nato.
Joining us now to discuss, house
foreign affairs committee
chairman Michael Mccaul,
Republican of Texas.
Thank you so much for being with
us.
So one of the biggest subjects
on the fat agenda, whether to
fast track the push to join
nato.
Take a listen to what president
zelenskyy told Erin Burnett this
week.
>> The U.S. Decides today
whether Ukraine will get invited
to nato.
This is today's situation.
And it is a fact.
The majority of the nato
countries support inviting
Ukraine to nato.
>> The majority support?
>> Those who have their doubts
look only at president Biden and
he knows that this depends on
him.
It will be his decision.
>> Do you think president Biden
should support an expedited
process for Ukraine to join
nato?
>> I think it should be
incremental, Jake.
I think, first, they have to win
the counter offensive.
Secondly, have a cease-fire and
then negotiate a peace
settlement.
We can't admit them into nato,
that would put us in war with
Russia under article 5.
I think the conversation is
about what security agreements
could be put in place with
Ukraine as a predicate to
perhaps nato ascension of
Ukraine into nato.
But I think it is way too
premature to be talking about
that.
But I do think, just to talk
about it, does provide
deterrence against Russia.
But we have to be careful in the
way we do this.
Now, remember, back in the
Budapest agreement, they gave up
all of their nuclear weapons to
Russia and then we threw them
under the bus with that
agreement.
If we do another security
agreement with nato, with
Ukraine, I'm sorry, it has to be
one that is solid, that all of
nato is behind as a security
agreement.
The issue of ascension into nato
is a whole different issue.
>> You referred to the nato
charter, article 5, an attack on
one is an attack on all.
When the war is over, would you
then support admitting Ukraine
into nato?
>> Yes.
But it would have to be done
incrementally.
I think a security agreement
with Ukraine to lay the
predicate down the road.
They would have to come up to
certain standards within nato
qualifications to be admitted.
If anything, they've
demonstrated a will to fight and
a will for freedom and democracy
against tyranny and oppression
and I think they've earned it.
But we have to put it on the
right path forward, not an
immediate ascension into nato.
>> So let's talk about cluster
bombs because you've been
calling for the U.S. Government
to give cluster bombs to Ukraine
for months an now president
Biden has agreed to do so.
Canada, Mexico, all of western
Europe and dozens of other
countries, a majority throughout
the globe have banned cluster
bombs because they could kill
civilians and especially later
if they fail to detonate.
The U.S. Is still spending
millions cleaning up cluster
bombs in Laos from the 1960s.
Do you have any reservations
about giving cluster bombs to
Ukraine?
>> You're right.
Geneva convention, there are
signatories to that convention
who does not agree with these
munitions.
We are not a signatory to the
Geneva convention on cluster
munitions and neither is Ukraine
by the way Russia is dropping
with impunity cluster bombs in
Ukraine in the country of
Ukraine right now.
All of the Ukrainians and
zelenskyy are asking for is to
give them the same weapons the
Russias have to use in their own
country against Russians who are
in their own country.
They do not want these to be
used in Russia.
They want these as self-defense
to use against Russias in their
own country of Ukraine.
I doen see anything wrong with
that because quite honestly, as
you look at the counter
offensive, it is been slowed
tremendous because of this
administration has been so slow
to get the weapons in.
These weapons will be a game
changer.
They're highly effective and
particularly hitting flanks of
troops inside of Ukraine.
They would be a game-changer in
the counter offensive and I'm
pleads the administration has
agreed to do that.
But attack ems, we voted
bipartisan to release them,
longer range artillery that
could hit the drones in crimea
and the drones need to get in
the country as soon as possible
to deliver the storm shadows
that the U.K. Has put in there
as well.
It will take a while to train
the pilots.
But we have to move all of this
quickly and stop spending so
much time.
>> Let's turn to China.
Janet Yellen was just there
trying to strike a balance
between competition and
cooperation with beijing.
She tried to confront them on
trade and the climate crisis.
We were satisfied with the Biden
administration's message on it
trip?
>> I think just to get the
meetings, they made a lot of
concessions on sanctions and
skprt controls.
It is a great power competition.
I think XI was willing to say
we're not in a conflict or in a
competition.
This is just we're trading
partners.
I think that is a little devoid
of reality.
I think it is good to have
diplomacy and discussions.
Moving forward, what has China
done?
Their response is export on rare
mineral as, cutting to the
United States and in what would
be considered a trade action or
a trade embargo.
And this highlights the bigger
great power competition with
China.
First semiconductor, I took on
with the chips act and now we
have the minerals, China
controls about 80%, 85% of the
critical minerals.
We have to compete with them in
every continent, including
Africa and South America and
indo pacific and we're not doing
adequately so far.
>> Speaking of the special
minerals, let's turn to
Afghanistan.
Because it was two Fridays ago
when the Biden administration
chose late Friday afternoon,
before the long fourth of July
weekend, to release a damning
Afghanistan report that faulted
both the Biden administration
and the trump administration for
the disastrous withdrawal from
Afghanistan.
I want you to take a listen to
president Biden's response to
that report.
>> -- There was mistakes during
the withdrawal and before?
>> No, all they have to come
back -- remember what I said
about Afghanistan.
I said Al Qaeda would not be
there.
I said it wouldn't be there.
I said we would get help from
the Taliban.
What is happening now?
What going on?
Read your press.
I was right.
>> So just in case, and in
everybody out there could hear,
the question was do you admit
there were mistakes during the
withdrawal and he said, no, no,
all of the evident is coming
back, do you remember what I
said about Al Qaeda, I said we
could get help from the Taliban.
Read your press.
I was right.
What is your reaction?
>> It is devoid of reality.
Jake, it is a little bit eerie.
The president of the united
States would have so -- be so
disillusioned by what is
happening on the ground in
Afghanistan, the idea that Al
Qaeda is gone is -- his own
secretary of defense and join
chiefs of staff Milley has said
they're on the rise.
They're saying the Taliban is
helping us.
What happens right after they
withdrew, zawahri, who was --
that was Al Qaeda essentially.
You have the Taliban, harboring
zawahiri, and bin laden's number
two guy in Afghanistan right
after the fall and now he's
saying I was right, the Taliban
is helping us and Al Qaeda is
gone.
I don't understand it.
It is a bit bizarre to me.
That a president would be so
devoid of his own foreign policy
and he just really wants to
sweep Afghanistan under the rug.
That report was very damaging,
found that we should not have
abandoned bagram where we have
over $6 million of taxpayer
dollars left behind and now the
Taliban are selling to our
adversaries like Iran and the
Palestinians against Israel.
This is a huge foreign policy
blunder.
>> You're many Miami right now
and anybody that sees the top
right bug where it sees your
location.
Tuesday is two years since
protesters in Cuba took to the
streets if the largest
anti-cuban government
demonstration in decade and
you're in Florida to meet with
Cuban American activists
tomorrow.
Do you soup regime change in
Cuba?
Do you think that is the only
path forward?
>> Well, I think we have to be
careful in South America about
regime change.
We've had a history of that.
I support the people of Cuba.
I support them.
If they nt what an uprising
against their leadership, we
should support them in that
effort.
I will be with them tomorrow.
They're very passionate about
their country.
They want freedom and democracy
in Cuba.
And what is happening in Cuba
right now?
China is in Cuba.
We have latest reports now that
the Chinese are setting up a spy
station in Cuba, the likes of
which we haven't seen since the
Cuban missile crisis, and where
am I sitting, south com in
Miami, central command, that is
all the Middle East, south com
is central and South America or
our military, Jie add is our
intelligence in key west, all of
these facilities 90 miles away
from the tiny island where I sit
here in Miami, 90 miles that
could intercept between huawei