WEEKEND.
BACK TO YOU IN THE STUDIO.
>> THE LIFE OF OAK PARK NATIVE
ERNEST HEMINGWAY IS THE SUBJECT
OF KEN BURNS AND LYNN NOVICK'S
NEWEST PBS DOCUMENTARY SET TO
AIR MONDAY AFTER "CHICAGO
TONIGHT."
HERE IS A SHORT CLIP ABOUT HIS
IDYLLIC CHILDHOOD IN THE WESTERN
CHICAGO SUBURB.
>> ERNST NEST MILLER HEMINGWAY
WAS BORN JULY 1, 1899.
THE SECOND OF SIX CHILDREN AND
ENJOYED WHAT SEEMED TO BE AN
IDYLLIC BOYHOOD.
HE HAS FOUR ADORING SISTERS AND
A YOUNGER BROTHER.
THEY ALL LIVED IN A BIG
COMFORTABLE HOME IN THE CHICAGO
SUBURB OF OAK PARK.
A COMPLACENT, WELL MANNERED
COMMUNITY WITH NO SALONS AND
SALOONS AND SO MUCH CHURCHES IT
CALLED SAINT'S REST.
>> AND IT LOOKS THE SAME AND
JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THE
WRITER IS VERNA KALE PROFESSOR
OF ENGLISH AND PROFESSOR OF
HEMINGWAY LETTERS PROJECT AT
PENN STATE UNIVERSITY.
WELCOME TO "CHICAGO TONIGHT."
>> WE DID AN EVENT WITH KEN
BURNS AND LYNN NOVICK ABOUT THIS
AND THE FILM STARTS OFF WITH THE
CHILDHOOD IN OAK PARK IT IS A
HOT TOPIC HE REFERRED TO IT AS A
QUOTE PLACE OF BROAD LAWNS AND
NARROW MINDS.
HOW DID OAK PARK INFLUENCE WHO
HE WOULD BECOME?
>> I THINK HIS CHILDHOOD WAS
VERY IMPORTANT FOR ERNEST
HEMINGWAY.
HE HAD A GOOD EDUCATION THERE AS
A STUDENT AND A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITIES TO GO INTO CHICAGO
AND GO TO THE ART MUSEUMS AND
THE NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUMS AND
TO PARTICIPATE IN COMMUNITY
EVENTS IN OAK PARK.
WE KNOW HE TOOK MUSIC LESSONS
AND HE READ WIDELY AND HE WAS IN
LITTLE PROGRAMS AT CHURCH AND
THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK GROWING UP HE HAD KIND
OF A RICH EDUCATION AND EXPOSURE
TO THE ARTS AND I THINK THAT
THAT PROBABLY HAD A GOOD EFFECT
ON HIM A YOUNG MAN WHO WOULD
GROW UP TO BE A FAMOUS WRITER.
>> AND SOME OF THE PICTURES HE
IS AT HIS FAMILY'S VACATION
COMPOUND IN MICHIGAN.
WE DID AN EVENT FOR WTTW MEMBERS
AND WE TALKED TO BURN AND I
POSED THE QUESTION ABOUT OAK
PARK AND THE WAR'S INFLUENCE ON
HEMINGWAY.
>> YOU HAVE A VICTORIAN WORLD
SLAMMING UP AGAINST THE FIRST
WORLD WAR.
AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS
GOING TO SURVIVE THAT
CONTRADICTION.
AS WE SAY IN THE FILM EVERYTHING
HIS PARENTS PREPARED HIM FOR WAS
NO MORE.
THAT WORLD IS GONE.
>> AS YOU WELL KNOW HE GOES OFF
TO WAR AND COMES BACK AND HE
STARTS TO BUILD THE MYTH OF
ERNEST HEMINGWAY AS HE STARTS
HIS WRITING CAREER.
WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT TO HIM
TO CREATE THIS MYTH
OBVIOUSLYIZED --
MYTHOLOGIZED VERSION OF HIMSELF?
>> WHEN HE COMES BACK FROM THE
WAR HE IS REALLY YOUNG AND HE IS
STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO
HE IS.
AND WHAT HE IS GOING TO BE AND
HE FELT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
BECOME A WRITER.
BUT UP UNTIL THAT POINT, BEYOND
JUST PUBLICATIONS FOR SCHOOL, HE
HADN'T MANAGED TO WRITE ANY
FICTION.
HE WORKED AS A JOURNALIST, HE
HAD WORKED WRITING SORT OF AD
COPY NOT VERY SUCCESSFULLY.
BUT HE HAD NOT YET MADE HIS MARK
AS A FICTION WRITER.
AND SO HE IS TRYING TO PRESENT
HIMSELF IN A WAY THAT IS GOING
TO LAUNCH HIM INTO THIS WORLD
THAT HE WANTS TO BE A PART OF.
AND IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING TO
THINK OF IT THAT HE DIDN'T YET
KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE WAS GOING
TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
BUT HE WAS A GUY WHO REALLY
LOVED EXCITEMENT AND FRIENDS AND
LIVING LIFE TO THE FULLEST AND
SO IT'S KIND OF CHARMING IN A
WAY TO SEE THAT SIDE OF HIM.
AND ALSO A LITTLE BIT IF WE LOOK
AT IT AS A POSSIBLE REACTION TO
THE TRAUMA OF WAR THAT HE HAD
EXPERIENCED, WE CAN ALSO LOOK AT
IT IN THAT WAY AS WELL AND FEEL
SYMPATHY FOR HIM.
>> IN THE FILM THERE IS A
NARRATOR SAYS THE REALITY OF
ERNEST HEMINGWAY WAS MORE
INTERESTING THAN THE MYTH AND
NOT AS IF IT WAS A TOTAL MYTH HE
HUNTED IN AFRICA HE WAS A
FISHERMAN HE DID ALL THIS
MASCULINE THINGS.
BUT YOU HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO
PERSONAL LETTERS.
WHAT WAS THE REALITY BEHIND THE
MYTH?
>> THERE IS A A GREAT QUOTE IN
THE FILM OF HIS WIFE HADLEY
SAYING THAT HE HAD SO MANY SIDES
THAT HE DECIDES GEOMETRY.
AND THAT IS TRUE.
IT'S HARD TO NAIL DOWN WHO WAS
THE REAL ERNEST HEMINGWAY
BECAUSE HE REALLY DID HAVE ALL
OF THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS TO
HIS PERSONALITY.
HE REALLY WAS THE GREAT
ADVENTURER.
HE WAS THE LITERARY GUY.
BUT HE ALSO HAD A SENSITIVE
SIDE.
HE COULD BE A DEVOTED FATHER AND
HUSBAND AND FRIEND.
HE COULD GET HIS FEELINGS HURT
BY HIS FRIENDS.
THAT IS ONE SURPRISING ASPECT
THAT WE SEE IN THE LETTERS IS A
LOT OF THE RAGING THAT HE DOES
AND BLUSTERING ON THE SURFACE
IT'S PART OF HIM REACTING BADLY
TO BEING SNUBBED IN A REVIEW OR
BEING SNUBBED BY A FRIEND.
YOU GET A SENSE HE WAS A
SENSITIVE GUY.
>> HE CLEARLY WANTED THE
ADORATION OF THE PUBLIC.
WE HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT HIS
WRITING STYLE YET.
ONE THEME THAT POPS UP IS DEATH.
IN THE SHORT STORIES IN HIS
LATER WORK.
TALK ABOUT HOW DEATH KIND OF IS
THE OVERARCING THEME IN THIS
WORK?
>> IT DEFINITELY SHOWS NEWSPAPER
HIS WORK.
ONE OF THE PASS SAMES IS IN THE
FAREWELL TO ARMS WHERE THE MAIN
CHARACTER FREDERICK HENRY GETS
WOUNDED AND HE FEELS HIS SOUL OR
SOMETHING PASS OUT OF HIS BODY
AND THEN THERE IS AN INTERIOR
MONOLOGUE WHERE HE IS IT IS
WRONG TO THINK THIS JUST ENDS
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED AND YOU
GET A VIVID DESCRIPTION OF WHAT
IT FEELS LIKE TO DIE AND THEN GO
BACK INTO YOUR BODY.
AND YOU CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER
DID ERNEST HEMINGWAY TAKE THIS
DESCRIPTION FROM HIS OWN
EXPERIENCE OF BEING BLOWN UP ON
THE BANKS OF THE RIVER?
AND SO IF HE'S OBSESSED WITH
DEATH MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT HE CONFRONTED AT
A YOUNG AGE.
AND ONE OF THE THEMES THAT GOES
THROUGH HIS WORK IS LIFE AS A
FIXED RACE.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT
GOING TO SURVIVE IT.
AND THERE IS A TITLE TO THAT
SHORT STORY WINNER TAKE NOTHING.
EVERYBODY IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO
MEET DEATH.
HIS WORK REALLY DOES EXPLORE
THAT IDEA.
>> AND WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS
LEFT THE STYLE THE SHORT
SENTENCES WERE SO CRUCIAL TO HIS
WORK.
HOW DID THAT IMPACT AMERICAN
WRITING AFTER HIS CAREER?
>> I THINK IT CHANGEDDED IT
FOREVER.
HE WANTED TO HAVE BIG IDEAS WITH
AS SIMPLY STATED AS HE 0 COULD
MAKE IT.
AND THAT HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT
PEOPLE HAVE GONE ON TO EMULATE
TO SUCH A DEGREE THAT IT
PERMANENTLY CHANGED SHORT
STORIES AND THE NOVEL AND
CREATIVE NONFICTION AS WELL.
>> THERE'S SO MUCH TO UNPACK AND
SIX HOURS OF A DOCUMENTARY TO
UNPACK WITH ERNEST HEMINGWAY.