well emily this is a moment of peril for
nicola sturgeon last week alex salmond
accused her
of lying to the scottish parliament and
of breaking the ministerial code
over her handling of the allegations
against her
and then today a release of a bundle of
documents which go to the heart of this
titanic struggle between the two giants
of
scottish independence and they do help
his case so in the first place we had a
trail of
emails and written submissions from
lawyers warning the scottish government
that they had
strong concerns that it could lose a
judicial review
into uh its handling of the complaints
against mr salmon
so let's take a look at this document
from the 31st of ocu october 2018
and this can this shows you uh roddy
dunlop qc who was the
scottish government's main outside legal
advisor raising concerns
there you are i am very concerned indeed
and the reason why these concerns were
being raised well that's because the
civil servant investigating
uh the case had been in touch with the
complainants and in the view of those uh
lawyers
that would make them ineligible for that
task but then let's look at another
document
this is 11th of december 2018 and this
shows that lord
wolf that's the most senior scottish law
officer who is a member of the scottish
government
did not want to give up there you are
this is an internal document saying the
la the lord advocate
was indeed clear about no question of
conceding
now the scottish government did indeed
throw in the town in january
2019 they had to then had to pay half a
million pounds to alex salmond
to cover his legal fees on top of having
to cover their
own legal fees now these documents were
only released to the scottish
parliamentary committee
investigating all of this when it looked
highly likely that
john swinney who's the deputy first
minister was going to lose
a vote of no confidence in him in the
scottish parliament
emotions feelings running very high
there
we can look at an exchange to be murdo
fraser who's the main scottish member
of that committee and john swinney at
hollywood earlier today
for months the committee has been
calling for publication of the legal
advice
there have been two votes in parliament
uh last year
calling for it to be published and only
now at the very last moment
when a metaphorical gun is held to the
head
of the deputy first minister and he is
threatened with a vote of no confidence
till he finally agreed to release some
legal advice at the very last possible
moment so officer first of all can i say
that when if i heard mr fraser correctly
and i may have misheard him and if i do
i will apologize
but i think he said that a gun had been
metaphorically held to my head
now i don't think presiding officer
that's appropriate terminology for one
member of parliament to use to another
absolutely neither now there was a
second set of documents that go to the
heart of alex salmon's claim
uh that his successor as scottish first
minister misled the parliament
now nicolas sturgeon originally claimed
that she first learned of the complaints
of
sexual harassment against him on the 2nd
of april 2018 when he told
her about them at a meeting at her home
uh nicolas sturgeon
subsequently admitted that she'd
forgotten about a meeting four days
later on the 29th of march
with his former chief of staff jeff
aberdeen who said
that the complaints were discussed then
and in the bundle of documents released
tonight there was a statement by kevin
pringle who's the snp's former director
of communications
who confirmed that account now alex
salmon believes that after the scottish
government
lost that judicial review in early 2019
a
plot was hatched to arrest him for
sexual assault he went on trial and in
march
last year he was acquitted of all sexual
assault charges
though he did admit to inappropriate
behavior towards women that he worked
with now the scottish
government is calling for a voter no
confidence in nicola sturgeon
and her handling of this it's highly
likely that she'll survive because the
scottish greens who hold the balance of
power they're saying no
let's let the committee get on with its
work and this is what a spokesperson for
the first minister said of that vote
to call a vote of no confidence in the
middle of a pandemic before hearing a
single word of the first minister's
evidence is utterly irresponsible
but this is all being watched with great
care in downing street
in london and uk ministers believe that
if nicola sturgeon
is forced out that would be a hammer
blow to the independence cause
because they believe that there is no
one in the smp
who can match her star power and
if she survives they hope she will be
damaged and the thinking then is that
the tentative signs
in a slowing of support for the smp and
a slowing of support for independence
they hope that momentum will go in their
direction nick thanks very much indeed
nick what there and it is a complicated
story but
um we're going to be joined now by
douglas ross the leader of the scottish
conservatives who today called for
nicolas sturgeon's resignation
and by hamza youssef the scottish
justice secretary
and snp msp good evening gentlemen if i
can start
um with douglas presumably you want to
hear from the first minister herself
tomorrow
before you make up your mind on this
what's very clear from the evidence that
has been released today
is that nicola sturgeon has misled
parliament she's lied to the people of
scotland
because we have credible witnesses
confirming
that she was aware of the allegations
against alex salmon prior to
when she previously said she was and you
know crucially
the complainant's details were released
to mr salmon's team i mean that is just
absolutely awful with the women at the
heart of this it have been so badly let
down
and that's before we even look at the
absolute waste of taxpayers money
given that the scottish government knew
months before they finally gave up in
their case that it was due to failure
so you would just say at this point what
you you don't even want to hear her
evidence tomorrow
well what i'm saying is there is now
clear corroboration that nuclear
surgeons like to farm
and we have lost first ministers in
scotland for far less she is accused and
there is
a huge amount of evidence now that she
has misled parliament and misled the
people of scotland
there will be plenty of people tonight
saying you have one rule
for your party at westminster and
another for the smp
conservative ministers in westminster
don't resign
when they're accused of breaking the
ministerial code
well i think we've calculated over 30
occasions where we believe
nicolas sturgeon has breached the
ministerial code
a number of occasions where she has lied
to parliament where she has failed to
correct
the record this is a damning indictment
on her
performance as first minister and also
how she has led this government
to continue with a legal face case that
their own lawyers correcting to walk
away from
unless they ultimately dropped this case
at a cost of hundreds of thousands of
pounds to our scottish taxpayers
this is still double standards though
isn't it i mean as a unionist you must
believe in common standards for both
parties in both countries
well i'm sure common standards also
relates to the fact that nikola sturgeon
could choose an opposition but the snp
calls for henry mcleish to resign over
an issue with subletting
his office if we're looking at double
standards or equal standards then
nicholas sturgeon and the smp
called for a former first minister to
resign he did the right thing he
resigned
nicola sturgeon was to do the right
thing and resign you heard nick's
remarks um just before that this will be
seen as an attempt to
weaken a very powerful leader at a
critical point
um in in scotland's trajectory towards
possibly a second referendum
this is so crucial to restore trust in
scottish politics you're going to be
speaking to
the snp's justice secretary and i'd like
to know how comfortable he is with the
snp
refusing to follow two votes of the
scottish parliament to release this
legal advice
and then today damning evidence that has
been released is incomplete
something with what was said between
lawyers and the scottish government in
november that's some
crucial period of time that we know the
first minister
and the permanent sector the scottish
government met with council but we don't
know what's discussed
or the evidence and the advice given
there so there's so many
unanswered questions that's what we've
got to get to the bottom of i'll put
those
uh to him in a second but does this
begin and end with nicolas sturgeon or
do you believe
scotland's institutions across the board
are unfit for purpose are you unhappy
with the process of government that you
have in scotland
this whole sorry saga is dragging down
scottish politics and the reputation
of the scottish parliament i've said
before i was a school pupil
when the parliament was re-established
in 1999 i lined the streets of edinburgh
with pupils from across scotland
celebrating devolution and this new
style of politics we were going to get
but after 14 years of failure from the
snp is
taking down your whole reputation of
parliament and we just need to clear
things up and have a fresh start
and i believe that can only begin if we
see the resignation of the first
minister who has clearly lied to
parliament and the people of scotland
holmes youtube can i
turn to you it's looking increasingly
hard to defend isn't it
first and foremost that is the entire
reason why we have a parliamentary
inquiry is to hear the evidence that is
the reason why we have an independent
uh prosecutor from from ireland james
hamilton
looking at whether or not there's been a
breach of the ministerial code is to
hear
and investigate the evidence for douglas
ross to
determine and pre-judge not just the
parliamentary enquiry but the
independent investigation
shows that this is nothing but political
naked political opportunism and nick
what got
absolutely right in your report and
number 10 are watching this not because
they care about
women who come forward to make
allegations in relation
to sexual harassment but actually
because what they want to do is try to
weaken
nicola sturgeon weaken the snp because
there's been 22 polls in a row that have
shown
that independence support for
independence is the settled well of the
scottish people
so you're the scottish justice secretary
you will stick with this process
and if she is found to have broken the
ministerial code
presumably you will be the first in line
to call for her to go
it would be your job to uphold the law
is that right
well the first minister of course denies
breaking the ministerial code she said
time and time again
if she's found guilty though if you let
the process
take its course not just to the enquiry
tomorrow but also of course
there will be an independent
investigation so forgive me i'm not
going to
get into the hypotheticals of what she
should do if she has done this or done
that
there is a process underway let her give
her evidence that she has been relishing
that has been postponed by the inquiry
on a number of occasions and then let's
see what the parliament's
recommendations are let's see what the
independent investigators
results of that investigation are
because yes as justice secretary i
believe
in natural justice that means listening
to the evidence
and then making informed decisions right
after that it's confusing though because
your leader in westminster in blackfoot
told us on friday these were
his words allegations without substance
and
nicholas sturgeon herself said he was
pursuing a conspiracy theory and a
scorched
earth policy do you believe that
as the scottish justice secretary
that sorry forgive me that alex salmond
was pursuing conspiracy theories i think
sorry forgive me i didn't hear that do
you believe that these are allegations
without
substance in terms of the allegations
being made about the scottish government
i have read a number of spurious
conspiracy theories which i'm afraid
have been completely built on sand
they have been washed away i mean alex
salmon was in front of the committee i'm
sure
you watched i'm sure many people watched
it and when asked of course if he could
provide
documentary evidence of some of the
assertions he was making
he was not able to do so but there is
documentary evidence today
for example that she was advised not to
proceed with a case that she would
surely
lose i mean the documents have been made
clear now with
other witnesses coming forward well
forgive me
you're being very selective you're
saying that it was doomed from the
beginning that is not correct
actually in the very beginning the
external council said that this case
from the scottish government was very
strong
as late as middle of november our law
officers the lord advocate our principal
legal advisor was saying that the case
was stateable
it was only later in december that the
case was found to be unstateable and
then we conceded
and settled that case uh early into the
new year some
days or a couple of weeks uh thereafter
so didn't drag out the process of course
our principal legal advisor in the
middle of december
said that the case was stateable there
may come a time
when uh if she is found to have broken
the ministerial
code and of course we don't yet know the
results of that yet
but if she doesn't resign you feel that
the independence cause is getting lost
as a result of that or you suffer at the
polls is her survival
worth more than that cause first and
foremost
just as you mentioned in the questioning
to douglas ross there is an election in
two and a half
odd months people will make up their own
minds in relation to whether or not
nicola sturgeon
um has whether she has their trust
they will make a decision based on how
she has responded in relation to the
biggest challenge we've ever faced
frankly in our lifetime let alone in our
government in response to the pandemic
so
people will have their choice they will
hear from douglas ross who of course is
not a member of the scottish parliament
but they will hear from him
who wishes to be first minister they'll
hear from the club sturgeon and i'm
very very confident i have to say
regardless of what comes out of the
parliamentary inquiry
that she will be returned not just as
first minister but she will lead us
to an independent referendum and
ultimately to independence
winning that referendum douglas ross
thank you both very much indeed