>> A FEW DAYS BEFORE ANCHOR GELEL HILL TWEETED THE PRESIDENT
IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST, SHE SHARED ON HER FACEBOOK PAGE,
TA-NEHISI COATES PIECE IN THE ATLANTIC IELTED "THE FIRST WHITE
PRESIDENT" HE SAYS.
JOINING ME NOW IS TA-NEHISI COATES, WE WERE EIGHT YEARS IN
POWER, WHICH PEOPLE SHOULD READ TO FIND THE SOURCE OF THAT
QUOTE, WHICH IS CHILLING AND UNNERVING, ONE OF THE FAVORITE
THINGS IN THE BOOK. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
GEMEL HILL THING, I'M NOT SAYING THIS CAME FROM YOU.
SHE POSTED YOUR ARTICLE AND SAYS WE WERE JOKING IF YOU PUBLISH
THIS ON THE COVER OF ONE OF THE OLDEST MAGAZINES IN AMERICA.
>> IT'S FINE. >> PEOPLE DEBATE IT.
FEW TWEET IT, YOU ARE GEMEL HILL, YOU MIGHT GET IN TROUBLE.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT ESPN'S POLICY IS WITH REGARDS TO
POLITICS. I CAN'T SPEAK OF APOINTIATENESS.
I CAN SPEAK TO THE AUDIENCE OF SARAH HUCKABY SANDERS AND NOW
DONALD TRUMP, HIMSELF. THIS IS CHARACTERS, IT'S ALL OF
IT IS TRUCULENT WHITE SUPREMACIST POWERS.
THIS IS WHEN WHITE SUPREMACISTS GO BACK TO SLAVE HOLDERS.
IT'S ALWAYS THE WHITE SUPREMIST WHO IS BEING OFFENDED.
I THINK IT'S PRETTY CHARACTERISTIC.
>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT TERM WHITE SUPREMACIST IN A
SECOND. LAYOUT THE CONCEIT OF THE PEACE,
WHICH IS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS THE FIRST WHITE PRESIDENT.
>> RIGHT. >> IS A REALLY GRIPPING ONE.
WHAT'S THE BASIC IDEA? >> WELL, I WANTED TO ATTACK THE
BASIC NOTION THAT WHITENESS IS ABOUT PHENOTYPE IT'S BY
LOGICALLY AND INHER AT THE TIMED.
IT'S AN IDEA, NOT A REAL THING, IN FACT.
SO WHITENESS ACTUALLY HAS TO COME FROM A CERTAIN PLACE AND
THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY, WHAT IT'S COOL FROM IS IT
NEGATES THE BLACKNESS, THE IDEA OF NOT BEING A WORD I CAN'T SAY
HERE IN THE ESSAY. ONE OF THE FASCINATING THINGS
ABOUT TRUMP IS NOT SO MUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, HE HAS A HISTORY OF
RACISM, HAS A HISTORY OF BEING A WHITE SUPREMACIST.
WE'VE HAD OTHER PRESIDENTS LOOK THAT, WE'VE HAD OTHER WHITE
SUPREMACISTS WHO CHECKED WHITE ON THE CENSUS FORM.
WE NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT WHO SO MUCH DEFIED HIMSELF BY THE
PRESIDENT THAT WAS BEFORE HIM WHO JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE OUR
FIRST PLAQUE PRESIDENT. MY ARGUMENT IN THE PIECE, IN
FACT, YOU CANNOT HAVE A WHITE PRESIDENT, THE IDEA HAVE A WHITE
PRESIDENT WITHOUT HAVING A BLACK AMERICAN.
>> YOU SAY THE IDEOLOGY IS WHITE SUPREMACY.
YOU USE IT HOOE, THE ONE GEMEL HILL USED AS WELL.
I WANT TO MAKE AN ARCHITECT FOR WHY THAT BRINGS PEOPLE UP SHORT?
RIGHT. >> WHICH I THINK YOU KNOW.
>> I DO. >> THAT IS A TERM THAT AT LOVE
WORK HAS GONE INTO, INTO CREATING TABOO AROUND.
SORT OF RIGHTLY, I THINK. >> RIGHT.
>> SO THE CONCEPTION IN COMMON PARLANCE IS SOMEONE WHO PROUDLY
PROCLAIMS THEIR BELIEF IN THE INFERIORITY OF NON-WHITE PEOPLE.
>> RIGHT. >> ARE YOU USING IT IN A MUCH
MORE EXPANSIVE SENTENCE. WHAT IS THAT DOING?
WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT? >> WELL, I THINK IF YOU OWN A
BUSINESS THAT ATTEMPTS TO KEEP BLACK PEOPLE FROM RENTING FROM
YOU, IF YOU ARE REPORTED TO SAY YOU DON'T WANT BLACK PEOPLE
COUNTING 94 MONEY. IF YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, AND NOT
REPORT IT. COME OUT AND SAY, SOMEONE CAN'T
JUDGE THEIR CASE BECAUSE THEY'RE MEXICAN.
IF YOUR RESPONSE TO THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT IS THEY WEREN'T
BORN IN THIS COUNTRY, DESPITE ALL PROOF.
FEW SAY THEY WEREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO GO TO HARVARD LAW
SCHOOL AND DEMAND TO SEE THEIR GRADES, IF THAT'S THE ESSENCE OF
YOUR ENTIRE POLITICAL IDENTITY, YOU MIGHT BE A WHITE
SUPREMACIST. IT'S JUST POSSIBLE.
I'M WILLING TO HAVE THAT DEBATE AND HEAR THE OTHER SIDE.
BY YOU MIGHT BE. I THINK WITH DONALD TRUMP, I
WOULDN'T SAY GEORGE BUSH IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST.
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIS POLICIES.
I CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT HOW THEY AFFECT BLACK PEOPLE IN A
NEGATIVE WAY? RIGHT.
>> I WOULDN'T ARGUE HE'S A WHITE SUPREMACIST.
I WOULDN'T ARGUE MITT ROMNEY IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST.
>> IN TERMS OF THE ESSENTIAL CORE OF WHAT HE IS DOING --
>> I DON'T THINK HE'S PRESIDENT WITHOUT IT.
I THINK THAT'S THE HUGE DIFFERENCE.
IT'S NOT A SIDE. IT'S NOT LIKE BUSH 1 FOR
INSTANCE WITH WILLIE HORTON, WHICH WAS BAD, BY THE WAY,
RIGHT? NOT DEFINITE.
THIS IS A THING IN ORDER TO GET OVER.
IT'S THE CORE OF HIM. HE BEGAN HIS CAREER IN
BIRTHERRISM. IT WASN'T ALONG THE WAY.
THAT WAS WHAT KICKED IT OFF. SO I THINK IN THAT SENSE, HE'S
DIFFERENT. >> THERE'S A REAL QUESTION I
THINK ABOUT SOMETIMES ABOUT TRUMP AND I THINK ABOUT ROSS
PEROT. >> RIGHT.
>> WHERE I THINK ABOUT IT. I REMEMBER LIVING THROUGH THE
ROSS PEROT PHENOMENON AND THINKING THERE WAS ALL THESE
PIECES LIKE THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IS BROKEN FOREVER.
THERE IS A TRANSFORMATIONAL MOMENT IN AMERICAN POLITICS,
NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME. IT TURNED OUT HE WOULD BE AN
ANSWER TO THE TRIVIA QUESTION. THERE WAS NO PRE ROISM.
IT WAS A SUI GENERAL PHENOMENON. I WONDER WHICH PATHS LAY BEFORE
US. IS HE THIS TRANSFORMATIONAL
HINGE IN AMERICAN HISTORY ABOUT THE APPEAL OF PARTICULARLY WHITE
NATIONALISM FRONT AND CENTER OR RELEGATED TO A KIND OF FOOTNOTE?
>> I DON'T KNOW, I HOPE IT'S THE LATTER T. ARGUMENTS OF THE
FORMER THOUGH IS, IN FACT, AS MUCH AS I SAY TRUMP IS
DIFFERENT. HE ACTUALLY IS THE CULMINATION
OF A CERTAIN PATH THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHOSE FROM
NIXON ON. AND PARTICULARLY CHOSEN HOW IT
INTERACTED WITH OBAMA EVER A THE LAST SIX YEARS, THAT SAYS HE HAS
ACTUAL ROOTS IN SOMETHING. THIS IS NOT A MILITARY HUNTA.
THIS SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT CASTS THE VOTES.
>> THAT ARGUES FOR SOMETHING MORE.
LISTEN, MY GREAT FEAR IS THAT SOMEONE MORE CONFIDENT, SOMEONE
WHO BETTER UNDERSTANDS WASHINGTON, WILL LOOK AT TRUMP
AND PHYSICAL OUT AND SAY, OH, THIS IS WHAT I GOT TO DO.
THIS IS WHAT I CAN GET AWAY WITH.
YOU KNOW, THAT I THINK IS THE GREAT A REALLY SCARY THING THAT
CAN COME OUT OF THIS. >> SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
SORT OF THE CAUSE OF THE TRUMP WIN IN SORT OF RELATIONSHIP TO
YOUR ARTICLE. >> RIGHT.
>> BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE
ARTICLE. YOU HAVE SORT OF A SECTION WHERE
YOU TALK ABOUT THIS OB SEX WITH THE WHITE WORKING CLASS,
PARTICULARLY. >> RIGHT.
>> YOU SURE TO LAYOUT THIS CASE THE REASON TRUMP IS PRESIDENT
BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE. HE WON EVERY CATEGORY.
SO HE WON THEM GEOGRAPHICALLY, BY INCOME, BY EDUCATION LEVEL,
BY GENDER, ET CETERA. BUT THERE IS THIS PART THAT
STRUCK OUT TO ME. YOU SAID TRUMP WON WHITE WOMEN9
AND WHITE WOMEN OF COLLEGE DEGREES PLUS 3 AND WHITE PEOPLE
WITHOUT THEM, 37. I READ THAT IN THE PIECE WHEN
YOU MAKE THIS POINT ABOUT LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS AS WHITENESS.
I SAW THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 3 AND 37, MY MIND WAS LIKE, THERE
IS SOMETHING GOING ON THERE. >> THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON.
>> THERE IS LIKE THERE OB SEX WITH THE WHITE WORKING CLASS OR
WHITE NON-COLLEGE IT'S CALLED. THERE IS A NUMERICAL BASIS FOR
THAT. >> RIGHT.
>> THERE IS. >> BUT WHAT I ALWAYS SAY IS THAT
THERE IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING IS THAT THERE IS A TENDENCY TO
PAY ATTENTION TO ONE ADJECTIVE MORE THAN THE OTHER.
AS I ARGUE IN THE PIECE, WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, WHITE
WORKING CLASS IN THERMS OF THEIR VOTES ARE NOT -- TERMS OF THEIR
VOTES ARE NOT REMARKABLE IN TERMS OF THEIR WORKINGNG
CLASSNESS, IT'S THEIR WHITENESS, THAT'S WHAT PUTS THEM IN THEIR
LEAK. MORE WHITE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE.
PLAQUE WORKING CLASS DIDN'T DO FOR HIM.
LATINO WORKS CLOSE, SOME DID. IT'S THE WHITENESS THAT'S
SIMILAR ACROSS THE BOARD THAT GOES ACROSS CLASS, ACROSS GENDER
AND EDUCATION. THAT'S WHAT DIFFERENT.
THE ARGUMENT IS NOT AMONG SOME CERTAIN GROUP OF WHITE PEOPLE
YOU CAN'T FIND MORE SUPPORTERS. THAT'S DEFINITELY TRUE.
WHAT'S THE THING THAT'S MOST COMMON?
IT'S THE WHITENESS, THAT'S WHAT'S MOST COMMON.
NOT THE WORKINGNESS. NOT THE FACT OF BEING A MEMBER
OF THE WORKING CLASS. >> THERE IS THIS QUESTION ABOUT
THIS SORT OF OBAMA-TRUMP VOTER. THAT IS A KIND OF PEOPLE SAY
THIS ALL THE TIME, YOU ARE SHAKING YOUR HEAD ALREADY.
I. YOU TO RESPOND TO THAT.
I THINK YOU GET SOME INTERESTING TERRAI