Welcome to The Daily Show,
and congratulations on a book that...
I think takes us behind the scenes
of one of the biggest stories
that has ever hit any country,
and that is the story of Harvey Weinstein.
You-you... you wrote the book,
and you titled it She Said,
which is oftentimes what people say as,
"Oh, this is he shed... he said, she said.
We can't figure it out."
Why use that title?
Well, what we really wanted to do
was bring you with us on this investigation.
The events of #MeToo have come to mean so much
to so many people.
But we can finally tell you
the truth of what happened behind the scenes.
We want you there with us
during those first conversations with the actresses
as they're very nervous-- even though these are some
of the most famous women in the world--
-to tell us their stories. -NOAH: Mm-hmm.
But there are actually some "hes" in She Said, as well.
For example, we want you to meet
the kind of Deep Throat of the Weinstein investigation,
Harvey Weinstein's own accountant,
who had worked for him for 30 years.
Wow. Telling the stories of what happened in that world
seems like it would be extremely risky
for anyone who's involved in that world,
because when the Harvey Weinstein stories broke,
when you broke it, it-it was...
it was so intense, like, how hard he worked
to prevent anybody from speaking out against him.
So how do you even begin to convince somebody to speak up
when they're up against Harvey Weinstein?
Well, there were so many reasons for these women not to speak up
and not go on the record.
And one of the cases that we made to them was,
"We can't change what's happened to you in the past,
"but if you work with us
"and we are able to publish the truth,
we might be able to protect other people from getting hurt."
Right, other people in the future from getting hurt.
-Exactly. -'Cause Harvey's stories span decades.
I mean, you have people who are saying,
"This-this was a big part of my life.
This is what Harvey Weinstein did to me."
Sexual allegations, though, we've learned,
remain, you know, in this world where people say,
"Oh, it's murky and, you know, women, men,
versus, this, that. Nobody knows for certain."
You are journalists.
You're reporting on this story,
but you still have to investigate
the women who have come forward with these stories.
Was there a conflict in-in how you...
how you report on that, or is there...
is there something that you just have to click into your mind
and go like, "I'm investigating the story and that's that"?
Well, what we were looking for was evidence.
This had all been in the realm of hearsay,
and part of what we want people to see in this story
is that facts really can have social impact
-when they're carefully gathered. -NOAH: Mm-hmm.
So, part of what we're explaining here is
what are secret settlements.
How did we find the trail of how Harvey Weinstein paid off women
for these allegations for many years?
What other kinds of manipulation did he use
to, essentially, make these women's stories disappear?
When you look at... the obscuring of the truth,
when you look at how Harvey Weinstein dis it-- did it,
does it speak to a larger issue in society?
You know? Because everyone talks about Harvey Weinstein.
They go, like, "Oh, that's the worst."
But is this something that we need to be looking at
on a-- on a larger level?
Are there more Harveys out there?
Or is society a Harvey Weinstein?
Oh, this story goes way beyond Harvey Weinstein.
And with additional reporting, we were really able to...
This really turned into an X-ray of abuse of power.
I mean, we were able to pull the pur-- curtain back
on the machinery that was in place to silence women
-and cover Weinstein's tracks. -Right.
We push into the question of complicity--
the individuals and institutions that got glimpses h--
of his wrongdoing and basically looked the other way.
So these are questions that apply
to workplaces across the country,
-to individuals and colleagues. -Right.
And... (stammers) and it really does speak
to just a broader abuse of power.
It really is an interesting conversation about power.
Because, in the book, you-you expose women
who helped Harvey Weinstein maintain,
you know, his-his secrecy in doing these things.
That-that, I mean, must be,
you know, I think, heart-wrenching,
not just as a journalist but as a woman as well--
finding out how many women
helped Harvey Weinstein do what he does.
This story is filled with surprises
about who helped and who hindered.
And you're right. Lisa Bloom,
a famous feminist attorney who's on TV all the time,
has represented victims in very high-profile cases,
actually crossed lines to help Harvey Weinstein,
and she crossed to the other side, basically.
And in the book, we reproduce in full a memo
in which she, in her own hand, lays out--
it's a, kind of, audition job memo for Harvey Weinstein.
Um, what she's saying to him is--
They're worried about the Rose McGowan allegation
-that came very early on. -Right.
A tweet that had named Harvey Weinstein.
And Lisa Bloom, this famous feminist, is saying,
"I will manipulate on your behalf.
"I will smear on your behalf.
And here's exactly how I'm going to do it."
It's-it's a really heart-wrenching story
when you read through it.
But at the same time, it feels like
it ends in a hopeful place, which...
I don't know if I'm interpreting the book correctly.
Is-is that what you were trying to achieve?
Well, we actually... The-the last bit of...
The-the last thing we did in the course of our reporting
was a pretty extraordinary group interview.
This fall will mark
the three-year anniversary of the Access Hollywood tape...
-Mm-hmm. -...uh, the two-year anniversary
of the Weinstein story,
and the one-year anniversary of Christine Blasey Ford,
uh, testifying about Brett Kavanaugh.
We brought together in one room women who were central
-in all three of those stories... -Right.
...that helped shift the culture.
And we asked them, "What was it like on the other side?"
And it was clear that for all of these women,
this had been a transforming experience.
And so, the... And there...
It was clear that it wasn't...
Nobody could be sure what was gonna happen next
and where the #MeToo movement was headed.
But there was a consensus that by speaking up,
they'd all help bring about change.
There's no doubt that the #MeToo movement
has affected America forever,
but has it actually changed society?
Have you noticed through your journalism,
through your reporting, maybe even your personal experiences
that there's actually been a change
in-in what happens in the world?
Oh, well, what's so confounding is that everything has changed,
and nothing has changed.
On the one hand, we've see this sort of wave of mass firings.
We've seen corporations take this more seriously.
On the other hand, we've seen that the basic structures
and systems are still in place.
And it's not clear that we have yet found a way
to solve this problem.
But what we can contribute as journalists is...
-You can't solve a problem you can't see. -Right.
And for a long time, nobody saw this problem fully.
And so, that's our job-- to help everybody see it.
What do you hope people will get from the book?
What I hope people will get from the book is the idea
that stories matter.
You know, when Megan just described
all of these diverse women we had
in this room last January
talking about the experiences of coming forward,
it was everybody from Gwyneth Paltrow
to a McDonald's worker to Christine Blasey Ford.
Uh, and what I...
A woman who had come forward about Trump many years earlier--
Rachel Crooks.
And what I think they all saw is that these personal,
intimate stories from their pasts--
once they shared them with other people,
they had consequence
beyond what they ever could have imagined.
Oh. Coming together to try and fix what's happened in the past.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
It's an amazing book. I hope everybody reads it.
And, uh, hopefully,
the happy ending will, uh... will come true.
-Thank you so much for being on the show. -Thank you.
Thanks for having us.
She Said is available now.
A powerful story you have to read.
Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey, everybody.