thanks for watching!
And remember, If you enjoyed this you'll love this video on Spider-Man over on Actual Context's channel.
I'm really proud of the work we put into it and grateful for the opportunity to work with Eddie
who is a dear friend.
Our patrons this week have chosen to spotlight Vegify.
Vegify is looking to make it easier to go vegan and run by our very own first patron
John Carmack.
I enjoyed the recipes on their channel and look forward to trying out the app
even though I struggle with various sensitivities
so I'm not sure I could manage going vegan fully myself.
I think it's great that someone is trying to make going vegan, which can feel very complicated,
much more accessible.
If you want to help pick the next creator we spotlight,
you can become a patron at patreon.com/QuestingRefuge
Take care of yourselves.
And remember,
you're not alone.