>>> I AM SO FOR THE DEATH
PENALTY.
AND I THINK AS FAR AS TERRORISM
IS CONCERNED, DEATH PENALTY WITH
A SPEEDY TRIAL.
>> I’VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE
DEATH PENALTY.
I’VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE DEATH
PENALTY.
I DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND PEOPLE
THAT DON’T.
>> IF WE DON’T GET TOUGH ON THE
DRUG DEALERS, WE’RE WASTING OUR
TIME.
AND THAT TOUGHNESS INCLUDES THE
DEATH PENALTY.
>> I’M ALSO DIRECTING THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO PROPOSE
LEGISLATION ENSURING THAT THOSE
WHO COMMIT HATE CRIMES AND MASS
MURDERS FACE THE DEATH PENALTY.
AND THAT THIS CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
BE DELIVERED QUICKLY,
DECISIVELY, AND WITHOUT YEARS OF
NEEDLESS DELAY.
>> YOU KNOW, FROM 2003 TO THIS
JULY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
DIDN’T EXECUTE ANYONE, DESPITE
THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT DOES HAVE THE DEATH
PENALTY.
AND THEN DONALD TRUMP AND
WILLIAM BARR CHANGED THAT.
AND IN FIVE MONTHS THEY HAVE PUT
EIGHT PEOPLE TO DEATH.
THEY HAVE SCHEDULED FIVE MORE
PEOPLE TO BE PUT TO DEATH AS
THEY RUSH TOWARDS THE EXITS ON
JANUARY 20th.
THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY GET
THOSE KILLINGS IN BEFORE THEY
LEAVE.
AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE LEARNING
THE PRESIDENT IS DISCUSSING
GIVING OUT PARDONS LIKE PARTY
FAVORS TO HIS ASSOCIATES AND
FAMILY.
WHICH IS WHAT LAW AND ORDER HAS
ALWAYS MEANT TO TRUMP FROM THE
BEGINNING.
FOR MY FRIENDS, EVERYTHING, AND
FOR MY ENEMIES, THE LAW.
SOMEONE WHO HAS SPENT A LARGE
PART OF THEIR CAREER TRYING TO
SAVE INMATES FROM EXECUTION AND
DISMANTLE THE ENTIRE MACHINERY
OF DEATH IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM, BRYAN STEPHENSON,
FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF THE EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE,
AND HE JOINS ME NOW.
BRYAN, CAN YOU GIVE US A LITTLE
BACKGROUND ON THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT’S USE OF THE DEATH
PENALTY?
WHAT CHANGED UNDER DONALD TRUMP?
>> WELL, THERE ARE TREMENDOUS
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RELIABILITY
AND THE CREDIBILITY OF MANY OF
THESE DEATH SENTENCES, AND SO
MOST PROSECUTORS HAD BEEN TRYING
TO RESOLVE THOSE ISSUES.
AND THEN WE’VE SEEN IN THE LAST
SEVERAL MONTHS THIS RUSH TO
EXECUTE.
AND IT’S REALLY CATASTROPHIC.
I’VE OFTEN ARGUED THAT THE DEATH
PENALTY CAN’T BE UNDERSTOOD BY
ASKING THE QUESTION, DO PEOPLE
DESERVE TO DIE FOR THE CRIMES
THEY’VE COMMITTED?
THE THRESHOLD QUESTION
SURROUNDING THE DEATH PENALTY
IS, DO WE DESERVE TO KILL?
DOES OUR SYSTEM, DO OUR
DECISION-MAKERS HAVE THE
INTEGRITY, THE CREDIBILITY, THE
FAIRNESS NEEDED TO EXERCISE THIS
EXTRAORDINARY POWER?
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THE
POWER TO KILL.
IT’S THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY
POWER A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL HAS,
AND THEY EXPECT THAT POWER TO BE
EXERCISED RELIABLY, FAIRLY.
AND WHAT WE’VE SEEN IS A REALLY
DRAMATIC EXAMPLE OF RECKLESS
POLITICAL USE OF THIS POWER IN A
WAY THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED IN
AMERICAN HISTORY.
THESE EXECUTIONS ARE BEING
EXPEDITED ON A SCHEDULE FOR
POLITICAL POINTS.
AND I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT I
DON’T THINK I’VE SEEN MORE
DRAMATIC EVIDENCE ABOUT WHY THE
DEATH PENALTY SHOULD
BEABOLISHED.
I’M HOPING THAT THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION WILL HELP
CONGRESS GET TO ABOLITION.
BECAUSE WE’VE NOW SEEN THAT OUR
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND OUR
GOVERNMENT CAN’T BE TRUSTED WITH
SOMETHING THIS EXTRAORDINARY
WHEN IT’S GOING TO BE USED AS
RECKLESSLY AS WE’RE SEEING IT BE
USED TODAY.
>> YEAH, THERE’S TWO, TO ME,
TRULY TROUBLING THINGS.
I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THE
DEATH PENALTY.
I STRONGLY OPPOSE IT PERSONALLY,
MORALLY, POLITICALLY.
BUT EVEN THAT ASIDE, THE IDEA OF
STARTING IN JULY OF AN ELECTION
YEAR YOU LINE THIS UP AS CLEARLY
A KIND OF RE-ELECTION YEAR
GAMBIT.
THAT -- AS A SHOW OF FORCE.
AND THAT PEOPLE’S LIVES, THAT
THE EXECUTION OF PRISONERS WOULD
BE PART OF THAT.
AND THEN AFTER YOU ARE DEFEATED
IN A LAME DUCK, WHERE WE EXPECT,
LIKE, SUSPECT PARDONS, RIGHT?
AND YOU’RE UNSHACKLED FROM
DEMOCRATIC ACCOUNTABILITY.
TO THEN RUSH TOWARDS THE EXITS,
TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE PEOPLE
GET PULLED INTO THE CHAMBER AND
KILLED IN A KIND OF RACE AGAINST
JANUARY 20th SEEMS PARTICULARLY
EGREGIOUS.
IS -- HAS THAT HAPPENED BEFORE?
LIKE, WE’VE SEEN PARDONS OUT THE
DOOR.
HAVE WE EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE
THIS?
>> NO.
I MEAN, IT’S INTERESTING, WE
HAVE ABOUT 54 PEOPLE ON DEATH
ROW.
60 PEOPLE ON DEATH ROW UNDER THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE ALMOST 3,000 PEOPLE ON
DEATH ROW ACROSS THE STATES.
YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES IS
GOING TO END UP EXECUTING MORE
PEOPLE THAN THE REST OF THE
COUNTRY COMBINED.
AND IT IS VERY DEFINITELY A RUSH
TO EXECUTE.
AND I JUST THINK THIS COUNTRY IS
LOSING SO MUCH CREDIBILITY.
THE INTEGRITY OF OUR JUSTICE
SYSTEM IS BEING COMPROMISED IN
WAYS THAT ARE SO FUNDAMENTALLY
TRAGIC.
YOU CAN’T GET CREDIBILITY BACK
QUICKLY.
YOU CAN’T GET LEGITIMACY BACK
QUICKLY.
THIS DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND
THE PRESIDENT HAVE ACTUALLY
AUTHORIZED NEW METHODS OF
EXECUTION.
THEY’RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO GET
RULES ADOPTED THAT WOULD ALLOW
THE UNITED STATES TO EXECUTE
PEOPLE BY FIRING SQUADS, AND
EVEN MORE SHAMEFULLY, WOULD
ALLOW THIS COUNTRY IN 2020 TO
REPLICATE THE METHOD OF
EXECUTION THAT THE NAZIS USED TO
KILL MILLIONS OF JEWISH PEOPLE
IN WORLD WAR II.
THEY WANT TO PUT PEOPLE IN GAS
CHAMBERS AND SUFFOCATE THEM.
AND THIS IS ALL SPECTACLE.
IT’S NOT REALLY ABOUT JUSTICE.
IT’S NOT ABOUT FAIRNESS.
IT’S ABOUT DEMONSTRATING POWER.
AND IT’S TRAGIC BECAUSE THERE
ARE THESE REALLY IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO BE
ANSWERING BEFORE WE EXECUTE
PEOPLE.
THE LAST PERSON EXECUTED,
ORLANDO HALL, WAS A BLACK MAN.
HE WAS CONVICTED BY AN ALL-WHITE
JURY.
HE ARGUED TO THE UNITED STATES
SUPREME COURT THAT HIS
CONVICTION AND SENTENCE WERE
COMPROMISED BY ILLEGAL RACIAL
DISCRIMINATION IN JURY
SELECTION.
THE PROSECUTOR WHO PROSECUTED
HIS CASE WHO BROUGHT IN -- THEY
BROUGHT IN TO DO THE JURY
SELECTION HAD A HISTORY OF
ILLEGALLY EXCLUDEING
AFRICAN-AMERICANS FROM SERVING
ON JURIES.
THAT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME
COURT HAD ESTABLISHED IN AN
EARLIER CASE THAT PROSECUTOR
EXCLUDED 80% OF THE BLACK PEOPLE
QUALIFIED FOR JURY SERVICE IN
HIS CASE.
A STUDY WAS PRESENTED, DATA WAS
PRESENTED THAT IN THIS COUNTRY
PROSECUTORS ARE SIX TIMES MORE
LIKELY TO SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY
UNDER THE FEDERAL SYSTEM FOR
BLACK DEFENDANTS, AND IT’S WORTH
EMPHASIZING, CHRIS, THAT 95% OF
THE PROSECUTORS IN AMERICA ARE
WHITE.
AND SO THESE DATA BECOME REALLY
SIGNIFICANT.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
>> THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS
EIGHT TIMES MORE LIKELY TO
AUTHORIZE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR
BLACK DEFENDANTS RATHER THAN
NON-BLACK DEFENDANTS, AND JUDGES
AND SENTENCERS ARE 16 TIMES MORE
LIKELY TO IMPOSE THE DEATH
PENALTY AGAINST A BLACK
DEFENDANT.
NOW, THESE ARE IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS THAT THESE -- THAT
HAVE TO BE ANSWERED BEFORE WE
EXECUTE SOMEONE, AND THAT DIDN’T
HAPPEN.
AND NOW WE HAVE FOUR MORE BLACK
PEOPLE SCHEDULED TO BE EXECUTED.
AND IT JUST SAYS A LOT ABOUT OUR
COMMITMENT TO EQUALITY,
FAIRNESS.
YOU CAN EVEN BE IN FAVOR OF THE
DEATH PENALTY, BUT IF IT’S GOING
TO BE IMPOSED IN A
DISCRIMINATORY MANNER AGAINST
THE POOR, IF IT’S GOING TO BE
IMPOSED IN A POLITICAL MANNER, A
RACIALLY BIASED MANNER.
WE’RE ABOUT TO EXECUTE A WOMAN
WHO HAS A HISTORY OF ABUSE WE
HAVEN’T FULLY GRAPPLED WITH,
YOU’RE GOING TO UNDERMINE
INTEGRITY AND CREDIBILITY IN
WAYS THAT I THINK ARE
UNPRECEDENTED IN THIS AREA OF
LAW.
>> IN A PARADE OF REALLY
MONSTROUS ACTIONS TAKEN IN THIS
PERIOD OF TIME.