we may be able to help.
>>> WELCOME BACK.
IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO THAT A MAN
SENT 16 PACKAGES CONTAINING PIPE
BOMBS TO DEMOCRATS AND OTHER
PERCEIVED TRUMP OPPONENTS.
IN OCTOBER, THE FBI ARRESTED 13
PEOPLE IN CONNECTION WITH A PLOT
TO KIDNAP MICHIGAN’S DEMOCRATIC
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER.
VIRGINIA’S GOVERNOR WAS ALSO ON
THE KIDNAPPING LIST.
THROUGHOUT THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY,
JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN THREATENED
BY TRUMP SUPPORTERS.
SADLY, I CAN ATTEST TO THAT.
IN THE WAKE OF WEDNESDAY’S
EVENT, WHY DID SO MANY PEOPLE
REMAIN SILENT?
JOINING ME IS REPUBLICAN SENATOR
PAT TOOMEY OF PENNSYLVANIA.
SENATOR TOOMEY, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
BEEN A ROUGH WEEK.
WELCOME BACK TO "MEET THE
PRESS."
>> GOOD MORNING, CHUCK.
>> LET ME START WITH THIS.
THERE’S CALLS FOR RESIGNATION,
IMPEACHMENT, REMOVAL BY WAY OF
THE 25th AMENDMENT.
YOU, YOURSELF, SAID HE’S
COMMITTED IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES.
IN YOUR VIEW, WHAT IS THE MOST
APPROPRIATE WAY FOR DONALD TRUMP
TO EXIT OFFICE?
>> WELL, I THINK THE BEST WAY
FOR OUR COUNTRY, CHUCK, IS FOR
THE PRESIDENT TO RESIGN AND GO
AWAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MAY NOT BE
LIKELY, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD
BE BEST.
IT DOES NOT LOOK AS THOUGH THERE
IS THE WILL OR THE CONSENSUS TO
EXERCISE THE 25th AMENDMENT
OPTION, AND I DON’T THINK
THERE’S TIME TO DO AN
IMPEACHMENT.
THERE’S TEN DAYS LEFT BEFORE THE
PRESIDENT LEAVES ANYWAY.
I THINK THE BEST THING WOULD BE
A RESIGNATION.
>> THE ISSUE OF IMPEACHMENT, YOU
HAVE SAID HE COMMITTED
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES AND THERE’S
CLEARLY THE TIMING ISSUE.
ONE OF THE PENALTIES THAT COME
WITH IMPEACHMENT, THIS IS ALMOST
AS MUCH ABOUT REMOVING HIM FROM
CURRENT OFFICE, BUT IT WOULD
PREVENT HIM FROM EVER HOLDING
FEDERAL OFFICE AGAIN ASSUMING A
MAJORITY SENATE VOTE IF HE’S
CONVICTED, WOULD ALSO DO THAT.
SHOULD THAT BE THE GOAL?
HOW TO MAKE SURE THIS MAN NEVER
HOLDS FEDERAL OFFICE EVER AGAIN
BECAUSE OF WHAT HE DID ON
WEDNESDAY?
>> YEAH, SO CHUCK, A COUPLE
THINGS.
ONE, IT’S NOT CLEAR THE
CONSTITUTION PERMITS
IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION AND
PROHIBITION AGAINST EVER SERVING
AGAIN WHICH IS A SEPARATE VOTE,
THAT THAT’S PERMITTED AFTER A
PERSON HAS LEFT OFFICE WHICH IS
WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN HERE.
SO WHETHER THAT COULD BE DONE IN
A BINDING FASHION IS REALLY AN
OPEN QUESTION.
THAT’S NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, I WOULD CERTAINLY
HOPE -- AND I ACTUALLY DO
BELIEVE -- THAT THE PRESIDENT
HAS DISQUALIFIED HIMSELF.
I DON’T THINK HE’S A VIABLE
CANDIDATE FOR OFFICE EVER AGAIN
BECAUSE OF THE OUTRAGEOUS
BEHAVIOR IN THE POST ELECTION
PERIOD.
SO THOSE WOULD BE MY TWO POINTS.
>> THROUGHOUT HIS TERM, SENATOR,
YOU WERE ON HERE QUITE A FEW
TIMES WHEN UNCOMFORTABLY HE
WOULD SAY SOMETHING OR DO
SOMETHING WHERE I WOULD ASK YOU
ABOUT HIS RHETORIC.
YOU HAD A CONSISTENT ANSWER.
I WANT TO SHOW SOME FOLKS THOSE
ANSWERS.
HERE WE GO.
>> I DON’T SPEND A LOT OF TIME
TRYING TO EVALUATE AND ANALYZE
WHY THE PRESIDENT COMES TO THE
CONCLUSIONS HE COMES TO.
>> I DON’T SPEND A LOT OF TIME
FOCUSING ON THE PRESIDENT’S
TWEETS AND THINGS THAT THE
PRESIDENT SAYS.
WHAT I FOCUS MORE ON IS WHAT IS
HE GOING TO ACTUALLY DO.
>> I THINK IT’S A LONG WAY TO
ATTRIBUTING ANY KIND OF REAL
LINK BETWEEN WHAT THE PRESIDENT
MIGHT SAY OR TWEET AND THE
EXTRAORDINARY TYPE OF MADNESS
THAT LEADS SOMEONE TO MASSACRE
PEOPLE.
>> LOOK, IN FAIRNESS, I ALSO
WANT TO PLAY WHAT YOU SAID ON
THE SENATE FLOOR THIS WEEK.
HERE’S THAT.
>> WE WITNESSED TODAY THE DAMAGE
THAT CAN RESULT WHEN MEN IN
POWER AND RESPONSIBILITY REFUSE
TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH.
WE SAW BLOODSHED BECAUSE A
DEMAGOGUE CHOSE TO SPREAD
FALSEHOODS AND SOW DISTRUST OF
HIS OWN FELLOW AMERICANS.
>> SENATOR, YOU KNOW THE
QUESTION THAT’S COMING, AND I’M
SURE YOU’VE HEARD IT FROM A LOT
OF PEOPLE.
DO YOU REGRET NOT SPEAKING OUT
SOONER, AND DID YOU
UNDERESTIMATE THE THREAT FROM
HIS RHETORIC?
>> CHUCK, I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT
TO MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN
THE PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR PRIOR
TO THE ELECTION AND HIS BEHAVIOR
AFTER THE ELECTION.
FOR YEARS THE PRESIDENT SAID
RIDICULOUS THINGS.
HE LIED FREQUENTLY, MANY
OBJECTIONABLE THINGS.
IF THEY WERE SUFFICIENTLY
OBJECTIONABLE, I DID PUBLICLY
WEIGH IN, AND I DID MANY, MANY
TIMES.
HE TWEETED HUNDREDS OF TIMES A
DAY MANY DAYS, AND I STILL DON’T
THINK THAT I SHOULD HAVE GONE
BACK AND ATTEMPTED TO BE HIS
TWITTER EDITOR.
AFTER THE ELECTION, HE TOOK THIS
TO AN ENTIRE DIFFERENT PLACE,
ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE DIFFERENT.
COME ON.
RECRUITING THOUSANDS OF
AMERICANS FROM AROUND THE
COUNTRY TO DESCEND ON THE
CAPITOL PROMISING A WILD RIDE
AND INCITING THEM TO ATTACK THE
CAPITOL BUILDING SO AS TO
PREVENT THE CONSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSIBILITY OF THE VICE
PRESIDENT AND THE CONGRESS TO
COMPLETE THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER
OF POWER AFTER AN ELECTION, ALSO
THAT HE COULD TRY TO STAY IN
OFFICE.
THAT IS WILDLY BEYOND ANYTHING
THAT ANY OF US -- CERTAINLY THAT
I EVER CONTEMPLATED AND ANYTHING
THAT HE DID BEFORE.
SO I DON’T THINK THAT THIS
UNBELIEVABLE BEHAVIOR OF
WEDNESDAY, FOR INSTANCE, COULD
HAVE BEEN REASONABLY EXPECTED.
>> YOU SAY THAT, AND WITH ALL
DUE RESPECT, AN ENTIRE PRIMARY
CAMPAIGN WAS WAGED AGAINST HIM
IN 2016 WHERE SOME OF THE VERY
PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THIS
PRESIDENT STILL, LIKE TED CRUZ
CALLED HIM A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR,
WORRIED HIS RHETORIC WAS GOING
TO GO IN ANOTHER -- AND MANY
PEOPLE DIDN’T BELIEVE IT.
YOU, YOURSELF, YOU EXPLAINED TO
ME, YOU DIDN’T REALLY BELIEVE
THIS WAS GOING TO GO THERE.
I GUESS A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS GO
WHY?
HOW DID YOU MISS IT?
>> YOU KNOW, HOW DID HALF OF
AMERICA MISS IT OR MORE THAN
HALF OF AMERICA?
I’M SURE MANY DEMOCRATS THAT
VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN DIDN’T
EXPECT THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN,
CHUCK.
IT’S BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT
SPIRALED DOWN INTO A KIND OF
MADNESS THAT WAS DIFFERENT.
I’M SORRY IF PEOPLE DON’T
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.
I THINK WHAT HE DID THIS PAST
WEEK IS WILDLY DIFFERENT FROM
THE OFFENSIVE TWEETS THAT WERE
COMMON DURING HIS PRESIDENCY,
AND I DON’T THINK THAT THOSE
TWEETS CLEARLY INDICATED THAT
THIS WAS COMING.
>> WHAT SHOULD -- WHAT KIND OF
RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU HOLD
SENATORS HAWLEY AND CRUZ FOR
WHAT HAPPENED ON WEDNESDAY?
>> LOOK, I THINK THE -- THEY’RE
GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF SOUL
SEARCHING TO DO.
THE PROBLEM IS THEY WERE
COMPLICIT IN THE BIG LIE, THIS
BIG LIE THAT DONALD TRUMP WON
THE ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE AND
IT WAS ALL STOLEN.
THEY COMPOUNDED THAT WITH THIS
NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THIS COULD
ALL BE REVERSED IN THE FINAL
MOMENTS OF THE CONGRESSIONAL
PROCEEDINGS.
SO THAT’S GOING TO HAUNT THEM
FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
>> I KNOW YOU ARE NOT CRAZY
ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER
OVERREACH.
WOULD IT BE OVERREACH TO KICK
EITHER MAN OUT OF THE SENATE?
>> I THINK SO.
I THINK THEY’RE GOING TO PAY A
VERY HEAVY PRICE.
WHAT THEY DID WAS -- IT WAS
TECHNICALLY PERMISSIBLE UNDER
THE SENATE RULES.
THEIR VOTERS WILL DECIDE WHETHER
THEY GET ANOTHER TERM, AND
THEY’RE BOTH YOUNG ENOUGH MEN
THAT I’M SURE THEY WOULD
CERTAINLY LIKE TO DO THAT.
SO I THINK IT SHOULD BE LEFT TO
THE VOTERS OF THEIR STATE TO
DECIDE WHAT THEIR FATE IS.
>> YOU REGRET YOUR VOTE FOR
PRESIDENT NOW?
>> KNOWING WHAT I KNEW THEN, I
THINK THE 75 MILLION AMERICANS
MAKING THIS REALIZATION BETWEEN
THIS RADICALIZATION OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND AN
ADMINISTRATION THAT HAD VERY
SIGNIFICANT SUCCESSES, I
UNDERSTAND.
IT WAS A RATIONAL DECISION.
NOBODY COULD HAVE ANTICIPATED, I
DON’T THINK, SUBSEQUENT TO THE
ELECTION.
>> SENATOR PAT TOOMEY,