Air Traffic Control versus Pilots
Nobody cleared you through the bravo but me.
Then clear me through.
No.
Yes.
****
Coming up!
Hey, 74 crew! Welcome back!
If you don't know me, my name is Kelsey.
I'm a 747 pilot.
My channel 74 gear is all about aviation.
After the first Air Traffic Control versus Pilots video did so well
I got a bunch of messages from people asking
if I could explain other interactions between pilots and Air Traffic Control.
All right!
Let's get into it.
3927 declaring an emergency turning around direct Kahului airport
N3927 enter left base runway five.
I need vectors right now 927.
3927 left turn direct maui VORTAC
I need a vector sir 927
927 turn the left heading 140
Left 140 927
927 go ahead with the nature of your emergency
I'm in a spiral descent in rain and turbulence 927
Okay so you're not experiencing mechanical, it's weather-related
That's affirmative 927. Give me that vector one more time
3927 fly heading 090
Left turn 090. You want it left or right?
N3927 fly heading 090 left turn
090 left turn, we're at 4000' in a hard descent 927
For those of you that aren't pilots,
there's a lot of terminology being used here
so I wanna clear them up for you very quickly.
Declaring an emergency.
3927 declaring an emergency
It usually means you have a major problem
and they're going to give you a bunch of attention
to help you get down on the ground safely.
Left base.
N3927 enter left base runway five.
This just means the direction of coming on the airport.
If you're on a left base or a right base,
it just means it's the final turn before you turn inbound.
You're 90 degrees from the landing direction of the runway.
So you can be on a left base or a right base.
But it just means you have one more turn and then you're lined up to land.
Vectors.
I need a vector, sir.
this means you're asking Air Traffic Control
to give you a heading, a certain direction,
so if you need to fly East, you would get a heading of 090
Vortac
Direct maui VORTAC
Imagine you lived on this massive farm
and your house was on the middle of that massive farm.
And you were out 30 minutes away.
And the instructor said: "Go directly to your house".
That would be kind of like using a Vortac.
And if you had something on your plane that
gave you the heading that you needed to go
to get to your house
that would basically be what a Vortac is.
It just gives you a direction to fly towards something.
A lot of times that Vortac might be in the middle of an airport.
So if you have it in the middle of the airport
and you're a little bit lost, you could say:
"I need to go directly to that Vortac"
and that will, at least, get you going towards the airport.
Or if you're on that big farm, you go directly towards your house.
It's the same concept.
I'm guessing from some of the things that this pilot has said so far
that they're not a very experienced pilot.
But it's always better to play it safe and get back on the ground.
Than to get way outside your comfort zone
and outside what you think your capabilities
or your plane's capabilities are to handle what's out there.
Some of the things that he said led me to believe
he's an inexperienced pilot like this one.
I'm in a spiral descent in rain and turbulence 927
If you fly into a rainstorm and you want to get out of it,
you'd be better, as you hit it, to just turn around and going away from it.
But what he's doing is spiraling down underneath the rainstorm.
That doesn't make any sense.
If you fly into something that you don't want to be in,
the best thing to do is do a 180.
Go back the other way.
Not circle down beneath it.
And then he said this:
We're at 4000 feet in a hard descent 927.
If you've been on the channel a long time,
you know on that Hollywood versus Reality that I did on "Air Force One",
the guy said they were coming in "Red hot".
That's kind of like saying: "We're in a hard descent at 4,000 feet"
To me, a hard descent is doing 10,000 feet a minute or more.
That to me, is a hard descent.
He's at 4,000 feet
which means if he was in a hard descent, he's going to be hitting the water
in less than 30 seconds.
I'm guessing that he was probably at a 1,000
or maybe 1,500 feet a minute in his descent.
And to his experience, that may have felt like a hard descent.
But Air Traffic Control can see exactly where you're at,
and the speed that you're descending.
You don't need to tell them what type of hard descent you're in.
So based off of those few things that he said
and everything that's going on so far,
I'm guessing that he's an amateur pilot which is totally fine.
You got to learn somehow,
and the only way to learn is to go out there and do it.
Obviously, he must have enough experience
to be able ready to fly into the clouds
and maybe he challenged himself.
He realized he got in over his head
He said: "Okay, I'm way over my head.
Let me get out of this".
I'm not here to bash him
or talk about what he did wrong here but
I just want to kind of lay it out
so we know what we're dealing with.
And I think what we're dealing with is a pilot that's probably new
or definitely an amateur in the world of aviation.
All right, let's see the next part of this video.
N3927 affirmative 4000 fly heading 090
090 3927
N3927 ATIS information is Charlie and I assume
you want to do the ILS approach runway 2
I need vectors for a visual 927
N3927 the Kahului airport 2 o'clock 10 miles the Kahului airport insight
Negative contact 927
N3927 report the Kahuliui in sight when able
Wilco 927
N3927 advice you have information Charlie
Working on Charlie 927
HCF approach 927
N3927 go ahead
Airport in sight off my 3 o'clock
there are some clouds between us but I currently have the beacon insight
N3927 cleared visual approach runway two enter right downwind
A few more quick explanations here.
He says he has information Charlie.
Working on Charlie 927
About every hour, the weather at the airport updates.
If the weather's really bad, it might update quicker.
But instead of saying: "Do you have the weather from 30 minutes ago?"
They give each update a name.
So you have Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on.
So he is saying: "Do you have information Charlie?"
Do you have the current weather that's happening over the airport right now.
The next thing to know, and this is important for later on in the video,
is the pilot says he doesn't want to do the ILS. He wants to do the visual.
I need vectors for a visual 927
If you aren't familiar with what an ILS is,
it's the way that pilots fly through clouds to land in an airport.
Instrument Landing System.
I made a video about it a while back.
It's kind of boring to be honest with you but
imagine it's the tools that we use to fly through the clouds.
If you've ever flown through the clouds and then
you come out like a few hundred feet off the ground,
that's what we're using to get down onto the ground.
He's saying: "No, no. I don't want that.
Just get me to the airport. I'll see it and I'll go and land".
Right after this, is when things start to heat up.
Remember, he said he wanted a visual approach to the runway there,
and he says now that he has the airport at his three o'clock.
Which if you think about it like a clock, it means it's off his right-hand side.
And so he's saying: "I see the airport"
and earlier he requested a visual for landing at that airport.
Also it's important to remember
that the controller offered him to use an ILS
to fly through that approach through the clouds.
The controller offered him that and he said: "No, no. I want the visual"
All right. Listen to this part.
That's not helping me very much.
Give me a vector give me an altitude to fly and I'll fly it 927
Ya. You know what I don't understand
You told me you got the airport in sight and now
you're asking me for vectors. Which one is it?
I declared an emergency. I told you I had got the beacon insight
and there's clouds between us so it's intermittent
give me a vector give me an altitude 927
Do you have the airport inside or not? Which one is it?
I don't anymore
Okay 3927 cancel your approach clearance, maintain 4000 feet turn right heading 140
Right 140, four thousand feet 927.
3927 check your altitude. I'm showing 37000 feet that's
an incorrect altitude. Maintain four thousand feet
You can hear that the controller is now getting irritated
because the pilot is basically giving him mixed signals.
He's saying: "I want a visual approach. I see the airport".
"Okay, now I want you to give me vectors to get there"
So he's getting a little bit irritated now.
If you tell a controller that you want a
visual approach and that you see the airport,
that tells the controller: "I'm going to go land at that airport. I can see it"
Listen to what happens next.
I'm climbing to 4000 right now
Listen I declared the emergency. Take a deep breath get me out of it.
N3927 maintain 4000 feet
Maintaining 4000 927
N3927 let me know if you see the airport 1 o'clock seven miles
Wilco, thank you sir
N3927 Roger
927 with the airport in sight
Be advised there are layers of clouds both above and below my altitude, 927.
Him saying "Listen", when he says that
Listen I declared the emergency.
If you've had a girlfriend and you're
saying: "Hey! Stop being crazy and calm down"
It's kind of like that.
The fact that he's telling the controller that
he has clouds above him is totally irrelevant.
It doesn't matter. You're not going up, you're going down.
So, he's saying you have clouds below you. It doesn't matter.
You see the airport or you don't see the airport?
If you're ever in this situation and you tell
the controller that you have the airport,
they're going to expect that it's over to
you now to get yourself down on that runway.
So if you don't feel comfortable to do that, then don't do that.
I've had it in a 747 where it's a very clear
day, calm, beautiful, not a lot of traffic,
and the controller will tell you:
"Hey! The airport's right there at one o'clock. Do you see it?"
And they want to clear you for a visual approach there.
I've had pilots say:
"No, I don't want to be cleared for the visual". We don't say that
but you just say: "No, I don't see the runway"
and what that means is under the controller's
responsibility to get you lined up
lower and closer to the runway until you see it.
Once that you say: "Yes, I see the airport"
They're kind of hands-off. It's over to you.
So they're kind of passing that responsibility onto you.
If the pilots don't feel comfortable or don't want the responsibility of it,
then they say: "No, I don't see it"
even if they do see it, they say "No, I don't see it"
and then the controller goes: "Okay, I'll get you lower and closer to the airport
until you do see it".
If he told the controller: "I need your help.
Get me a little bit lower. Get me a little bit closer.
I'm a little bit nervous and flustered."
I'm sure that the controller would have done everything to help him out.
Instead, he's giving a little bit of a bad attitude,
and then in return, you can hear the attitude
that the controller is giving back to him like:
"You're not maintaining the proper altitude"
That's what's gonna happen.
So there's really no reason for him to flex on that controller
and the controller's obviously irritated.
I mean. They're in Hawaii.
Relax, bro.
All right! Let's see the next video.
For this next video, it's important to
understand something about the terminology.
In aviation, the whole world is covered in different types of airspace.
There's Alpha airspace and Bravo airspace and Charlie airspace.
But this Bravo airspace is what they're
going to talk about in this next clip here.
Bravo airspace is the airspace that's around a major airport
and your typical small little pilot usually can't come into that airspace.
Because there's big jets that are in there, we're flying fast,
and we can't have a small Cessna crossing in the
middle or messing up when you got 400 people on board.
So they kind of have this sectioned off
airspace for the big boys to come in and out.
That's Bravo airspace.
This doesn't mean that you can never go through Bravo airspace
because it's something that you have to do as you go through flight school.
Now, he's going to fly into Las Vegas Bravo airspace.
Now, I did my private pilot flying out in Vegas.
That airspace, they usually don't let people go into it.
I got to go through it once.
I remember it like it was yesterday.
I was so excited hearing all the planes talking,
and all the big jets and all the airliners going in there and I was like:
"Oh my gosh! One day I'm going to be able to do that"
but I know because I asked, I don't know, 30 times
and I only got permission to go through one time.
I know that they don't let a lot of planes go through there.
So listen up. This guy goes into the Bravo airspace without permission.
1NR I need you outside of the bravo
Negative
Negative what?
I'm inside
You were not giving a clearance through the bravo. 1NR exit the bravo immediately
I've been talking to you the whole time. That's the whole point of talking to you
You have to have a bravo clearance. You have to request a bravo clearance
I requested a bravo clearance about 15 miles ago
Nobody cleared you through the bravo but me
Then clear me through
No
Yes
****
She's being an as... That's not appropriate language
Southwest 779 traffic 12 o'clock 4 miles it's
a Cessna Centurion descending out of 4700
inside the bravo without a clearance
Okay we're looking Southwest 779
I've asked for a clearance multiple times
N1NR I've told you to remain outside the bravo
1NR possible pilot deviation advice you contact Las Vegas approach at
I'll give you the number when you're ready to copy.
Not ready to copy, I'm flying.
1NR Henderson tower
Henderson tower 1NR
This is what entitlement sounds like when it comes to aviation.
This guy felt like because he requested permission,
he was now cleared to go into it even though he wasn't granted permission.
She actually starts to roast him a little bit by mentioning
that he's in that airspace without permission.
And a normal pilot would say: "Oh, man! I really messed up"
and changed his attitude.
But not this guy.
Now, as he got into this airspace, had he said: "Oh! ma'am.
I misunderstood. I thought it was cleared into this airspace"
"I'm heading this heading and getting out of the airspace"
"I apologize. I misunderstood".
Had he said something like that?
It probably wouldn't have been too big of a deal.
He may have gotten violated but it wouldn't have made it onto this series,
and he would have probably gone into not a lot of trouble.
People make mistakes, pilots make mistakes. It's part of life.
But instead what he does is he starts being a jerk.
It's kind of like being a jerk after you've gotten pulled over by the police.
Being a jerk to your cop is never going to get you out of the ticket.
It's just going to make things worse which is what's happened here.
You heard her say: "I have a number for you to copy".
I'll give you the number when you're ready to copy.
If you fly in aviation long enough, you'll end up hearing this.
It's something you never want to hear as a pilot.
You never want to get told there's a number for you to call
because it means you messed up so bad
that they don't want to have the conversation over the radio.
They want to have it over the phone
It's never good.
One of the worst ones I remember hearing
I was flying during the inauguration in 2016.
I was flying in and out of DC all the time.
And I heard on a frequency that we listened to,
Guard.
I heard on that frequency that a guy from the Air Force had called this plane,
and said in this very stern voice that is not nearly
as nice as your typical Air Traffic controller:
"You need to exit this airspace immediately"
And then he was given a number to call.
So I knew right there, they were going to be in a lot of trouble.
You never want to get a phone number to call.
And if you get a phone number to call, you probably shouldn't say like:
"No, I don't want to copy it down".
Again, that's not going to help.
This is all going to get recorded and that they escalated,
now you're going to be sitting with the FAA,
or whoever the governing body is of that country.
It's not going to work out well for you.
At the end of the day, you need to realize that flying is a privilege.
Whether you're flying a 747 or a Cessna 152 or anything in between,
it's a privilege.
It's not a right.
Asking for something you may get it, you may not get it.
But if you don't get what you want throwing a temper tantrum
is probably not gonna help you get there.
Okay, let's see the next video.
This one's funny.
Right behind that Lufthansa 747 once they...
He exits the alleyway there. We'll be able to
make a right turn and head into the gate area.
Thank you for remaining seated until I will turn
off the seat belt sign once we park at the gate.
Until that time, please remain seated.
Again welcome to New York, it's a beautiful
evening here about 70 degrees right now.
Let the abuse start. Come on! You can't let him get away with that.
Nice! Welcome to New York.
Welcome to New York. Thank you.
What was the temperature again?
Where's our gate?
Flight attendants always would ask me to make an announcement to the passengers
if we were delayed in getting into our gate
and tell people to stay in their seats and keep their seat belts on.
Because they would make the announcement and people didn't always listen to them.
So I would always be fine: "Yeah, I'll make an announcement".
I'll tell them to stay in their seats I don't have a problem with that,
and they will listen to the pilots more than
they will listen to the flight attendants
which is annoying but
this is the world that we live in.
What happens is that up there you've seen on the flight deck,
there's a lot of different buttons up there.
And sometimes you hit one button,
and you hit the wrong button.
One to make a PA. Make an announcement to the back
but you hit the wrong frequency,
and you transmit or you don't hit the button hard enough
and you're transmitting talking to Air Traffic Control ground frequency
at I'm guessing JFK.
Which is what it sounds like here.
He meant to be making that announcement to the back to all the passengers
but he made it there and of course, JFK being JFK.
They weren't going to let them get away with that
and so they instead of roasting them themselves,
they let all the pilots roast them.
Now pilots love roasting other pilots because we have all done that.
I've transmitted on the wrong frequency,
I've transmitted on Guard an announcement I mean,
I just... I don't know. A week ago, heard a guy coming in, he was on a corporate jet
and he was on Guard.
Guard is a frequency
121.5
that we listen to and monitor in the case of an emergency.
You can hear the planes that are around you.
Air Traffic Control can reach you there. It's a
frequency that I've talked about in other videos but
it's something that we're always listening to on top of the main frequency
that we're talking Air Traffic Control with.
It's just a monitor frequency.
This pilot as he's coming in is flying a corporate
jet and I don't know who he's got on there
but obviously there's somebody very important because he says:
Hey! Calls up on the Guard frequency
Meaning to call the people in the private
area of the airport that handles private jets,
meaning to call them.
He calls up these people on Guard and says:
"Hey listen. Our guy's coming in.
Make sure the cars are ready. It has to be ready or they're gonna be pissed."
And I hear one of the pilots get on there and go:
"Don't worry, Sir. The car will be waiting for you as soon as you land".
He's like: "Great, thanks! Appreciate it".
And I thought: "I don't know who he's got in that plane"
but instead of letting him think that he just called Guard,
he now thinks he spoke to somebody there
and that's just kind of who pilots are.
We're for children.
If you enjoy me explaining these Air Traffic Control videos,
you'll probably enjoy me explaining these aviation videos.
If you want to see one of those, I put a link to it right here.
If you want to see me explaining some
Hollywood videos, what's real and what's not
I'll put a link to that video up here.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Until then,
keep the blue side up.