This has been a week punctuated by the January 6th committee, concluding
its first set of public hearings and by President Biden announcing
executive actions on climate change after congressional negotiations
fell apart. That brings us to the analysis of Brooks and K part.
That's New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart,
associate editor for the Washington Post. Hello to both of you. We
always come to you when things are falling apart, but let's start
with David, with January.
The sixth. The hearings have now been eight of them. They're taking
a pause until the fall. What does it add up to you to for you so
far? Well as I've confessed a few weeks in a row now they have committees
vastly outperformed what I expected.
And Donald Trump vastly underperformed what I expected. So I thought
he was shambolic Lee doing his con artist talking to the crowd. But
we now know there was a lot more behind the scenes and that there
really was a lot more planning to storm the capital. Donald Trump
was a lot more involved in encouraging and sighting and then trying
to clear the way for the people who are storming the capital. And
I guess this week in the final
Session or final. For now session
We learned that he did nothing and the clear implication from the
whole string of evidence. He did nothing because he liked what was
happening. And so that leads you pretty close to a DOJ or some sort
of indictment.
What is it? You agree that where we're headed?
I would hope So. How could you sit there last night and watch the
retelling of the 187 minutes and not think.
How is it possible that the president of the United States did not
act to
Save members of Congress to save a coequal branch of government.
What's interesting to me is we've watched eight dramatic hearings.
For an event that was just last year. We all watched it in real time
and yet after hearing after hearing after hearing
New pieces of information filled in building blanks, usually
That horrified us to see last night. The sinking of the radio traffic
between
Vice president Pence's
secret Secret Service, security detail and the other officers in
the Senate with the video that we have all seen, But for me, what
was shocking was just
How close Vice President Pence came to meeting with that crowd. We
knew they were close. I didn't know they were that close that radio
traffic among his protective detail where they were saying Say goodbye
to my family, right? You you had to
Oh, stop and take a rest people whose job it is to protect the life
and to take a bullet for the principal. If they're afraid that should
tell you just how dangerous that situation was. David, I asked, Um
former Senator Doug Jones. Former Congresswoman Barbara Comstock
a few minutes ago if we measure success of this committee by what
happens
Two former president Trump, How do you? How do you see? How do you
define what constitutes success?
I think, as Senator, Jones said, they've already succeeded. I think
it's a It's the most credible seeming congressional hearing in decades.
For me, I think they've done a quite incredible job of not over playing
their hand with a few exceptions.
And they've just risen to the occasion.
Now by that measure with I think they've done a successful job. They
laid it out for the country and in an objective way is it's possible
in this partisan era.
Now will they succeed if they think they're going to get Donald Trump
off the scene there and far less clear and so like there was a poll
by the Casper Star Tribune, this Chinese running for re election,
the polls showed her 22 points behind or Trump supported backer.
And why is she behind why the voters, 60% said they are less likely
to vote for because of the she's participating in these hearings,
and the most interesting part of the poll was why
It's not because they're all Trump loyalists. It's because their
worlds are falling apart, and they think this is a distraction. Inflation
is causing a dramatic and massive reduction in people's lifestyles
and living standards.
And it's not that they love Donald Trump. Necessarily. But there's
an my life is falling about what are you doing? What are you doing
for me? And so there is a big disconnect. It's one thing that we're
hearing in a state of normalcy. But when the country's in a state
of economic crisis a lot of people are gonna say Hey, what about
me? Let's deal with me.
And and and it is occasion of them. Some people are riveted by these
hearings and others are just are not paying attention at all right.
But that doesn't mean that these hearings shouldn't happen. That
doesn't mean that Congress should not investigate. I understand that
people are worried about inflation and now lowering gas prices and
other things that affect them personally, but the health of our democracy
Is that steak and Congress must be able to do has to be able to do
all these things. At the same time, these hearings are not necessarily
about knocking Donald Trump office pedestal or any sort of short
term game. I have always viewed these hearings as a play laying down
a marker for history because 20 years from now we're going to be
surrounded by people for whom they either never saw what happened
on January 6th. Or they barely remember what
Happen.
And folks we need and an accounting of what happened on that day
so that people never forget how close we came to losing everything
and also
How why this danger isn't over has been toting have been read the
former oath Keeper. Guys said in testimony that this is not over
which and and we could still see as we know David. Former president
Trump running for re running for re
Election again. Yeah, try to game out if he is indicted. What will
the public reaction be? On the one hand for the reasons, Jonathan
explained. They could just be well. We need to protect our democracy
and let the politics be damned. On the other hand, faith in institutions
is so low, and there's so many people who think it's all a rigged
game. I saw a poll young people, This is not left or right.
Nearly half of young people believe it's not worth voting because
your vote has no matter on how we're governed.
And so that's just an incredibly high level of cynicism. Will it
look to people like a group of people are trying to usurp an election?
I genuinely don't know what the political effect of that would be
Part of part of it is. I think this is some of the cynicism is they've
seen what Donald Trump did for four years, and nothing's happened
to him. I mean, that's one thing you hear. How could he do all these
things and he's not in jail. He hasn't been arrested yet. That also
plays into it. Not only that running
running elections
The other one story that was, I think in the news every day this
week was the heat. Um United States has baking much of the United
States, much of Europe the rest of the world, David and yet we see
here in Washington
President Biden's climate agenda fell apart. There just aren't the
votes. Joe Manchin, West Virginia was a big part of that.
Um, We don't know what might have happened if he had stayed on board.
But what? What's realistic now, when it comes to climate change,
we just say, Gee, it's hot and then move onto the next subject. I
mean, I've kind of Joe Mansion. I'm gonna do it a little. Okay. You
know, it's Joe mentions Senator from West Virginia. What are you
gonna do? You're not going to get more pro climate change, Senator
elected from the state of West Virginia. So Joe Manchin is being
west Virginia. You know, I do think if you take the long arc of this
thing
Early days, Clinton thought the and most economists think the way
to address climate change is to make carbon more expensive, so carbon
taxes that is a political nonstarter. People will not pay for it
in Clinton suffered for it. The number two, which was Biden tried
to do is to make renewables less expensive.
And that was built back better, and it was a very plausible and very
good agenda, which is still sitting out there someday for maybe some
future Senate. But in the meantime, why don't we try to do things
that we can do in our political climate and freed Zakaria? Good column
on this? We could really reinvest in the new modular nukes, which
are smaller emission free, much safer and we could. We could extend
the leases of a lot of the nuclear plants that are still there, so
we rely a lot more on nuclear
We could convert coal plants, which are super polluting to natural
gas power plants, which are much less
polluting. Some people want to plan a trillion trees like nobody's
against trees. So like you can think of things that are that don't
immediately aroused partisan fury.
And I still think there are things that we could do out there as
free pointed out that that wouldn't get us back into the left right
thing. Nuclear Republicans are always put forward. A lot of environmentalists
are now increasingly understanding of it. So you have Jonathan, You
have this argument. There are things that could be done. You have
other people screaming the urgency of this. We have to do something
yesterday, right? And if you listen to some of the scientists
We might even be too late now. But to to David's point, I take your
point. There are all these things that could be, it could be done
to address climate.
Even if things might be too late. But the other thing I worry about
is
sure if you don't call it climate. You can maybe get some Republicans
on board. But I think we've gotten become so partisan. Washington
has become so partisan that if its proposed by a Democratic president,
the Republicans will automatically be against it, and so even if
it's common sense, even if it will save the planet, even if it will
improve lives.
They won't go for it, and until
We've got President Biden in the White House Democrat If he can get
to 33 more seats in the Senate maintained Democrats maintain the
majority in the house. Maybe we could see some movement on a whole
lot of things from from climate to codifying road to protecting same
sex marriage, a whole host of things. Criminal justice reform.
But but you know, that's that's like was wishing on a pony. I don't
know
the urgency. I mean, you, David. You do hear him One side. There's
just a just an
extreme urgency to get something done. And then, on the other hand,
there are the reasonable argument. Let's do what we can get done
politically.
So, um, yeah, I'm 100%. What I'm what my heroes heroines in life
is Frances Perkins, who was secretary of labor. She was always for
half a loaf, always for have a loaf And I'm I salute that, like you
can scream and you can pretend they're going to get rid of fossil
fuels in the next 15 years. But that's not gonna happen. So deal
with the constraints you have. And you know when you're passing the
ball, take the eight yard gain.
And so I do think some of the things that are possible like nobody
skins trees. I can. I don't think Republicans before trees and nuclear
power and things like that. So I have low tolerance for the that
we're gonna get. Let's go to zero fossil fuels and their term. The
technology just isn't there to do that replacement and a lot of people
leaning on Joe Biden right now to declare an emergency.
And banned exports on American oil and gas, too, so we can have it
here at a lower oil. That's just crazy to me to disrupt the entire
oil
supply chain at this moment of the Iraq war and cut off our European
allies, some of the things that are being proposed. I think I understand
the impulse behind them, but it's not the real Ukraine. What did
I say? Flashback you but
it's okay. It's okay. We each get one or more.
For comedy, but but just quickly, Jonathan pressure on President
Biden continues. Regardless of you know what kind of you know practical
solutions out there, right? Yes, The pressure is on the president.
The pressure will will remain on the president. But the political
environment is such that he's not going to be able to get done. What
what the activists want is just not
Okay, we're gonna We're going to accept it, at least for now. And
we will leave it there. Jonathan Capehart. David Brooks. Thank you