>> In a new book, Katie Couric
admits that she previously chose to
not report some of the comments
that the late Supreme Court Justice
Ruth Bader Ginsburg had
made in regard to Colin Kaepernick.
So in her book, titled Going There,
Couric reportedly writes that she
was conflicted after Ruth Bader
Ginsburg, during a 2016 interview,
had criticized Colin Kaepernick and
other athletes who protested racial
justice that year.
>> Injustice.
>> Injustice, I'm sorry,
racial injustice that year.
Couric made the decision to cut the
justice's comments from the final
piece she wrote for Yahoo News.
And here's what Ginsburg
had said during that interview.
Couric wrote that Ginsburg said
that the protests showed contempt
for a government that has made
it possible for their parents and
grandparents to live a decent life.
Which they probably could not have
lived in the places they came from.
As they became older, they realize
that this was youthful folly,
Couric quoted Ginsburg as saying.
And that's why education is
important.
Look, especially someone who's
a journalist, right,
Katie Couric is supposed to be
a straight news journalist.
It's not her
job to provide cover for anyone,
including people we like.
Obviously, we were very supportive
of Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg,
but nonetheless,
a journalist shouldn't withhold
information from the public.
>> Yeah, so
it could have led to a more
wholesome conversation about it.
I don't mean as in clean, I mean,
as in fuller.
And that was in the height of
the Kaepernick controversy.
And would it have been taken by
the right wing and celebrated?
Yes, and would it have created
a controversy?
Yes, would it have hurt
Ruth Bader Ginsburg's reputation?
Yes, she says she didn't want to do
it because of that reason.
Well, you put it in your book.
>> Yeah, seriously,
I don't really understand.
>> So apparently, when you're
going to make a good money from it,
it's okay to hurt RBG's reputation.
>> Yeah.
>> But when you were just doing
an interview, it wasn't okay.
So that's not good journalism.
That's obvious, we don't have to
discuss that any further.
In terms of RBG's opinion, look,
it's misinformed.
Just because you agree with
somebody overall or you've liked
them in the past doesn't mean you
have to agree with everything they
say now, Dave Chappelle.
So I like Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
I didn't agree with all of
her decisions.
It's not mandatory that you don't
have to think like the partisans
in Washington.
You're allowed to be a human being
who disagrees with folks at
different times.
I don't know if it was because she
was older that she made what I
think is a mistake or some people
could have talked her out of it.
>> She had admitted later that she
was not informed.
In fact, let me get to that
graphic now.
Days after that 2016 interview,
Ginsburg walked back her comments,
saying in a statement that she had
been barely aware of the protests
or their purpose, and that her
comments were inappropriately
dismissive and harsh and she should
have declined to respond.
So she weighed in on something that
she wasn't fully aware or
informed about.
She realized that,
walked the comments back.
And look, my takeaway from all,
well, two takeaways, number one,
I've already expressed, journalists
are not supposed to do activism or
provide cover for
figures they like, right?
That's not Katie Couric's job.
Katie Couric's job as a journalist
is to share with the audience what
she has gathered in her research,
in the interviews that she's doing.
And she did the opposite in this
regard, and
that was really bad judgment.
The other takeaway is, and I
hope that people can start thinking
this way in regard to everyone,
there's no such thing as a pure,
perfect person, everyone, okay?
The people you love the most
are flawed human beings.
Humans are flawed.
Sometimes they have great takes,
sometimes they do great things.
Sometimes they do awful things and
they think awful things and
that's fine.
That's part of being a human.
We're in this culture right now,
where someone messes up, right,
inevitably, we all mess up and
then all of a sudden it's like this
is the worst person in the world.
Now, they're bad.
Let's stop having this childish,
black and white thinking on others.
Let's give
people a little more space.
Let's be a little more
compassionate and understanding.
And this isn't
just about Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
This is about everyone, right?
I just hate that black and
white thinking.
>> Yeah, so, last thing on
Ginsburg that I want to go back
to the point you just made.
Look, she's a great historic figure
overall and she's totally wrong
about this initially.
Look, when
they put out those comments about
what she really thinks later,
even after the interview,
people from the court called Couric
from Ginsburg's team and asked her,
don't put that in because they knew
it was bad.
So they're doing damage control.
So I don't know what
Ruth Bader Ginsburg actually
thought and what her people
realized she should think publicly.
Okay, I'm going to keep it
real on that too.
And if she thought that it was
the right thing to say,
she's dead wrong.
She said, which they probably could
not have lived in places they
came from that Ana read you, right?
Well, no, wait,
you're doing it by yourself.
So maybe your parents or
grandparents came from
Eastern Europe or somewhere along
those lines- >> Yeah.
>> And they might not have had
the same freedoms under
the Soviet Union, for example, or
under the Nazis obviously, right?
But Colin Kaepernick's parents
didn't come from there.
And if you're black in this
country, your parents,
grandparents and all the way down
to your ancestors, obviously not
your parents or grandparents but
your ancestors were brought here.
And they were brought
here in chains.
So it's apples and oranges and so
that comment makes no sense.
And protesting against police abuse
of black Americans is the most
American thing you could do.
Freedom of speech about a worthy
cause, I think,
anyone who says they should not do
that is at best ignorant.
And I don't care
that it's Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
who is otherwise great on issues.
And so finally, on Anna's point
about nobody's perfect, look,
I'm so flawed.
I changed my mind a great number of
times.
That means I disagree with my
earlier position.
My earlier position was wrong.
I'd like to think that I had
the courage to change it, instead
of being so worried about my ego
and insecurities that I was like,
no, no, no, I'm always right.
because I'm a big guy and
I'm important.
No, when I'm wrong, I say it.
It's not that hard.
But people like Dave Chappelle,
I think he's an incredible comedian
and we talked about on the show
the other day.
And you don't have to hate him to
say he's wrong
on the transition, okay?
And just because you thought he was
great in the past doesn't mean you
have to agree with him on the trans
issue and go, okay,
then don't question him.
Don't question him.
If you question him,
it's canceling him.
No, he's totally wrong on the trans
issue, 100% wrong.
That doesn't mean I hate him, that
doesn't mean he needs to be fired,
but it does mean he's wrong.
So please use your own judgment and
don't fall into camps of I'm either
pro Dave Chappelle, or
I'm anti Dave Chappelle.
And by the way, the minute
Dave Chappelle says something about
racism, all those right wingers who
are claiming to be fans of his will
immediately turn around now I'm in
the camp of I hate Dave Chappelle.
>> Yeah, absolutely, yeah, people
are just a lot more complicated
than that and it is what it is.
That's just this lazy thinking that
I'm seeing all over the place.
It's sad.