[MUSIC PLAYING]
KELSEY ALPAIO: I actually wanted to be
a professional photographer when I was growing up.
I had the DSLR slung around my shoulder.
I was taking pictures of my friends.
I even had a photography blog on Tumblr.
But I decided to go into something easier.
Writing.
I always wondered what it was like to be
a professional photographer.
Is it as challenging as I always imagined it is?
It seems like an absolute hustle,
but how do these professional photographers go out
there, make money, and get their photography out in the world?
What is the job of being a photographer really like?
RAVEN B. VARONA: I love making people feel good when they
see themselves in my photos.
I love the confidence boost I see from people.
I love when they light up.
KELSEY ALPAIO: That's Raven B. Varona.
She's a photographer that specializes
in portraits and concerts.
When I saw Raven's Instagram, I was blown away.
I just saw all of these pictures of, like,
Beyonce and Jay-Z and John Legend,
and I was like, oh my gosh.
This person just gets to spend their days
photographing these legends.
RAVEN B. VARONA: I would define my work as intimate.
I feel like it's intimate.
I feel like it's bold.
There is a feminine perspective to it
that is very personal to me.
I would overall say that when you look at my work,
you can tell that I have a relationship with my subject,
and I want you to feel that same relationship.
KELSEY ALPAIO: So let's look deeper
behind her amazing photography.
I really want to know, how did she start?
RAVEN B. VARONA: When I first started and I picked it up,
I was, like, in my late teens, and it was just a hobby.
I liked photographing my friends.
I liked photographing parties, things we were doing.
And then I started getting, like--
I started going to, like, little underground shows, concerts,
things in the city because I'm born and raised in New York.
And then I started getting asked to do, like, little events
here and there.
This is, like, all in the span between, like, 20 and 25.
So I was doing photography on the side as a hobby
but also as, like, a side gig, and then I
had, like, a day job.
And it was mostly, like, music, street-style stuff, portraits.
It was a little mix of everything,
but it was just basically what my environment was.
And then at 25, I was like, OK, well, I've been doing this,
like, as a side hustle for five years.
It seems like it's picking up.
I was starting to get asked to, like, shoot more events.
I was like, maybe I should just go into it all in.
And so I quit my day job, and I went freelance.
KELSEY ALPAIO: How do you get permission to,
like, go into a concert venue with a camera?
I've always wondered that.
RAVEN B. VARONA: You either sneak in your camera,
but you have no access, and you shoot from the crowd.
You get permission from the set venue itself,
so you're shooting for the venue.
You can be shooting for the set artist,
so you get the pass from the artist, which pretty much will
allow you full access to document the artist, the show,
be in the pit, be anywhere you want.
Or you get, like, a media pass where
there are some places that are like,
oh, we'll let you shoot if you're shooting for Vibe
or you're shooting for XXL or you're shooting for Complex.
I mean, in my early days, there were days
that I, like, snuck into places, brought my camera in.
Like, Made in America, I didn't have a pass.
I mean, I had, like, a ticket, but I didn't have a pass,
so I shot from the crowd, and I just had, like, a zoom lens.
A lot of it is, again, like, relationships.
Like, in 2010, I, like, became really good friends
with a bouncer at, like, Irving Plaza.
So any time there was a show in Irving Plaza,
he would say, like, hey, Raven.
There's a show.
Do you want to come shoot it?
We'll get you a media pass.
And I shot so many concerts there.
Like, I shot J. Cole.
YG.
I shot Lil' Kim there.
The-Dream.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Network, network, and then network some more.
And don't worry about networking with already established
people.
I mean, they're obviously good to know,
but it's also good to network with people
who are at your level.
Growing with others is going to help you tremendously.
And so when you were shooting those shows in the early days,
what did you end up doing with the photos?
Like, did you just add them to your portfolio?
Were you trying to sell them?
What did that look like for you?
RAVEN B. VARONA: I never sold them.
I think I've always been really fearful of, like,
using someone's likeness without permission.
I would be highly against recommending it for people.
I definitely say get permission because you
don't want to get caught up later on in life.
A lot of it I was, like, instantly
putting on social media, which is
why I feel like it was gaining so much traction
and why people became so invested in me.
I would be at the show.
My camera was wireless, so I would directly send the photos
from my camera to my phone.
I would be editing them in real time,
posting them in real time, and it
was providing an experience for people who weren't there
to feel like they were there.
So I felt like that's what really grew my engagement.
Another thing was I was sending it to the artist.
So I would, like, post them online,
and I would, like, @ the artist and tag them, which was, like,
kind of creating this relationship.
So people knew if they saw me, I'd be taking pictures
and they knew they could come back to me,
but it was also allowing them to reshare their photos, which
was another way that was, like, building my brand and building,
like, I guess a name for myself.
KELSEY ALPAIO: What does the day-to-day look
like for a photographer?
RAVEN B. VARONA: For me personally, it varies.
There are days, depending on what I'm working on,
there are days where I'm up very early,
at like 7:00 AM because I have to be on set for a shoot.
And the call time is, like, 6:45, 7:00,
and I'm on set for, like, 12 hours.
And like, the preproduction is me
talking to my lighting assistant and coming up
with a creative concept and drawing up mood boards
and things of that nature.
But then there's also just, like, a side of,
like, going out and just shooting for the thrill of it,
shooting for yourself, shooting personal projects,
connecting with other people, looking for inspiration.
But overall, it's really just a matter
of depending on what the shoot is.
Because there are shoots that, like, there's
a lot that goes into it pre, like I've said,
and then there are shoots that are just like, hey,
we need you here at 1:00 PM.
We need you to take this portrait.
I'm there for an hour.
I come home.
I spend hours editing and selecting photos and going
through all of that process.
KELSEY ALPAIO: So I'd love to hear about some
of the misconceptions of the photography industry.
Like, you talked a little bit about how it's not just
shooting photos.
There's a lot of, like, after work.
I'm sure it's not all, like, glitz and glamour,
like, photographing these amazing celebrities,
even though it looks like it.
But what are some of the misconceptions?
RAVEN B. VARONA: Time moves very differently when
you're photographing somebody.
Whether you think you have seven hours
and you don't account for hair and makeup,
how the person is feeling, that seven hours
could very easily turn into you having
an hour with said person.
When it comes to shooting celebrities, the model to me
is hurry up and wait.
It's also, like, physically really
exhausting, to be honest.
Like, carrying equipment.
You're on your feet all day.
If I'm in shape and I feel healthier,
I can, like, squat for hours to take a picture.
I can be running around.
And when I'm not in shape, I can't do that.
KELSEY ALPAIO: OK.
Let's talk money.
What should you charge as a photographer?
Like, especially if I'm just getting started.
Like, how do I know how to value my work?
RAVEN B. VARONA: OK, Kelsey.
Let me tell you something.
I've been working for a decade, and that is the hardest.
I tell you, you can ask any creative person.
It is the hardest thing to put a value on your work.
Like, even now, like, I'm trying to figure out
my prints and my prices, and I'm just,
like, this is so uncomfortable.
I'm definitely probably an under-bidder
when it comes to my work.
Like, some people go by hour.
Like, they say, I charge $100 an hour.
I charge $200 an hour. $15 an hour.
But this is includ-- like, the deliverables are,
like, I'm going to give you 20 edited photos
or whatever the case is or two looks.
So there are people that go about it that way.
There are people that just have a day rate.
I would advise people that are starting,
first think about how much money do you need to live?
Like, what is your budget?
What would you-- if you were looking for a regular 9:00
to 5:00 job, there are certain--
there's a certain criteria you go for with a salary.
I say apply that to your photography as well.
So maybe you're starting out and you're like, you know what?
I just need to make $30,000 a year,
let's just say, and you factor that out.
And then you're like, OK, if I'm trying
to do three shoots a month, I will price point it at this
because I feel like this is what my work is worth.
But I also feel like when you're working with companies
or you're working with brands or people that are seeking you
out, you should always ask them, what is their budget?
Chances are, it's probably a little higher
than what you were going to ask for anyway.
So you might have done a photo shoot for $300,
and then you say, like, hey, what is your budget?
Or what are you looking to spend for this shoot?
And they might say, oh, I'm looking to spend $600.
And now you've doubled what you were
going to ask just from simply, like, having that
back and forth.
And also, I would tell people, especially new photographers,
to factor in the post work that you do.
Like, you might be on set with somebody for two hours,
but then you're home for five hours editing the photos
and retouching them and those things.
So definitely don't undersell yourself.
People will pay for work they want.
There is money to be spent, and there
is a lot of money in the world.
So please do not feel like you can't ask for it,
especially if you are a woman and especially
if you are a woman of color.
KELSEY ALPAIO: That's a good lead-in to my next question,
which is I feel like a lot of the times,
creatives especially, they're told,
like, you should do work for free
to get experience and exposure.
Which like, I'm totally not here for.
But is that kind of, like, still the vibe in, like,
creative industries these days?
RAVEN B. VARONA: I agree in doing work.
I don't think you should be slaving yourself for free.
But I think if you can look at an opportunity
and see that there's no opportunity cost or loss to it
and you can only grow from it, then I would say go for it.
There has been so many times I've
worked for free, so many things I haven't been paid for,
things that you show--
I mean, shows across the board, I
wasn't getting paid for until I toured.
So I had probably shot over 100 concerts
before my first tour that weren't paid.
But those photos I enjoy doing.
I liked sharing them.
They got me to a space.
So I wouldn't recommend maybe slaving or interning
for someone, like, 100 hours a week,
but I definitely believe when it comes to photography,
photographing stuff, to me, is not always free work.
It's beneficial to you, so I encourage it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
KELSEY ALPAIO: OK.
Question.
And it's going to be about Beyonce and Jay-Z
because it's got to be.
What is it like photographing Beyonce and Jay-Z?
RAVEN B. VARONA: It is iconic.
It is pretty life-changing.
I think they work at such the highest caliber,
and, like, photographing them makes
you want to even be better.
It's like this magnetic energy you
get from working with people that are so good at what they
do that you're like, oh my god.
I have to work harder.
I have to sharpen my needle.
KELSEY ALPAIO: What are the skills and kind of mindset
I should have kind of going into a career in photography?
RAVEN B. VARONA: There's a lot of photographers nowadays,
so, like, it can be easily discouraged,
or you can feel like, OK, well, this person is already
doing this.
So how do I get a job here?
But I feel like it's forcing the photographers that
are new to really tap into what is unique about them.
KELSEY ALPAIO: I think one of the most interesting things
I learned and something that I really take to heart
is the idea that just because there's
a lot of people who have the same dream as you doesn't mean
it's not achievable for you.
I also really respect the fact that she took something
she was passionate about, photography, and turned it
into a side hustle and then turned that side hustle
into a full-time job.
Like, that takes a lot of guts and bravery and determination.
RAVEN B. VARONA: The one thing in my life that always, like,
puts me in a good mood, no matter how hard it is.
It just makes me feel like I have a purpose.
I love making people feel good, and I
think that my work does that for them.
And so I love it.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Thanks for watching.
Do you have a career crush?
Tell us about them in the comments,
and we'll see if we can talk to them for you.
Subscribe to our channel to see more interviews with people
actually living the dream.
Bye.