>>> TONIGHT WASHINGTON IS ON EDGE OVER HOW FAR TRUMP WILL
TAKE HIS TOUGH TALK ON DEFYING
CONGRESS IS THAT SUBPOENAS.
HIS HISTORY DOES SHOW LOTS OF
BLUFFING THAT LED TO FOLDING.
REMEMBER THE TRUMP UNIVERSITY
FRAUD CASE?
FRAUD CASE? >> THIS IS A CASE I COULD HAVE
SETTLED VERY EASILY BUT I DON’T
SETTLE CASES VERY EASILY WHEN
I’M RIGHT.
I’M RIGHT. I DON’T SETTLE CASES.
I DON’T GET SUED VERY OFTEN
BECAUSE I DON’T SETTLE.
UNLIKE A LOT OF OTHERS.
>> HE SETTLED THAT VERY CASE HE
WAS TALKING ABOUT FOR $25
MILLION AFTER THE ELECTION.
IT IS NOT JUST IN BUSINESS
LAWSUITS EITHER.
LAWSUITS EITHER. DONALD TRUMP SPENT MONTHS
BLUFFING ABOUT HIS SUPPOSED
COURAGE THAT HE WAS READY TO
FACE DOWN MUELLER.
>> WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SPEAK
UNDER OATH TO GIVE YOUR VERSION
OF --
OF -- >> 100%.
>> 100%. >> SO IF ROB MUELLER WANTED TO
SPEAK WITH YOU --
>> I WOULD BE GLAD TO TELL HIM
EXACTLY WHAT I JUST TOLD YOU.
>> BUT HE WAS NOT GLAD, EVERYONE
NOW KNOWS HIS LEGAL STRATEGY WAS
TO RUN FROM MUELLER.
THE MUELLER REPORT NOTING THEY
OFFERED AN INTERVIEW FOR A SPAN
OF OVER A YEAR AND HE ALWAYS
PASSED.
PASSED. THEN THE MOST ABSURD ONE OF ALL.
THAT DONALD TRUMP’S PERSONAL
CATCH PHRASE, A TOUGH BOSS WHO
TELLS PEOPLE WHEN THEY’RE TOAST.
>> KEVIN.
>> KEVIN. YOU’RE FIRED.
YOU’RE FIRED. TERRELL, YOU’RE FIRED.
JAMIE.
JAMIE. YOU’RE FIRED.
YOU’RE FIRED. >> FIRED.
>> FIRED. >> BUT AS PRESIDENT, WE HAD
COUNTLESS REPORTS THAT DONALD
TRUMP STRUGGLES TO SAY THOSE TWO
WORDS TO HIS OWN STAFF.
HE ASKS OTHERS TO HANDLE IT AND
INCLUDING THE BIGGEST ONE OF
ALL, ASKING HIS LAWYER TO FIRE
BOB MUELLER AND THAT HELPED HIM
IN THE END BECAUSE McGAHN
FAMOUSLY REFUSED.
FAMOUSLY REFUSED. SO AS WASHINGTON GIRDS FOR THE
SUBPOENA WARS THAT DONALD TRUMP
SAYS HE’S LAUNCHING, IT IS WORTH
KEEPING IN MIND THAT DONALD
TRUMP OFTEN TALKS LIKE HE’S
TOUGH, LIKE HE’S READY FOR THE
LEGAL FIGHTS, LIKE THE USE A
COMMON PARLANCE, HE WANTS THE
SMOKE.
SMOKE. SOMETIME HE MAKES IT SOUND LIKE
HE WANTS ALL THE SMOKE.
IN MANY OF THE BIG CASES, TRUMP
UNIVERSITY, TESTIFYING TO
MUELLER, FIRING HIS OWN STAFF,
DONALD TRUMP DON’T WANT THE
SMOKE.
SMOKE. TO PARAPHRASE, WHY YOU FLEXING,
DONALD?
DONALD? YOU DON’T WANT NO SMOKE.
KEEP ON TAKING THESE PICTURES,
HOLDING THESE STRAPS, BUT YOU
ARE A NONSMOKER.
I’M JOINED NOW BY DAVID CORN
FROM MOTHER JONES.
DOES HE REALLY WANT THE SMOKE?
>> I DON’T KNOW WHAT GRAHAM
WOULD SAY ABOUT THIS BUT I THINK
WHAT WE’RE GETTING TO, THE
SMOKE, IS MAYBE EXISTENTIAL
SMOKE.
SMOKE. WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT, I’M
GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE TRUMP
UNIVERSITY.
UNIVERSITY. THAT’S WHAT I WAS THINKING
ABOUT, TOO.
ABOUT, TOO. I NEVER SETTLE.
HE SETTLED THAT CASE.
HE’S SETTLED LOTS OF CASES OVER
THE YEARS.
THE YEARS. HE HAS PAID HUSH MONEY WHAT
WE’RE SEEING NOW, WHEN IT COMES
TO GETTING HIS TAX RETURNS.
WHEN IT COMES THE PUTTING DON
McGAHN ON THE CONGRESSIONAL
STAND.
STAND. EMOLUMENTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE
UNDERWAY.
UNDERWAY. THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS
FOR DONALD TRUMP.
AND I THINK HE REALIZES IT.
WE HAVE OTHER A LOT OF PEOPLE
SAY IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS, HE
MAY BE VULNERABLE TO CRIMINAL
CHARGES WHEN HE’S OUT OF THE
OFFICE AS WELL.
OF COURSE THE NEW YORK STATE
ATTORNEY GENERAL, A LOT GOING ON
THERE.
THERE. I THINK IN SOME WAYS, HE MAY BE
FIGHTING NOT JUST FOR HIS
POLITICAL LIFE.
POLITICAL LIFE. HE MAY BE FIGHTING FOR HIS
FREEDOM.
FREEDOM. IN THOSE INSTANCES, HE MAY, YOU
KNOW, TO USE ANOTHER GANGSTER
TERM, HE MAY BE WILLING TO GO TO
THE MATTRESSES.
THE MATTRESSES. HE’S ALREADY SAID, HE’S
BASICALLY ORDERED, DON’T RELEASE
MY TAXES.
MY TAXES. THAT SHOWDOWN COMES IN A COUPLE
DAYS.
DAYS. AND NOT TO SUBMIT TO NOTICE
CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS.
CONGRESSIONAL REQUESTS. I THINK YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT
THIS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS
THAT IS BASICALLY UNFOLDING.
AND WHERE IT IS ABOUT TAXES OR
ABOUT CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY OR
GETTING THE FULL MUELLER REPORT.
AT SOME POINT THE COURT WILL
ORDER HIM TO DO SOMETHING.
THAT HE DOESN’T WANT TO DO.
AND AT THAT POINT HE’LL SAY, NO,
MAKE ME.
MAKE ME. THEN WHAT HAPPENS?
>> WELL, I’LL ANSWER YOUR
QUESTION MAY HAVE BEEN
RHETORICAL.
RHETORICAL. >> BUT PLEASE ANSWER IT.
>> I’LL TRY ANSWERING PART OF
IT.
IT. IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT INVOLVES
THE OTHER LAWFUL EMPLOYEES OF
THE UNITED STATES, ONE OF THE
POSITIVES THAT THE MUELLER
REPORT SHOWS IS PEOPLE GOING
AHEAD AND FOLLOWING THE RULES.
IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE TRAVEL
BAN CAN ONLY BE ENFORCED BY
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE
UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. WE KNOW WHEN TRUMP ORDERED IT,
THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
FOLLOWED IT.
FOLLOWED IT. AND AS SOON AS THE COURT ORDER,
IT BEGAN IN BROOKLYN AND MANY
OTHERS REMEMBER, THAT BLOCKED
THE TEMPORARY INJUNCTIONS, THEY
STOPPED ENFORCING IT.
IF IT DEPENDS ON OTHERS, THAT’S
THE GOOD NEWS.
THAT’S A DEEPER QUESTION OF THE
NIXON TAPES.
NIXON TAPES. WHAT IF IT DEPENDS ON THE
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? >> LET’S PLAY THAT OUT.
THE ADMINISTRATION BLOCKS THE
REQUEST FOR HIS TAX RETURNS, AND
IT GOES TO THE COURT, AND THE
COURT SAYS YOU CAN’T DO THIS.
WHAT DOES STEVE MNUCHIN AND THE
IRS COMMISSIONER DO THEN IN DO
THEY SAY I’M SORRY, MR.
PRESIDENT, I HAVE TO TURN IT
OVER?
OVER? >> IF IT’S UP TO THEM, DO THE
TAX RETURNS EXIST OVER HERE,
THEY COULD BE HELD IN CONTEMPT
WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN
SOMETHING PRIVATELY HELD.
>> SO HE THEN STARTS FIRING
THEM?
THEM? DOES HE THROW UP HIS HANDS AND
LET IT HAPPEN?
THERE’S A LOT OF --
>> OR DOES HE CAVE LIKE HE
CAVED.
CAVED. >> HE MIGHT.
BUT I THINK A LOT OF THE THINGS
COMING DOWN THE PIKE HERE ARE
THINGS THAT REALLY GET TO
WHETHER HE CAN SURVIVE AS
PRESIDENT AND WHETHER HE HAS
SOME TREMENDOUS LEGAL
VULNERABILITY.
VULNERABILITY. MAYBE INVOLVING FAMILY MEMBERS.
>> I’M GOING TO A BREAK BUT I
DIDN’T GET YOUR FULL ANSWER.
DOES HE WANT THE SMOKE OR NOT?
>> HE WANTS THE CHAOS.
HE WANTS THE CHAOS.
SOMETIMES THERE’S SMOKE IN
CHAOS.
CHAOS. SOMETIMES THERE’S FIRE.
SOMETIMES THIS IS A LOT OF
QUIET.
QUIET. I THINK ON SOME THINGS, I THINK