>> Jeyan: INFLATION HAS EVERYONE FEELING THE PINCH OF HIGHER PRICES.
BUT ADVOCATES FOR PEOPLE LIVING ON ODSP -- THE ONTARIO DISABILITY SUPPORT PROGRAM --
SAY IT'S MAKING THINGS UNTENABLE.
WITH US FOR MORE, THE NEWEST MEMBER OF OUR ONTARIO HUBS TEAM, AFFORDABILITY JOURNALIST,
KAT ESCHNER.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM >> Kat: THANK YOU SO MUCH, JEYAN.
>> Jeyan: SO CANADIANS GOT A LITTLE BIT OF GOOD NEWS THIS WEEK, ACTUALLY.
THERE WAS A REPORT THAT THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX WENT DOWN TO ABOUT 7%.
BUT GROCERY PRICES ARE STILL HIGH AND RENT ISN'T GETTING ANY LOWER.
CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF SOCIAL ASSISTANCE PAYMENTS VERSUS WHAT'S REALISTICALLY
NEEDED FOR COMFORTABLE LIVING?
>> Kat: ABSOLUTELY.
SO FOR STARTERS, AS YOU ACKNOWLEDGE, THE OVERALL INFLATION RATE HAS GONE DOWN,
BUT PRICES ARE STILL GOING UP ON A LOT OF IMPORTANT CATEGORIES, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT WE ALL
NEED LIKE HOUSING AND FOOD.
SO FOR SOCIAL ASSISTANCE, THE ONTARIO DISABILITY SUPPORT PROGRAM, WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT UP TOP, PAYS OUT AT $1,227 PER MONTH AFTER A RECENT 5% RATE HIKE FROM THE
FORD GOVERNMENT.
AND ONTARIO WORKS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, INCOME SUPPORT FOR ANYONE WHO CAN WORK BUT FOR WHATEVER
REASON ISN'T ABLE TO EARN ENOUGH IS JUST $733 A MONTH.
NOW, I MEAN -- >> Jeyan: IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A LOT.
>> Kat: WE BOTH PAY BILLS.
IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY.
SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT WHAT A LIVABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY IS, I THINK THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT
A FEW DIFFERENT METRICS.
SO THE OFFICIAL POVERTY LINE IS AROUND $1,660.
THAT'S KIND OF AN OUTDATED METRIC JUST BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT
INFLATION IS DOING CURRENTLY WITH THE POVERTY LINE.
$2200 IS WHAT ADVOCATES HAVE SUGGESTED MIGHT BE A MORE FEASIBLE POVERTY LINE.
BUT I THINK THE NUMBER TO REALLY LOOK AT WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT WHAT A LIVABLE AMOUNT OF
MONEY TO MAKE DO ON IS THE CERB PAYOUT OF $2,000 A MONTH.
THAT'S A NUMBER THAT PEOPLE I INTERVIEWED FOR THIS STORY BROUGHT UP A NUMBER OF TIMES.
THEY'RE LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE PANDEMIC HAS SHOWN US THAT $2,000 IS THE FLOOR OF WHAT THE
GOVERNMENT DEEMS IS AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO GIVE PEOPLE TO LIVE WHEN THEY
HAVE TO STEP IN TO HELP.
SO WHY ARE WE STILL BEING PAID MUCH LESS THAN THAT?
>> Jeyan: SO ADVOCATES HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR A DOUBLING OF SUPPORT PAYMENTS.
IT GOT THE ATTENTION OF THE ONTARIO NDP.
HOW HAS THAT HELPED?
WHERE HAS THAT CONVERSATION GONE?
>> Kat: I THINK THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE.
SO THE DOUBLING THE ODSP IDEA IS NOT A NEW IDEA.
BEFORE THE ELECTION IT WAS BEING CALLED FOR.
IT HAD SOME ATTENTION FROM PARTIES AT THAT TIME, BUT ONLY THE GREENS GOT ON BOARD TO
ACTUALLY SUPPORT A FUTURE POLICY OF THIS.
HOWEVER, EVEN THEN, TALKING ABOUT DOUBLING THE ODSP, TALKING ABOUT RAISING THE RATE, REALLY
MEANT THAT THAT HAD TO BE SOMETHING THAT EACH PARTY HAD IN ITS PLATFORM.
WE SAW THAT WITH THE PCs.
THEY ACTUALLY HAD TO PUT IN PLACE A POLICY THAT THEY WOULD RAISE BY 5% AND THEY SAID THEY
WOULD INDEX IT TO INFLATION ALTHOUGH THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE YET, ANY FORWARD-GOING
INCREASES.
SO IT'S HELPED GET IT ON THE AGENDA.
I THINK FOR CONTEXT WE NEED TO CONSIDER HOW MUCH MONEY THAT WOULD BE.
SO DOUBLING THE ODSP AT CURRENT RATES, SO FOR A SINGLE PERSON LIVING ALONE OR LIVING IN A
CONGREGATE SETTING BUT NOT WITH FAMILY, THE RATE WOULD BE $2,454 INSTEAD OF $1,227.
THAT'S A LOT MORE MONEY.
FOR AN ONTARIO WORKS RECIPIENT, THAT AMOUNT WOULD BE $1,466, WHICH AGAIN IS A LOT MORE MONEY.
AND I THINK THAT REALLY WHAT THIS HAS DONE IS HIGHLIGHTED HOW LITTLE MONEY THESE PEOPLE ARE
CURRENTLY RECEIVING.
I ASKED SOME PEOPLE I INTERVIEWED FOR THIS STORY ABOUT WHAT DOUBLING THE RATE WOULD
MEAN FOR THEM.
AND THEY PRETTY MUCH UNIVERSALLY SAID IT WOULD MEAN MORE STABILITY.
IT WOULD MEAN THEY HAD A LITTLE MORE CHOICE IN HOW AND WHERE THEY LIVED, A LITTLE MORE AGENCY
IN WHAT THEY CHOSE TO BUY AND THE ABILITY TO PLAN FOR THE FUTURE IN A WAY THAT
CURRENTLY -- IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO ON THE INCOME THEY HAVE NOW.
>> Jeyan: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.
SO LIVING BEFORE THE POVERTY LEVEL CAN AFFECT EVERY PART OF LIFE.
I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME COMMON THEMES THERE.
WHAT ARE PEOPLE SAYING, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU INTERVIEWED, FOR YOUR FIRST STORY?
>> Kat: I THINK THERE ARE SOME COMMON THEMES HERE.
THE NUMBER ONE THING I HEARD ABOUT WAS HOUSING AND FOOD.
TO ZERO IN ON FOOD.
PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY I TALKED TO FOR THE STORY COULD TELL ME TO THE DOLLAR HOW MUCH STAPLES
THEY BOUGHT HAD GONE UP.
THEY REALLY NOTICED ANY IMPACT ON THEIR GROCERY BILL.
MITCHELL TREMBLAY LIVES ON JUST UNDER $9 A DAY.
THAT'S FOR FOOD, FOR TOILETRIES, FOR ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE TO GO INTO HIS $9 A DAY.
YOU CAN IMAGINE A $1 INFLATION ON THE COST OF A LOAF OF BREAD, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD BE A HUGE
IMPACT.
>> Jeyan: VERY INTERESTING STUFF THERE.
I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE RESPONSE FROM ALL THE GOVERNMENTS.
LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT SAID IN PART.
THIS WAS IN AN EMAIL THAT YOU GOT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
GIVE US A LITTLE BACKGROUND BEHIND THAT.
>> Kat: RIGHT.
SO WHAT HAD HAD HAPPENED IS I HAD CONTACTED THE OFFICE OF THE MINISTER, MERRILEE FULLERTON,
SHE'S THE MINISTER OF CHILDREN, COMMUNITY AND SOCIAL SERVICES, AND SHE IS THE MINISTER IN
CHARGE OF THIS FILE, AND I HAD SAID, "CAN I INTERVIEW MINISTER FULLERTON ABOUT WHAT I'M HEARING
FROM PEOPLE ON THESE PROGRAMS AND WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE DOING FURTHER TO THE 5% RATE
INCREASE THEY HAD ALREADY INTRODUCED.
THEY SAID SHE DECLINED TO BE INTERVIEWED.
SHE DIDN'T WANT TO SPEAK TO ME FOR WHATEVER REASON.
BUT THEY DID SAY, "OH, YOU CAN SEND IN SOME QUESTIONS AND WE WILL RESPOND TO THOSE QUESTIONS
BY EMAIL."
SO I SENT IN A LIST OF SIX SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THERE ARE NOW, ANY
PLANNED INCREASES TO RATES, ANY FORWARD-LOOKING THINGS, AND ALSO THE PUSH TO DOUBLE THE RATES.
WHAT I RECEIVED BACK WAS THIS RESPONSE WHICH DIDN'T SUBSTANTIVELY ADDRESS ANY OF
THOSE QUESTIONS OR DIRECTLY ADDRESS THEM AND WAS VERY IN LINE WITH THE THINGS THAT
MINISTER FULLERTON HAS SAID IN THE HOUSE ON THIS PORTFOLIO AND THE THINGS THAT OTHER MINISTERS
HAVE ALSO AND PREMIER FORD HAVE ALSO ADDRESSED, YOU KNOW, AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
SO IT WAS -- IT WAS NOT REALLY A RESPONSE TO THE QUESTIONS I WAS ASKING AND IT WAS SORT OF THE
SAME STRATEGY THEY'VE BEEN USING FOR A WHILE.
I DID POST ON MY TWITTER BOTH THE QUESTIONS I ASKED, A SCREEN SHOT, AND THE ANSWER, FULL
ANSWER I RECEIVED.
SO IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED, THEY CAN LOOK AT THAT.
>> Jeyan: I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE AS WELL IN TERMS OF THE LIBERALS AND GREENS.
HAVE THEY WEIGHED IN NOT ONLY ON THE 5% AS WELL BUT JUST SORT OF THE UNAFFORDABILITY RIGHT NOW
FOR A LOT OF ONTARIANS?
>> Kat: YEAH, FOR SURE.
I MEAN, FROM LOOKING AT THE HOUSE, THE HOUSE SESSION SO FAR, EVERY PARTY HAS RAISED THE ISSUE
OF ODSP AND ONTARIO WORKS IN SOME WAY.
SO THE NDP IS NOW PRETTY MUCH FIRMLY BEHIND THIS DOUBLE ODSP PROGRAM PUSH.
THE GREENS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE.
THE LIBERAL PARTY HAS BEEN A LITTLE QUIETER ON THIS FILE BUT THEY HAVEN'T SAID NOTHING.
THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE THAT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS SO FAR.
THEY'RE CURRENTLY CALLING FOR A 20% RATE HIKE ON ODSP AND ONTARIO WORKS AND THE REVIEW OF
A UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME PROGRAM WHICH IS ANOTHER WAY OF ADDRESSING THIS PROBLEM.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THROUGH THESE VERY MEANS TESTED, ONEROUS PROGRAMS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO
ACCESS.
IT COULD BE THROUGH ANOTHER METHOD.
>> Jeyan: SO YOU TALKED ABOUT SOLUTIONS THERE.
THERE SEEMS LIKE AN OBVIOUS ONE.
BUT BASED ON YOUR RESEARCH, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> Kat: LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT ADVOCATES AND PEOPLE ON THESE PROGRAMS HAVE SAID ABOUT
IT, LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN TRIED IN THE PAST, IT'S HARD TO THINK THAT THE SOLUTION
DOES NOT IN SOME WAY JUST MORE MONEY GETTING TO PEOPLE ON THESE PROGRAMS WHO NEED TO LIVE.
I MEAN IF YOU EVEN LOOK AT THE YOU KNOW AT THE TIME CONTROVERSIAL RATES THAT
MIKE HARRIS SET WHEN THESE PROGRAMS WERE INTRODUCED IN THERE CURRENT FORM IN THE
90'S, ODSP WAS FOR A SINGLE PERSON WAS $930 A MONTH IF IT JUST KEPT PACE WITH THE OVERALL
INFLATION RATE AS WHICH WE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED IS NOT THE RATE THAT FOOD AND HOUSING HAVE
GONE UP AT A MUCH HIGHER RATE IT WOULD BE $1552 TODAY.
SIMILARLY ONTARIO WORKS IT WAS $520 IN 1995 AND IF IT KEPT PACE WITH INFLATION IT
WOULD BE AT $904 WHICH IS ABOUT $200 ABOVE THE CURRENT RATE, SO IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW
EVEN THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MEASURE UM YOU KNOW EVEN BY THAT MEASURE MORE MONEY IS NOT
SOME HOW HAPPEN TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION >> Jeyan: KAT, REALLY GREAT
STUFF.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM.
>> Kat: MY PLEASURE.
[ ♪ ]