Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features, and debate from the
quirky world of cricket.
I'm Alison Mitchell and I'm in Birmingham this week ahead of the Commonwealth Games
because I will be calling the cricket.
It's women's T20 cricket making its debut at the games.
One of 20 different sports here.
And in fact, cricket and netball, are the only sports at this Games that don't have
male equivalent events alongside them.
There was men's 50-over cricket at the Kuala Lumpur Commonwealth Games back in 1998.
South Africa won gold there.
But this is women's cricket, it's the T20 and, chance for Australia to try and
added a Commonwealth gold to the 50-over and T20 titles that they already own.
Speaking of Aussies, very happy birthday, Jim Maxwell, to you.
Ali, thank you very much.
It's been one of those lovely days in the middle of winter in Sydney; 19 degrees, sunshine
and an opportunity to catch up with a few friends at a nice little golf club.
It's been drenched by all this rain, but we were there on the balcony enjoying a little
bit of repartee and some reminisce. So, it was good fun.
Hopefully, we get some cheer at Birmingham when everything starts to parade itself, particularly the cricket.
I'm Sunil Gupta for All India Radio here in New Delhi, once again.
Happy birthday, Jim and an interesting thing.
Despite India, winning the ODI series in the West Indies 3-0, cricket for once is off the
sports headlines because the big, big news as you might have read is about our star javelin
thrower Neeraj Chopra, who's the only Indian athlete to win gold in the Olympics in athletics
or track and field.
That is the news of the hour and the news of the week from India this week.
That's rare for cricket to be pipped off the news agenda.
I tell you what's pipping cricket and even competing with the Commonwealths over here
is the Lionesses and the England women's team in the final of the European Championship,
so that one at Wembley is certainly a biggie.
And it is taking place as the Commonwealth Games gets under way as well.
Good to have you with us, Sunil, and Happy birthday again, Jim.
But first on Stumped this week, we're going to hear the reasons why the reigning one-day
international world cricketer of the year in the women's game, Lizelle Lee, shocked everyone,
including her own team-mates, by quitting the international game in the middle of her
country's recent tour of England.
There has been much speculation about the reasons why ever since.
It means he misses the Commonwealth Games; an event where South Africa would have been
hoping and expecting a good showing.
They made the semi-finals of the last two World Cup events, but they are now coming
off the back of a dismal multi format series against England, where they lost all six white
ball games that they played.
They were playing not only without their captain, Dane van Niekerk, who was injured.
But also without Lee, one of the world's hardest hitting and most experienced batters.
In the days after her sudden retirement, a report emerged saying South Africa had threatened
to prevent Lee from playing in T20 leagues.
There was a suggestion from within Cricket South Africa that Lee was a disruptive influence in the dressing room.
That was followed by a media release from Cricket South Africa that sought to discredit both of those reports.
Well, Lee has decided to tell Stumped exactly why she retired.
We approached Cricket South Africa for comment and you'll hear their response at the end.
Here is Lizelle Lee then speaking to me from a temporary base in Bath in the UK where she
is staying with her wife and baby son, explaining the events that led to her quitting the international game, mid-tour.
I think it came as a bit of a shock to a lot of people.
I had it in the back of my head for a while, but I never thought I would do it in the middle
of a tour, but just before I came on tour, I had to do a re-testing, which was an official testing.
A fitness test?
Yep, basically, which I had to do back in North West.
At the time, we were at my parents' house back in Ermelo, so driving three and a half
hours that way and three and a half hours back just for a fitness test, I didn't want to do that.
So, basically they said they'll organise for me to do it with somebody in Ermelo at that
time, which was in the afternoon.
So they called her and set everything up and everything was fine.
It was basically just my weight and my skin folds.
So, when I got to the lady who had to do my skin folds, I told her I'm not going to do
my weight because I already did it in the morning and because it fluctuates and it's small margins.
I'm not going to do it there because if that's over, they're gonna send it back and I won't be eligible for selection to go to
England. They go 'Fine. You're coming on tour. Everything is fine'
When we got on tour, I think it was the second day, I did the skin folds and the weigh-in again.
They said the skin folds were down by two or something and my weight wasn't even close to where I thought it would be.
After the Test match, they called me in for a meeting, saying 'they don't understand what's wrong.
How can my weight be so different from where it was when I weighed it?'
During that time, they did call the lady where I did it and she said that I did not do my weight with her.
I did it at home, which is true.
Again, nothing happened for a while and then I think it was just a half an hour before we went to training.
I was all ready to go and got a message from our manager saying I had a meeting with him
and somebody from Cricket South Africa in the next five minutes.
They told me because of what's happened and that was an official testing, I didn't
do my weight with her as well and there's a difference, I'm not eligible for selection
anymore and that I have to go home immediately.
With that they will take away my no-objection certificate to participate in The Hundred and Big Bash.
So, I have to go back home, try and get that sorted and then they will give me my NOC.
What was going through my mind at the time was like I can't fly home now.
With my family and the baby, flying there for a few hours... I mean 11 hours,
it's a long journey and it just wasn't an option at the moment.
And financially, there would have been a big blow as well because it's a lot of money travelling
back and forth all the time, because we would have to come back for The Hundred again.
They were right to do that because our contracts say if you don't make the fitness, they can pull your NOC.
So, I called my agent and he's like: 'What do you want to do?'
And I was like: 'I'm going to retire, then.'
And he called the person that was with us in the meeting, saying: 'Listen, this is the choice she made.'
I think the same day or even the next day, we had a meeting, and they were really sad to see me go.
But if there's no other way then they would respect my decision.
So, there was no real thing about 'what can we do to make you stay?' Or anything like that. It was just:
'Okay, it's sad, but we respect your decision.'
And that's where you are at the moment.
So am I right in saying then it sounds like there were three things at play from Cricket
South Africa's point of view: That you didn't weigh yourself in the way that you were meant to;
But then your weight when it was measured by Cricket South Africa wasn't where it was meant to be;
And then the NOC issue came up, but that was within the contractual right of Cricket South Africa to do that.
What to you makes you fit for cricket?
Well, definitely not my weight.
I mean, I made the fitness physically, I did the running that I had to do.
So basically, I'm fit to play, and I told them 'you're dropping me because of the way
I look and how much I weigh.'
And they said: 'No, we're dropping you because you failed the fitness battery.'
I said: 'Yes, okay, but if you break the fitness battery down, why did I not make?
I made the fitness and running, but I didn't make my weight.
So, you're dropping me because of weight.'
So, as a woman that breaks me.
Honestly that is probably one of the toughest things to hear saying you're not being able
to play for a team because you weigh too much or whatever the case might be.
So, yeah, that was just... I spoke to Tanja about it so many times because at night, at home
I would sit in my bed crying because what am I going to do about my weight?
I've been struggling with this for so long.
Tanya being your wife.
Yes, sorry. Tanja, my wife.
Yes, I know what you're putting in your body and you have to train and everything, but
it's not always that easy.
When you do fitness tests and if the weight, as a standalone point is an issue, what support
have you been given and what support is there to then go and try and bring it to the level
of Cricket South Africa wants?
I never got any support from CSA with that.
I mean, they never asked me what do you need?
What can we do to help you to lose weight?
That's something I've always done on my own.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's what you eat, it's training and stuff.
It's tough, and emotionally it's breaking me down
and I think I just got to the point of saying: 'Listen,
so, you re not thinking about my cricket skills.
You're not thinking that I made the actual running fitness.
You're just thinking about my weight and not picking me then.'
So emotionally, that is just so draining, and I just couldn't do it any more.
So do you feel that you are cricket fit?
You are where you would want to be in terms of your skills, in terms of everything else?
You can still function well as an international cricketer with your parameters that you are at right now?
Look, skills wise, I'm not gonna lose out because of fitness.
I will never lose out because of fitness.
I can still do the job.
Yes, I don't look the way I need to look the way I need to look and I know that.
That's interesting.
Sorry to interrupt, but that's interesting in itself, you say you don't look the way
you need to look.
As a sport, is it right that athletes need to look a certain way, or should it just be
about the way you can perform, whatever you actually look like?
Is that a function of professionalism?
Do you feel that the game is starting to judge its athletes, its cricketers on the way they
look on the field?
It feels like that. I don't think it should be, but it feels like it from a personal point of view.
Personally, I know I don't look like an athlete, but that doesn't mean I can't do my job.
I don't even look at myself in the mirror anymore because I don't like the way I look.
That just comes along because every time in camp, it's always about my weight.
Like I said, emotionally it just breaks a person down.
Has there ever been a time when you have felt the need to lose weight quickly say, or in
any way that might not have been healthy for you?
Or do you worry that others might feel that way as well?
I know a few people have felt that way before and yes, it has crossed my mind.
I actually spoke to our team doctor before they dropped me in Ireland, and I was like
what do you want me to do? Put my finger in my mouth before testing?
So, yeah, it definitely crossed my mind so many times because how do you lose weight
quickly without it not being healthy... It can't be healthy, there's just no way.
So not eating comes to mind.
I've tried that, but obviously you need to eat because you have so much training to do
And like I've said, this has been coming for a few years now and I think this past year
just made it so much worse.
I think the other thing, that they don't always understand is especially when you're on tour,
you don't have the facilities you have at home.
So, you'd normally watch... what are you going to eat?
You're gonna eat food that is not healthy and we're on tour a lot.
During the whole year, I would say 90% of my time I'm not at home.
Could you see any way back into the international fold from here?
To be honest, at the moment as things stand, no.
I do think management needs to be changed.
A few people need to change and there has to be fairness across the board and I don't
think that will change overnight, so no, not at this moment.
Lizelle, appreciate you talking and sharing.
Good luck, certainly for The Hundred and you are a huge miss in international cricket,
but we wish you all the best going forward and with your family as well.
Thank you. Thank you for having me, and thank you for letting me tell my story. I really appreciate it.
That was former South Africa batter Lizelle Lee, who walked away from the international
game in the middle of South Africa's tour of England ahead of the Commonwealth Games.
She departs as the country's leading run scorer in international T20s and their second highest
run scorer in ODIs.
We did contact Cricket South Africa and they have confirmed that the reason Lee was declared
ineligible for the matches against England was for failing to meet their workload and
fitness standard, something which you heard Lizelle has taken responsibility for, and
have confirmed that was the reason why they exercised their right to not grant an NOC
- that's a no-objection certificate - which would have meant that she wouldn't have been
able to take part in leagues around the world until she'd met and then maintained those
standards that CSA set out.
We understand that Lee was told in writing that the Cricket South Africa medical team
would get in touch about the support to be provided to help with a programme aimed at
helping her meet those fitness standards.
There has been no comment from them, however, on Lee's assertion of double standards in
another player had failed fitness tests but hasn't to Lee's knowledge to date had any
NOC revoked.
So quite a bit there, Jim and Sunil.
First of all, it did strike me when she used that word 'I don't look the way I am I meant to look.'
Do cricketers need to look a certain way?
We are not privy to the exact weight parameters, or how that is calculated or what Cricket
South Africa say what benchmarks they're setting.
But this way that cricketers have to look a certain way?
There seems to be some communication issue between Lizelle and the South African administration,
because they haven't clearly had a robust enough discussion about all this.
She shouldn't be discriminated against because of her avoir du pois.
But it's clear that the South Africans have put out a bit of a message there that you
need to be a little bit thinner, as confusing as the discussion has been.
Sunil, she's just been signed for Hobart Hurricanes in the WBBL.
Notably when you play domestic cricket at that level, you don't go through those fitness
parameters, and she might well have a barnstorming season for them as well.
She was the ODI player of the year in 2021, admittedly she did have a poor World Cup at
the start of this year in New Zealand, but to what extent do you think that the way a
cricketer looks or the weight impacts on performance, or should a player just simply be judged on form?
What are you actually doing in the middle?
Yeah, well, they're two or three things about this.
I was listening very closely.
I've read the transcript and there's a little bit of justification of where she is.
She realises she did some things that were not quite right.
Let me read out something to you, which you might find interesting.
This was regarding the famous or infamous yo-yo test.
This was since Virat Kohli became the captain of India in all three formats.
I think that's one of the keys we're talking about you know Colin Milburn and Colin Carberry
and they were only playing Test cricket at that time, really.
The parameters for selection have changed.
The team management has now decided that player selected in the Indian squad only if he passes,
something called a yo-yo test.
Even if the India A players are selected on this basis, then if they're not good enough
to pass the yo-yo test, they will not be in the Indian squad.
Now the same thing happened and guess who lost out in the initial phases: Yuvraj Singh,
Mohammad Shami, Washington Sundar.
We're talking big names who did not pass the yo-yo test.
Now, if that is mandated, then that is mandated.
I think that there are certain things that she needs to look at.
I think she understands that.
Right now, obviously you feel bad as a player.
Somebody who's the ODI cricketer of the year, somebody who's been a part of
the team since 2013.
I certainly felt as if the weight is something that Lizelle has struggled with throughout
a number of years, and I think possibly more concerning that her assertion that she hasn't
felt adequately supported enough in managing that.
That might be to do with South Africa's resources as well.
But this question of I guess being fit for cricket and the parameters by which fitness
is viewed and measured and the women's game being more professional as well.
We wish her all the best in her future endeavours.
And that is all we have time for on this week's Stumped.
So, I'll say thank you to Jim Maxwell and to Sunil Gupta and of course to you all for
listening and we'll see you again next week. Take care. Bye bye.