When American
athletes are on the world stage,
they that used to, well, unite Americans.
I think that everyone
would start cheering for after the U.S.
women's soccer
team fell in the World Cup
over the weekend,
while many Americans
are instead cheering their loss.
I'm thrilled they lost Good.
I'm glad you went down.
You don't support America.
I don't support you.
The vitriol doesn't stop there,
by the way.
Some posts call them entitled Ungrateful
Woke Pieces of trash.
Others ripped.
Megan Rapinoe
and other criticize their actions
during the national anthem.
Donald Trump jumped on the hate train
as well,
blaming
Joe Biden
and saying that
the country is going to hell.
I want to bring in Rachel
Nichols, host of headlines
with Rachel Nichols
on Showtime,
along with CNN political commentator S.E.
Cupp.
We begin with you, Rachel,
because there's been lots of vitriol
from conservatives
around this loss
and many people
who would be normally
when talking about America first.
Why do you think this is
the reaction towards
this team in particular?
I think it's kind of two
separate buckets here, right?
So I understand the human nature of
if there's someone you don't like,
if there's someone
who has angered you or offended
you or you just don't care for them
and they stumble in some way.
Having a little satisfaction over that.
Let's be honest.
People do that in their daily lives.
Politically, people
on the left do that to
that is not just the province
of the right in this country,
but that's very different
than what we heard in
some of these other comments.
Which were they lost
because they were woke.
They lost because
of their political beliefs.
And that's where I just sort of
get to make it make sense
because is the implication
that Megan Rapinoe had a penalty kick
sail a few inches over the goalpost
because she was I don't know.
I'm trying to figure it out.
Was she distracted
by the fact
that four years ago
she didn't visit Donald
Trump in the White House?
I mean, what what are we saying?
How does being woke
in the way
that the criticism is mean
that they were losing a soccer game,
a very competitive soccer game
against one of the best teams
in the world
and the idea of accusing them
of being woke
or pieces of trash or ungrateful
is strange to me in and of itself,
only in that
the number one issue, the biggest issue
for this women's soccer team
over and over again
is they wanted equal pay for equal work.
They, in fact, found it
particularly egregious
that they were much more successful
than the men's team
and still were not getting paid
as well as them.
So if that's the chief thing
that they have represented
over and over again,
and that's the problem
that some of these politicians
have with them,
what are they saying
to the women in their own party?
I just don't understand it, again,
make it make sense.
Well, as I heard you clear throat,
I know you want to interject. Go for it.
Well,
I mean, Rachel is right on the main.
And schadenfreude is ugly on anyone.
But
the the opposition to Megan Rapinoe
and the women's soccer
team is not over their demands
for parity and equal pay.
And that is not
why Megan Rapinoe kneels
during the anthem she was real clear
about why she does that.
She does that in
protest of American civil
rights abuses,
along with Colin Kaepernick.
She says she stands with them
or rather kneels with them.
And she says
she does that for people of color
and for her LGBTQ community.
Now, agree with that
or disagree with that.
When you become an activist
that, you know, comes with consequences
and it's it's
sometimes that people that like you, it's
sometimes that you'll lose money
or contracts.
Just look at Colin Kaepernick.
So the
un-American, the same
kind of cuts, both ways.
You could see it
as un-American
to root for a team to lose.
And I certainly hope
all of our American teams win overseas.
But I think there was a perception
that it was pretty un-American
in a foreign country
to kneel during our anthem.
And, you know,
I can understand that side of it, too,
putting the politics completely aside,
just the action.
I understand that bothered some people.
And listen,
I've I've interviewed
dozens of athletes
who have taken
activist stands on all kinds of issues.
And they will all tell you it is a risk.
It's one they all made
and they were happy to make.
And it comes with some great benefits
to your community.
And, you know,
you get your message out there,
but it comes with risks
that, you know,
people will not like your message.
And, you know, there's
those are consequences.
Rachel, what's your reaction to that?
Obviously, there are consequences.
There are risks to it.
And I wonder what it looks like
on the world stage.
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.
Completely.
It's just the connection, too.
They lost
because of their political beliefs.
That's what we've seen
a lot of politicians saying today.
And I don't understand
it just doesn't make sense to me.
I cover sports for a living.
I've never seen anyone
lose an athletic contest
because of their political beliefs.
So I understand
the urge to get your base worked up.
I understand
the idea of
I don't like you and I'm glad you lost.
And I definitely understand
what SC is saying about,
hey, if you get into that arena,
be prepared to deal with people
booing you in the arena.
I don't understand that.
Like last part of the equation
that we've seen, frankly,
over and over and over again today
because that's just not how sports works.
Why is there that?
Why is this have legs SC
Why is that the talking point
even though it's illogical?
Well, it's lazy and
listen, lazy works, right?
Especially when it comes
to political messaging, right?
You got you make it simple.
And so Rachel is totally right.
There's
a weird non connection
between losing and being woke.
But there is this overarching theme
in modern conservatism
that your wokeness makes you weak.
Wokeness is making our military
weak, weak,
and wokeness is making everyone weak.
There's this like anti-feminist
treatise now
in modern conservative circles
about about hyper masculinity
and making men masculine again.
So it's an undercurrent
that is part of the
political conversation
and right wing circles.
So I'm not
I'm not surprised to hear it,
but surely when you try to pass it apart
and make sense of it,
there's really
it's a very tenuous connection.
Well, Rachel Nichols, S.E.
Cupp,
thank you for both
trying to make this make sense.
I appreciate it. So much, everyone.