IS BEING LOOKED AT AGAIN AND
EVERYTHING IS BEING
STRENGTHENED.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU FOR STAYING ON TOP OF
THIS FOR US.
AS WE MENTIONED, THE HOUSE
UNVEILED ITS NEWEST IMPEACHMENT
ARTICLE AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP
TODAY SAYING HE INCITED
INSURRECTION AT THE NATIONS
CAPITOL LAST WEEK.
JOINING ME, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY
AND SENIOR FBI OFFICIAL, CHUCK
ROSENBERG.
ALSO THE HOST OF THE MSNBC
PODCAST THE OATH.
NOW IN ITS FOURTH SEASON.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.
AS WE MENTIONED, A VOTE
SCHEDULED TO TAKE PLACE ON
WEDNESDAY.
THAT LEAVES PRESIDENT TRUMP WITH
JUST SEVEN DAYS LEFT IN OFFICE.
WHAT IS THE CASE HERE TO MAKE
IMPEACHMENT GO FORWARD AT THIS
POINT?
>> SURE.
THERE ARE A COUPLE OF REASONS IT
MAKES SENSE TO ME EVEN THOUGH
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ON HIS WAY
OUT.
FIRST INCITEMENT OF A RIOT TO
UNDERMINE OUR DEMOCRACY AND
ATTEMPTING TO THWART THE
ELECTORAL COUNT IS AN
ASTONISHING BAD ACT.
SO WE HAVE TO CONDEMN IT IN SOME
WAY.
AND WERE RUNNING OUT OF WAYS TO
CONDEMN IT.
HES ALREADY LOST RE-ELECTION.
HES ON HIS WAY OUT SO CONGRESS
HAS TO DO SOMETHING.
I THINK IT IS A CLOSE CALL.
I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT THAT
HES LEAVING.
BUT HERES MY SECOND REASON.
IF HE WERE TO BE IMPEACHED IN
THE HOUSE AND CONVICTED IN THE
SENATE, THE SENATE COULD ALSO
ADD AN ADDITIONAL PENALTY.
IT DOESNT ALWAYS DO IT IN CASES
OF CONVICTION AND IMPEACHMENT
BUT IT CAN.
THAT SECOND PENALTY WOULD BE TO
FOREVER DISQUALIFY PRESIDENT
TRUMP FROM HOLDING FEDERAL
OFFICE.
AND SO BECAUSE WHAT HE DID WAS
SO BAD, BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE
CONDEMNED IN A VERY SIGNIFICANT
WAY, AND BECAUSE THERES THAT
POSSIBILITY THAT ANOTHER PENALTY
WILL ATTEND BARRING HIM FROM
EVER HOLDING FEDERAL OFFICE
AGAIN, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO
GO FORWARD.
>> THE IMPEACHMENT ARTICLE CITES
PART OF THE 14th AMENDMENT ABOUT
INSURRECTION.
HELP EXPLAIN THIS FOR US AND OUR
VIEWERS.
THE RELEVANCE OF IT AND WHAT IS
HAPPENING HERE.
>> SURE.
WELL, THE INSURRECTION, OF
COURSE, WAS THE ATTEMPT BY AN
ARMED MOB TO INFILTRATE THE
CAPITOL DURING THE ELECTORAL
VOTE COUNT, AND TO THWART THAT.
TO UPSET IT.
TO STOP IT FROM HAPPENING.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING BY THE WAY
THAT SPRANG UP ORGANICALLY ON
JANUARY 6th.
THIS IS SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT
HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT OVER AND
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
AND THATS WHY INCITING THIS MOB
TO INSURRECTION, ENCOURAGING
THEM, TELLING THEM THEY WERE
DOING THE RIGHT THING, FIGHTING
FOR HIS ELECTORAL VICTORY IS SO
TROUBLING.
SO VERY SIMPLY, THE ARTICLE OF
IMPEACHMENT THAT IVE SEEN THAT
HAS BEEN INTRODUCED IN THE
HOUSE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, MAKES
THE CASE THAT WHEN THE PRESIDENT
ENCOURAGED THIS MOB TO THWART
THE ELECTORAL COUNT, IT WAS AN
ACT OF INSURRECTION.
AN ACT DESIGNED TO UNDERMINE OUR
DEMOCRACY.
AND IN AND OF ITSELF, AN
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.
NO QUESTION IN MY MIND ABOUT
THAT.
>> ONE OF THE OTHER ASPECTS IN
THE LATEST ARTICLE CITES
PRESIDENT TRUMPS CALL TO
GEORGIAS SECRETARY OF STATE
WHEN HE ASKED HIM TO, QUOTE,
FIND VOTES, FOR HAVING
THREATENED BRAD RAFFENSPERGER.
HERES WHAT HE TOLD 60 MINUTES
WITH THAT LAST NIGHT.
>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS
OBVIOUSLY A VEILED THREAT.
MAYBE A DIRECT THREAT.
BUT THERE IS NO SUBSTANCE TO
WHAT HE WAS SAYING.
>> DOES THE EVIDENCE FROM THAT
CALL STRENGTHEN THE CASE FOR
DEMOCRATS AND COULD HE THE
SECRETARY OF STATE BRAD
RAFFENSPERGER BE CALLED AS A
WITNESS?
>> IT ABSOLUTELY STRENGTHENS IT.
ILL TELL WHAT YOU ELSE.
REMEMBER, THIS IS NOT NEW.
THIS IS THE EXACT PATTERN WEVE
SEEN FROM THIS PRESIDENT OVER
AND OVER FROM WHEN HE FIRED THE
FBI DIRECTOR, JIM COMEY BECAUSE
HE WANTED TO END THE RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION.
TO ALL THE ACTS OF OBSTRUCTION
OF JUSTICE LAID OUT IN VOLUME II
OF THE MUELLER REPORT.
TO THE PRESSURE ON THE UKRAINIAN
PRESIDENT TO INTERFERE IN THE
ELECTION.
THE CALL TO RAFFENSPERGER IS
MUCH LIKE THAT.
IT IS THIS PRESIDENT TRYING TO
FORCE HIS WILL ON OTHER PEOPLE
AGAINST THE LAW AND TO DO HIS
OWN BIDDING.
SO COULD RAFFENSPERGER BE CALLED
AS A WITNESS?
SURE.
I CAN THINK OF DOZENS OF PEOPLE
WHO COULD BE CALLED AS A WITNESS
IF THERE IS GOING TO BE A TRIAL
IN THE SENATE.
REMEMBER, LAST TIME REPUBLICANS
DIDNT WANT TO CALL WITNESSES.
THIS TIME WHEN THE TRIAL TAKES
PLACE IN THE SENATE, IF IT DOES,
THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE IN CONTROL
AND WE COULD VERY WELL HEAR FROM
ANY NUMBER OF WITNESSES.
>> LET ME ASK BUT TRUMPS INNER
CIRCLE HERE.
THE NEW YORK BAR ASSOCIATION IS
LOOKING INTO REVOKING THE
MEMBERSHIP OF RUDY GIULIANI
SAYING HE ENCOURAGED THE RIOTS.
THEY STATE IN PART NO, PERSON
WHO ADVOCATES THE OVERTHROW OF
THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED
STATES SHALL BE A MEMBER.
YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
>> LOOK, I HOPE THE BAR LOOKS
CLOSELY AT ALL OF THESE.
I WANT EVERYONE TREATED FAIRLY.
IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO ME
THAT WE NOT LET THE HYSTERIA OF
THE MOMENT SWEEP ASIDE THE RUSE
THAT WE NORMALLY APPLY IN
MOMENTS LIKE THIS.
I THINK RUDY GIULIANI HAS
DISGRACED HIMSELF AS A LAWYER.
WHETHER OR NOT THAT MEANS HE
SHOULD BE DISBARRED IS UP TO THE
STATE BAR.