What studies do you have that
people that have had the vaccine or
have had the infection
are spreading the infection?
If we're not spreading the
infection, isn't it just theater?
>> No, it's not.
>> You had the vaccine and
you're wearing two masks,
isn't that theater?
>> No, here we go again with
the theater.
Let's get down to the facts.
>> So that is Rand Paul and Dr.
Fauci going at it
talking about political theater.
One is accusing the other
of theater, the other is no doubt,
executing political theater.
But this is one of those
discussions that's ongoing right
now in terms of what happens
if you get a vaccine and you have
theoretically have some heightened
level of immunity that is higher
than it was before you were
vaccinated, but the CDC guidance
still says that when you go out in
public, various people in various
situations should still wear masks.
That was just the beginning
of the interaction, we'll play you
some of the rest of it so
you can judge for yourself.
>> You're not hearing what I'm
saying about variants.
We're talking about wild type
versus variants.
>> What proof is there that there
are significant reinfections with
hospitalizations and
death from the variants?
None in our country, zero.
>> Well, because we don't have
a prevalence of a variant yet.
We're having one- can I finish?
We're having 117 deaths
becoming one dominant.
>> You're making your policy based
on conjecture.
>> No, it isn't
based on conjecture.
>> You have the conjecture that
we're going to get variants, so you
won't be able to wear a mask for
another couple years.
>> No.
>> You've been vaccinated and
you parade around in two masks
for show.
>> No.
>> You can't get it again,
there's virtually zero percent
chances you're going to get it, and
you're telling people that have had
the vaccine, who have immunity,
you're defying everything we
know about immunity by telling
people to wear masks who have
been vaccinated.
Instead you should be saying there
is no science to say we're going to
have a problem from the large
number of people who have been
vaccinated.
You want to get rid of vaccine
hesitancy?
Tell them to wear their mask after
they get the vaccine.
You want people to get the vaccine,
give them a reward instead of
telling them that the nanny state
is going to be there for
three more years and
you got to wear a mask forever.
People don't want to hear it,
there's no science behind it.
>> Well, let me just state for
the record that masks are not
theater, masks are protective.
>> If you have immunity
they're theater.
If you already have immunity,
you're wearing a mask to give
comfort to others.
You're not wearing a mask because
of any science.
>> I totally disagree with you.
>> So that's how it played out.
Someone had to come in and
break up the fight between Dr.
Paul and Dr. Fauci.
Though one is an epidemiologist and
the other can tell you whether or
not you can see this row of
letters on the wall.
So just to clarify, Center for
Disease Control,
as reported by the Hill, advised
that those who have been fully
vaccinated against COVID-19 should
wear a mask in public nonetheless.
So Cenk, what are your
thoughts on all this?
>> Yeah, so this one's complicated.
So a lot of times these days
the right wing makes it easy.
They they just make up stuff.
No, way that's theatre,
that's not at all true.
And then that will give you
the actual facts then we move on.
So, in this case, I have some
sympathy for Rand Paul's position
if he wasn't such a jerk.
And I'll explain why him being
a jerk is relevant too.
So, after you get vaccinated, it is
very likely that you are safe and
the people you're around are also
safe.
There's a study out of Israel
saying that it is very unlikely for
you to pass it on to others who
have not yet been vaccinated.
And science is leading in that
direction.
Now is Dr.
Fauci being overly careful?
That's my best guess.
But I'm not a doctor, right?
And I haven't studied this
for a living.
But I can understand why he's being
overly careful because a lot of
people aren't wearing masks before
they get vaccinated.
And so even if it was,
quote unquote, theatre for
public officials, that theatre is
actually politically relevant.
Not in terms of electoral
politics but in terms of policy,
because you want to encourage as
much mask wearing as possible.
Now, that's pre-vaccine.
So if Rand Paul wanted to make
the point in an intellectual way,
and a respectful way,
and an intellectually honest way,
he would say, Dr. Fauci aren't you
being overly careful, and don't
we want to, and so he mentioned
the reward, part, and that's fine,
don't we want to reward people for
getting a vaccine?
So shouldn't,
we calibrate this differently?
As opposed to, you're doing for
a political stunt,
it's the Democrats, or
obsessed with the mask.
Well, what's the message you're
sending by framing it that way?
The message you're sending is masks
are not important,
they're only theater, don't listen
to the doctors and the scientists
that tell you to wear one..
And in a country that is still
overwhelmingly not vaccinated, that
is a very bad message to send out.
>> Yes, and we are setting records.
It was reported today there was
an announcement by President Biden
who said that we will hit our 100
million vaccination mark,
which was his goal for
100 days, we've hit it at day 58.
So we're ahead of schedule.
But with Rand Paul with me,
it's always like, God,
your dad had so
much more integrity.
Ron Paul, Dr. Ron Paul was the guy
who you'd ask a question, and
yes, he's a libertarian, yes,
he's one of those fundamentalist
libertarian, for lack of a better
term, he was just going to give you
the answer according to
his libertarian ideology.
Five minutes talking to him,
it makes some sense,
15 minutes talking to him,
you're like, what's happening?
An hour in you're like,
that's nuts, for me,
that's my personal appraisal of it.
But at least I knew what
I was dealing with.
With Rand Paul, I just have to,
the son realizes that his dad could
never be president, and so
he knows that he has to play some
extra level of politics,
in order to become president.
And he thought he had a shot last
go round and
he got annihilated by Trump, but
he still wants to stay in there and
make the points and stay relevant.
That's what's frustrating with
Rand Paul.
With Dr. Fauci, I understand that
he is the leading epidemiologist
and he deals with this stuff every
single day, all day.
And he's just coming out of
the last administration where
the President just did
not listen to him at all.
And everything the President was
doing was utterly politically
motivated.
And so every at every turn, Dr.
Fauci was shot down.
And now he has people that
are listening to him.
But he still has people
like Rand Paul out there,
who bury their head in the sand
when it comes down to the very real
fact that it makes sense for you to
take your mask off when you're
vaccinated in certain situations.
But it really doesn't make sense
for you to absolutely take it
off anywhere.
And then add to that fact, yes,
there going to be people who just
don't wear their masks,
they're not vaccinated.
They're going to tell
you that they're vaccinated, and
when you're at the supermarket,
you're going to look around and
not know what to do.
And there is some element of
theater in that, but
that element of theater is dwarfed
by the theater that's been going on
for the last year and
a half from the right wing, that is
all about pretending that they're
fighting for Americans' rights.
When in reality all they're doing,
is making people unnecessarily
vulnerable to this already
deadly disease.
That's what's frustrating.
>> 100%, the last thing is risk.
Look, everybody has got a different
risk tolerance, right?
And so, but pre vaccination and
post vaccination makes a giant
difference.
Because pre vaccination, you're not
just taking a risk with yourself,
you're taking
a risk on behalf of others.
And that's the unacceptable
part, right?
So you want to be outside and
you're not anywhere near other
people, you're not wearing a mask,
in my opinion there's
nothing wrong with that.
But you're going to go inside
without a mask and you haven't
been vaccinated, you're actively
putting other people in danger.
And so that's where a mandate makes
sense, because it's
the government protecting people.
It's not to try and
take your freedom away.
It's like saying, I punched a guy
in the face and you took the
freedom of my fist away from me.
Well, yeah,
we're allowed to do that.
[LAUGH] There are limits to so
called freedom if you use
it to hurt other people.
But post vaccination, everybody's
going to have a different risk
tolerance and that you might say,
hey, listen, I'm not comfortable,
even though you're vaccinated and
vaccinated without a mask inside.
Then you do you, no problem,
don't wear the mask.
But if everybody is vaccinated and
you're vaccinated and
we have increasing evidence and
increasing scientific backing for
not wearing masks not causing
a bigger problem, then we gotta be
okay with people not wearing masks.
And I'm just saying it's okay in
either direction, post vaccination,
right?
Because then at that point that
point you're putting your feelings
on other people, but even then,
there's nothing
wrong with being respectful.
So right now when I go outside, and
if I'm walking and
I'm not near anyone,
I don't have a mask on.
But if I see someone coming and
they look like they're going to be
uncomfortable even though we're
wide open and
they're 100 feet away, they're
moving towards the street or
something to get out of the way,
then I immediately put a mask on.
I would have crossed the street
anyway, but I'll cross
the street and put a mask on, why?
To make them comfortable.
You know why?
because I'd like to think I'm
a decent person.
I don't want to make
them uncomfortable,
even if I think across the street
is perfectly safe, right?
So can we be mindful of each other?
Is that too much to ask for for
a right winger?
I don't know, probably.
>> Yeah.
And then one last fact we're
not going to play the video, but
Fauci does explain, his concern is
that there are variants and you're
anywhere between two and eight
times more likely to be susceptible
to a variant if you have been
vaccinated, than the way you're
vulnerable to the original strain.
That makes sense, but the variants
are what he's concerned about,
that's it.
We have to take- >> Yeah,
I was just going to say, that's
where I think, in my pinion, and
it's not anywhere near as weighty
as the doctor's or scientist's,
is that he's being overly careful.
The variants are not necessarily
here yet, we don't know what
the variants can do.
So, should a public health official
be really careful?
Yes, that's his job.
His job is to be careful, right?
But you have to of course,
like I said, you have to have your
own risk tolerance.
So if I'm vaccinated, for
me, personally,
I'm not going to be that concerned
about a variant that might or might
not harm me that isn't here yet.
But that's on everybody and
you got to go figure that out for
yourself.