I'm thrilled to welcome to the program today, Dr. Patch Adams, who is a world renowned doctor clown and activist who believes that the Health and
Diseases of individuals really can't be separated from the Health and Diseases of their communities of their country of the world. He's also director of the DeSantis, Institute, which is a area non­profit
organization focused on healing the financial and social traumas of our for­profit healthcare system. Dr. Adams it's so great to have you on, I really appreciate it.
Can we call me patch in the create hierarchy? Let's do it, let's do it patch.
So listen, the conversation around how care is delivered, to people has been so front and center in the current Democratic presidential primary it's been a front and center topic since the United States
adopted Obama care about 10 years ago. Where do you think the conversation around this issue is just completely missing the mark.
Well, I think most of the conversation is around trying to do something with the problems rather than giving a great vision.
Our work has been knowing the problems and creating a great vision. And when you think about that vision does it line up with the system that any country at around the
world currently has in? So it doesn't... So can you say more about that, why not? What is missing from the systems around
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the world? Can I describe what we're doing?
Yes, okay. I entered medical school in 1967, because I thought, Doctoring was A Love job for a man.
I quickly within a month, found out that there was nothing I liked about the system that I was hearing about and seeing in the hospitals. Most doctors were rude and arrogant and hierarchical, and
there wasn't any fun or love, or these kinds of things in a hospital setting, it was frenetic and and I... And so I am happy to say I am a nerd, so I didn't have to study much in medical school I spent my
time deciding what kind of health system, I would like, and I did that, and when I graduated, nobody gave me a hospital.
I guess they're expensive. So I did what people in the 60s did. 20 of us moved into a six­bedroom house and said we were a hospital open 247 and then the 12 years we operated we had about 500, 2100 people in our home each month with 50 to 50 over and I guess a night in a six­bedroom house
that already had 20 adults and its children living there. So let's say it was intimate. Yes, and I, I wanted a hospital setting that was happy, funny, loving cooperative creative and
thoughtful that that's a climate for good health and a climate for non­burnout because so often in wanting to change the healthcare system, it's more about helping the patients get what they need
rather than the staff get what they need of this time. I'm in the 50th year of fundraising for a project, I thought would take for to find the funding because our design eliminated 90% of the cost of care.
That's what I wanna focus in on. Can you talk about how 90 people talk about... We can eliminate 3% with some bureaucratic simplification, we can look at unnecessary testing to get another 5%.
How do you wish achieve a 90% reduction in cost? Well, put on your seat belt, yes, okay, so we have 327 acres in Pocahontas County West Virginia,
the poor estate for healthcare in the US, yes, we want to build a 400 bed. Primary care, rural community hospital on that land, all of the permanent staff would live. There is a communal EcoVillage.
I'm thinking 10­20 per minute staff and that everyone from the cleaning person to the surgeon would make the same salary. Hold your seat 300 a month, okay.
The hospital will be an extensive permaculture farm and artist colony. And I feel that we... With that design, we won't accept health insurance, no one will have to fill out any of those forms.
And I we will practice medicine. An interesting addition is that we found in the 12 years we were practice, even though we often did it illegally at the time that acupuncture homeopathy nature of the
area of Ethan hepatic faith healing a had a role in medicine. The only one that was not out a path that was legal in my state was chiropractic and we found all of
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them. We're great additions to what we learned.
That's interesting. So most physicians tend to take the view that on something like homeopathy, there may well be some kind of placebo benefit, but for example, many homeopathic substances
have no active ingredients, and thus they don't really do anything. You as a physician, take a different approach.
Well, when I try to check­out a healing approach, I asked the healers that do it. Okay, so for faith healing, if you don't think a healing has any effect don't do it or at least don't push
it. And homeopathy which is all over the world, and I've seen it do great things.
The weaker the homeopathic remedy often the stronger which goes against everything we were taught, but one could question the value, for example, in mental illness in 50 years of practice, I
never disliked the patient enough to give a psychiatric diagnosis or a psychiatric medication. Okay, and I in... So there are lots of points of view out there.
I mean acupuncture if I rub this point here, and it got rid of 80% of the headaches in 48 years of rubbing that point on both sides and how US rubbing a point in the hand affect the heavy in outer
medicine. It would be called quackery right? So the concept would be, all the doctors get paid 300 bucks on 3600 for the year that drastically "edessa all of the staff, yeah, doctors included.
Everybody gets 3600 for the year. You do a Vedic as well as homeopathic medicine and this cuts costs by 90%. Now, will you be
fully staffed in terms of if somebody needs a heart related an aortic valve replacement, will you be able to do something like that?
Well, that's why I said primary care got it. Okay, so there are heart surgeries that are primary care there are... That our tertiary care at right?
So if, if the doctor, the surgeon We have... Feel comfortable will do it. And where do you think that you will find the medical staff that is interested in that salary of 3600,
a year? Well, a bonus of being in the 50th year, rather than the first year, and adding to that same when we
closed our doors in 83 within a year, I felt a real intense absence of care. I need to care. I'm one of those people, and I didn't have a hospital, and so I couldn't go and work in a regular hospital that
that would hurt me and so I did, I added two kinds of care one was clown trips and I've done clown trips all over the world. In fact, the last Russia trip that we had had eight doctors in five nurses
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'cause they wanted to put more humor in their practice. And the other thing I did was answered male. So in these years I've answered 400­000 letters from 139 countries.
Well, from all over the world, I hear discontent in medical doctors and in nurses that hate what they're doing, they hate the context, the hospitals are unhappy, they're miserable, and this is pretty
well known in this country, as well, and so, one can decide that Rich has many meanings. Rich is good friends. Rich is doing exactly what you want in the way that you want.
Yes, Rich is having good help it. Are you getting what I'm saying? Absolutely on our land there are three waterfalls of for a black bear beaver our deer Wild Turkey,
it's a natural paradise. And you get to practice medicine. So, as a family doctor, I like my initial interview with an adult to be three or four hours long because we're complicated while and I want to
have so much time that we fall in love with each other. That the friendship between health professional and patient can often be the medicine they need, right?
And patch you were portrayed by the late Robin Williams in the film Patch Adams, which is of course based based on your life and your views on medicine that you've told us a little bit about
here. How did you feel about that portrayal? Do you feel that it was an accurate portrayal of you?
Well, I loved Robin his personality though, he was much more introverted than I, he was a wonderful playmate and he cares. So the movie wanted to sell tickets, they promised to build us and
did not and they changed what they wanted to change. So the real person murdered was not my girlfriend, but my closest male friend in medical school, that was the thing I disliked the most.
The creative liberties, they took, right? They didn't wanna change the future of healthcare, they wanted to sell a Robin Williams movie and they did, didn't they?
Oh, it was a huge seller yeah, I spank their bottom. That they did not build our hospital. So explain that they had made an intonation, that they would support your hospital with some of
arises billit. They said We'll build the hospital.
Well, famous, a nightmare. And so, I needed something. And by that time, enough time had passed where I wanted a hospital and I knew that they would make enough to be rich themselves and I, I, I
didn't want the money I wanted a hospital and it did not materialize right while while... Well, I, I... Yeah, go ahead.
I asked, they didn't matter the levers they didn't respond to that. Wow, that is an incredible story. Well, Dr Pate, yeah, So you 90% of the people who have said patch. I'm gonna send you some
money. Didn't do it either. 03/05/20 Page 12 of 17
davidpakmanshow­2020­03­04­commercialfree Why do you think that is?
I think that's the world we live in. A sad reality, I've never been discouraged it's really fun to work for something beautiful. There are
great members of the team, and I'm having fun along the way. I've Cloud at 10­000 death beds in Trinidad, I Cloud for five men who were hung the next morning for capital crimes for and loved it
because of our work groups of clowns are going in hospitals in 140 countries to try to up the vibe I guess. And so, I'm not going... Darn, we haven't built right.
The hospital may not have materialized, but so many other things have correct correct? And we're not the only people trying to change healthcare delivery. And, yeah, it hasn't been
changing much, right, that's for sure, that's for sure. Listen, Dr. Patch Adams. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you and you sharing a little bit
about your life, and what you've done. I encourage my audience to learn more about what you're doing. Including a big is Don type Institute, and I so appreciate your time today.