Aloha it's Robert Stehlik with blue planet and I'm here with Army Armstrong in Raglan
so we're here I've been here just on a family vacation and really cool to hook up with Andrew
from armstrong foils and we're letting me use use a foil which took me out on the boat
we went to a really cool surf spot just up the coast here it was kind of dumping surf so it's
gonna hard for me to foil there but so I had fun got some fast fast waves and then the next
day I went out to come on who Bay and caught like just some small little shoulders over there I was
a lot of fun and but it was just cool to get out on the boat and and he was like fishing catching
catching a couple snappers and all that kind of stuff so and today are me Henry came over from
Auckland so yeah so it's time you tell me a little bit about Armstrong foils the history how did how
did you get started I mean what made you start making foils I guess well I guess the journey
began when we were getting into kite foiling quite a few years ago and pretty much everything
was breaking so we just wanted to make something that wouldn't break you know that was that was
step one because I'm quite a Thrasher for gear and so everything we tried was breaking so it's like
okay well let's try make something doesn't break and you know I don't know six years later we're
still going so carry on so you actually started making kite foils first or is it you were making
like a multi-purpose soil well pretty much we had a kite foil it was breaking all the time
so we were fixing it and he made wings for it and they work pretty well and so it's like okay well
let's make the whole thing and make one really strong and so that's what we've really focused
on and that's why we're using the materials we're using and then being in Raglan I was really lucky
to meet with Rob Whittal who's the ozone head kite designer and he came on board and was key in
all of the foil sections and stuff like that he's had a lifetime experience making fall sections and
and Andrew who you met yesterday came on board and Bryce our other partner and they're all like guys
that have been surfing their whole lives or Robbie a little flying his whole life and so yeah we just
like good gear so we're like okay let's try and make the best kit we can so tell us a little bit
about you know the construction to design the features of your the Armstrong Burroughs yeah
so like I was saying Robbie Whittle mijitos own kite designer he was key and helping us choose the
foil sections that we were using which are pretty important and then I guess I've spent a lifetime
tinkering with boats I grew up sailing around the world with my family on our own personal boat and
when you're out in the ocean you've always got to fix the stuff that breaks and be self-sufficient
and so from that you learn a lot about what materials last and how to make something that
you know can stand the test of time in a harsh environment and so that's why we've used titanium
and in various ways throughout and obviously we also use three one six in our screws but the key
element with foils especially is using a lot of carbon is that carbons an anode when you put it
in the ocean so everything fizzes even three one six or furs the only middle it doesn't
furs in the ocean with carbon is titanium what do you remember it fizz so galvanic corrosion
so alloy is particularly prone to that so when a stainless screw is going through some carbon
and into some alloy you get electrolysis between the stainless and the alloy and things will fuse
together or fall apart pretty quickly so with the titanium it's strong and light but the main reason
we use it is because of zero corrosion so you could put titanium core fuselage into the ocean
for 20 years and the screws will go in and out no worries no grease whatever these parts here which
we're using now for our washers and our tea nuts they're also titanium and what we've discovered is
that with a 3-1 6l stainless screw into titanium it's a really nice connection because three one
six is a bit softer than titanium and so it just bites in and beards beautifully the thread no
Loctite no grease or anything and it'll just the won't come undone it'll stay locked and when you
come to undo it it just pops out again here we are on the street and Raglan going through foils
part two 101 so you got our little symmetrical washer with a little luck here that goes into the
the second screw hole and if you want to turn it round the other way okay the wash is symmetrical
and you can put your screw on this hole so you get another 20 mil travel forward or backward on the
track that's why we had the second hole so if you want to get it down a little bit further forward
a little bit further back with a different wing you can and the washer goes either way
these are a form of titanium construction which I can't divulge at this time that's right he's just
got a demo kit so you're just using the demo kit multiple production version so kini tell us real
quick about the the titanium part incentives yes sure so with the fuse okay 100% carbon and we've
got a titanium core it goes from the back all the way to the front and that's tapped so these holes
here are tapped into the titanium so the stainless screws go into the titanium which we found is the
best way to make those middles work together and the titanium is inert so there's be zero corrosion
on this like even a three one six stainless screw after a month or two you start getting a little
bit of fizz because of the carbon very easy to replace the screws not so easy to replace the
fuselage so this thing twenty years in the ocean to pull it out all the screws and fittings will
work because of the titanium core that's why we use it that's why it's super expensive to make
you have to make huge volume batches and it costs an arm and a leg honestly sometimes I wonder why I
did it but great thing as a last yeah explain why why you have that sheep that okay yeah so with the
fuse the reason we've got the tape at Hicks is so that the whole system is modular you can pull
it apart change your fuselage lengths depending on what sport you're doing and also for travel
packs into the bag really easily and then with the tapered it fits in and then the wing fits on the
front so it's tapered both ways and we've tapered the front end so that we can with our 800 wing for
example it's a much finer profile wing for higher speed and it also fits neatly on to the system so
that's why it is the shape it is and also we looked at boat design coming from a sailing
background again and this shape system is the bottom bracket on pretty much every vessel from
20 feet up to a supertanker so the drive shaft is capped with a bottom bracket like this and the
drive shaft the boat goes through that and I go okay that's been around for forever that'll do so
we're using a t30 Torx screw basically because the six point star is just way more positive
connection and lasts a lot longer than you don't just rip out the head of the screw so we are going
into titanium and you do want to get your screws up nice and firm and so with this t30 they just
last trim fairings of titanium as well which is zero corrosion you know so the shape will stay
accurate is this the computer titanium so and and the trick the reason why it's kind of tricky this
stuff's really expensive to make so it's it's a catch-22 for us in some ways like they're cheaper
alternatives but this is the best and we were like our whole vision start was let's make the best
quality product we can so we're kind of sticking to that it's a little bit crazy but it is what it
is again what is this thing here big washer um so that's that's the new washer that we've got
for we use the Sun out foot straps or the top of a Tuttle mount or anything like that when you need
a washer so that's also titanium washer and so these little bits and pieces that you know no one
really sees or understands but it's actually the key to our system really right so I read in your
brochure that you also use wood like is that where do you use them yeah we use that in the
core of the mast so our mast layup it's the fiber orientation is really important and so the wood
sets the fiber orientation inside the mast and we've got some boat builders who were key guys
fabricating the the foils for the America's Cup team that team New Zealand and so they've helped
us with our lay up for our mast and so what we've done is the fiber orientation is set by the wood
and the reason we've used the wood is it doesn't change shape when we're molding it and so we get
the fibers sitting exactly how we knew - I can't tell the world how we do that but how we're laying
up the fibers but the fiber orientation inside our mast is is different to what anyone else and the
surf Boyle industry is doing for sure there are some big boats out there that uses similar idea
interesting okay so America's Cup technology okay so um do you have any new products coming
out with like what's new with soils yes so we've just released that 1200 wing and the 2400 wing is
now available as well and we've got two new masts coming out we've got an 85 which is crossover kite
downwind or sup mast and that's some pretty long one piece and we've got a seventy two point five
so the 85 is thirty three and a half inches and the seventy two point five as 28 and half inches
so yeah and then you have that big wing ah sorry yeah we've got 2,400 so our full one range 800
1200 1600 2400 obviously depends on the speed the wave size and all of that but now the 2mass really
excited about so there one piece fully tapered we looked again at the sail of America's Cup sailing
boats what they're doing and they're tapering everything now so it's like okay well that makes
sense you need a really big and stuff where it's out of the water and connecting to the boat or the
board and finer where it's in the water so so just to reduce the drag at the bottom there's
two things that reduces the drag at the bottom and it also allows a tighter turn radius because
the mast is a large fin big row so the bigger the thing the straighter the thing wants to go so if
you can reduce that thing you can do tighter turns that make sense but in terms of the torsional flex
is there a difference between the top and the bottom or definitely yep yep for sure and what
we've found is that the top half of the mast is where a lot of that wobble comes from when you're
and end the connection to the board when you're feeling that and that's that's really important
that's bother the bottom but obviously you need a solid connection to all the parts but you
actually I think you want a bit of flex in there because it's like it's like surfing it's come to
that stage now with foiling where people are good enough that you can get that reactive dynamic flex
to actually crank out a turns with more energy and it's just a more dynamic ride it's like loading up
your fins and it exactly exactly so it's the same thing and if you've got something that's
just absolutely stiff with no give it's actually I think it becomes a bit beer in the water myself
hmm interesting okay well thanks for sharing that so in terms of the the future of foiling and like
where do you see it going where do you see the industry going do you think it's going to be a big
thing or is it gonna be just a tiny little yeah I think it's gonna be really big because the surfers
are really getting on board because they can see on days when the surfs marginal they can have a
lot of great fun with higher speed maneuvers and seeing people like Paco you know when the Haleiwa
Pro and he attributes it to his foiling because he thinks his bottom turn as improved heaps through
foiling because every turn is like a bottom turn on a more powerful way so I think it's gonna grow
and then also look at people I've got a girl for example who's a runner who's never surfed in her
life she's jumping off the thought pumping around marinas like instead of going running and another
get and that's it you know and she's like that's a great workout it's like that's what she doesn't
see the running me out like okay who would have thought that what happens so amazing where to
from here I don't know but yeah it's it's good fun it's a fun journey yeah so do you think I
mean I I think obviously it looks like the prawn surfing market is gonna be much bigger than the
sand of foiling ever was but what do you think maybe hopefully yeah sure why that's where at
the moment both are growing yeah and that's cool and I mean the great thing about the SUP which
is the same as always is you can just get more waves in your session yeah you can get around
you can you know guide is a wave hundred meters over nearly it's a paddle over there whereas on
a tiny surfboard well that's more work so great both heavy place yeah so Ann what do you think
about like going smaller and smaller seems like just the surfboards are getting almost you're
disappearing you know yeah yeah well that's for your feet that's right there's some guys on the
north shore riding you know 1819 leaderboards but they surf all day every day so you know they can
deal with that and if you can deal with that and you've got a perfect spot reef break with a wave
breaks like right there every time go for your life but I think in real world situation most
people dealing with a bit of wind and a beach break and shifty conditions you probably you
know be on you know I don't know 30 33 liters maybe for between 4 and 5 feet or ass up I mean
they're getting smaller as well but there's still room for you know a board 7 foot wall if you can
you know I don't know you meet in most conditions where you've got a lot of wind and wave action and
stuff like that you're not gonna be getting any waves on a tiny board yeah it definitely helps
have a little bit more length to catch the wave to it yeah so actually let's talk a little bit about
like dhawan boiling racing I mean I saw you last year you were in Hawaii at the m2o Maui to Molokai
race and then Molokai to Oahu we did both of those races and tell us a little bit uh yeah for
the future but obviously Maui de Molokai is always good and that's really a foil run m2o is always a
challenge last year you broke your paddle in like five plays yeah yeah hit the floor with my paddle
with down when foiling especially so I wasn't really trained properly for
those races last year to be fair just too much work getting this whole program going
but it's always good to see what everyone's doing up there and into oh it's it's a long
race no matter what gear you're on and yeah my legs cramped up after two and
a half hours of pumping like got it got killer cramps I was like I like fall it
was right there that it took a long time to give those last few miles because I fully fit
okay so you know for people that are just getting into Darwin foiling and like you can you give us
some pointers on like how how how you do it how you know I think the hardest part for me is just
getting up and then obviously then what's your up then staying up against you know yeah and
not coming off so like what can you and we'll be the two sides downwind foiling obviously
like you said getting going and that's a matter of go out on a really windy day to start don't
try and a marginal day when you starting and also make sure when you're in a surf break on to some
small waves that you can connect two or three waves if you're not if you're catching a wave
and you can't pump back out on a small day to catch the next wave you're not ready for down
one thing really because you need that skill to connect the bumps when they die because it's a
lot of effort to get up on a bump and going and then once you're going you need that skill to
be able to keep the pump going and the way you do that is you keep the wing in the top foot
of water and that is the art of pumping because you get more lift when the wings really near the
surface it's a bit like a reverse ground effect so you need to have that skill dial when you go
that dial go for it go out on a windy day the biggest one you can find and the smallest board
you can paddle that's it and then go for it you know I mean I find that to like having a longer
board doesn't really help I mean it helps you kind of get more speed with the board but it makes it
harder to kind of pump the foil out of the water and then to keep it going you know because then
you just have too much board so yeah yeah don't think that using a bigger board is gonna make it
easier because it doesn't really make it easier no I because it's all about being on the wing so
the boards are foil delivery device and there's a bunch of shapes now that are coming out that
work well to do that but generally for downwind because you're not trying to go upwind and battle
parents in a surf zone you need the smallest board you can stand on and pump the foil up on
a bump and where you go anything else you want to talk about well maybe you'll see you'll see
how foils all over the place by a blue planet soon yes yeah we planet surf we're gonna have
some Armstrong foes there soon so check them off alright cool man off thank you coming to raglan
least the wit is good thanks thank you Andrew again for taking me out on your boat