What are sort of the big issues, you look at the Republican Party and
you say these guys are just they're out to launch.
>> Well, okay, just putting policy aside for a second.
It's more about what I'm noticing in terms of, I don't know, fracturing is
the right word, but the Republican Party is in a little bit of a pickle, right?
Because when it comes to and tell me if I'm right about this,
when you look at Republican voters,
it appears that they're certainly attracted to the mega type candidates.
So they'll do really well in primaries.
But then once you get to a general election, and the battle is really about
those independent voters, those candidates really do struggle, and
I think that's what really transpired in the 2022 midterm elections, right?
These Trump endorsed candidates who are further to the right,
in my opinion, lunatics, like, they'll do really well.
But then all of a sudden they kind of try to tone down their rhetoric to appeal to
either moderate Republicans or independent voters in the general election, and
it's not really working out for them.
So I'm curious what your thoughts are on that, because I think you just based on
what I know about you based on the conversations we've had.
You're more of the you're just a traditional conservative in my mind,
really, right?
And so, and I remember you having some analysis post midterm elections,
that was you hit the mark on the head, like, or the nail on the head.
It was correct and that we need to stop promoting these,
like far right figures who aren't appealing to a broader electorate.
What do you think the solution is gonna be?
Because I think your analysis is correct on that.
>> So, I mean, I think that so much of this is attitudinal, meaning candidacy is
very largely in the primaries have become not about being far right politically.
I mean, as you say, I'm a traditional conservative,
which means it's hard to outflank me on the right.
But when, when it comes to sort of the attitude that's taken by candidates,
that's what's attractive and that's driven largely by the polarization.
I think that inside the Republican Party, there's been a move which is sort of
understandable based on how assaulted people feel by the media in particular.
That the more people attack a particular person on the right,
the more people on the right rush to that person's defense and
say this person is just the best thing since sliced bread.
And that is, I think people see that as beginning with Trump,
and it really didn't.
I mean, I've been here the whole time.
And I think that for a lot of republicans that really started mainly with McCain,
the sort of move from, I can't believe these people like John McCain is about as
moderate a member of the Republican Party as it is possible to find.
And yet suddenly he runs for president, and
he's the worst person in the entire world.
He's garbage.
He's terrible.
What's going?
And then the Republican Party responds by nominating the most milk toast human being
on planet earth in 2012, Mitt Romney, who is as inoffensive as dishwater.
I mean, he's just he's he is just white bread.
He's white bread with margarine,
and everybody on the left immediately went to he's the most scary person.
He's forcibly cutting the hair of gay kids in the 50s, and he's the person who straps
the dog to the top of his car and Joe Biden out there saying he's gonna put
y'all back in chains, Mitt Romney's gonna put y'all back in chains.
And so republicans responded to that many conservatives did by like,
why aren't we fighting this, we need to fight, whoever is willing to punch
somebody in the face is the person we're gonna support, and so
that's how you get Trump, and then Trump wins.
And so because Trump wins, there's this sort of halo effect that has now accrued
to people who are, quote unquote, punchers.
Now, I do think that the solution to that for
the Republican Party is to find people who are smarter punchers.
I like the punching, I think the punching very often is necessary, right?
That's why, like Governor DeSantis in Florida.
I think he's intelligent about how he throws punches, like him or hate him,
the guy is much more strategic than Donald Trump.
>> When he also didn't take any of Trump's bait.
Right now, he's a very strategic thinker.
He's somebody who really tries to pick his fights, right?
If somebody tries to pick a fight with him,
he's not always gonna pick up the glove and just slap back from his big thing was
you can't hit me without getting hit on any score ever, and that's not the center.
So I think that the idea that the Republican Party is not gonna be
combative in the future is wrong.
It is gonna be, and it's okay to be combative, but
you have to pick the right targets, by the way, the same thing is true on the left.
I mean, I think that when you see Democratic candidates very often there's
an attraction to sort of the most wild eyed because it's like, wow,
the right really hates this person.
They must be really, really fantastic.
And I think you see some of this from the squad, but
they're definitely counter punchers in the Democratic Party who know how to punch and
are and are much more strategic in how they go about that.
That is, I think the future of the Republican Party,
that's at least the hope of the Republican Party, if not what you're gonna get
is whoever says the wildest thing and draws the most fire is by necessity.
What I've said to republicans is you're essentially letting the left pick your
candidates, you're letting the left target the person and then hit them.
And the more they hit them, the more you're like, that guy is great,
love that guy said, well, maybe they're hitting him.
Yeah, because he's on the right.
Maybe they're hitting him because he's a bad candidate, and
because some of the stuff he's saying is crazy.