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MORE THAN 14 MONTHS INTO THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATION,
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DECIDED TO
GO AGGRESSIVELY AFTER ROBERT
MUELLER FOR WHAT HE SAYS ARE
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.
THE PRESIDENT TWEETED YESTERDAY
IS ROBERT MUELLER EVER GOING TO
RELEASE HIS CONFLICTS OF
INTEREST WITH RESPECT TO
PRESIDENT TRUMP, INCLUDING THE
FACT THAT WE HAD A VERY NASTY
AND CONTENTIOUS BUSINESS
RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. I TURNED HIM DOWN TO HEAD THE
FBI ONE DAY BEFORE APPOINTMENT
AS S.C., AS IN SPECIAL COUNSEL,
AND COMEY IS HIS CLOSE FRIEND.
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ATTORNEY, RUDY
GIULIANI, WAS ASKED TO CLARIFY
THAT TWEET THIS MORNING.
HERE IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
>> HE’S REFERRING TO A DISPUTE
WHICH I IMAGINE MUELLER -- I
IMAGINE HE DISCLOSED IT TO
ROSENSTEIN WHEN HE APPOINTED HIM
BECAUSE IT WOULD INVOLVE
SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY WASN’T
SETTLED EVEN TO THIS DAY.
>> WHAT’S THE CONFLICT?
>> I CAN’T TELL YOU.
I’M NOT SURE WHAT THE CONFLICT
IS.
IS. IT’S ONE THAT WOULD HAVE KEPT ME
OUT OF THE INVESTIGATION.
>> JOINING ME NOW IS CHUCK
ROSENBERG.
ROSENBERG. CHUCK, WE DON’T KNOW THIS FOR
SURE BUT IT’S BELIEVED THAT THE
CONFLICT THE PRESIDENT IS
TALKING ABOUT IS A -- MAYBE A
DISPUTE OVER FEES AT ONE OF THE
GOLF CLUBS, WE THINK.
WHAT IS RUDY GIULIANI TRYING TO
DO HERE BY SAYING I CAN’T SAY
WHAT IT IS, BUT IT WOULD KEEP ME
OUT OF THE INVESTIGATION?
>> KATY, IT’S ODD.
HE SAYS HE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW
WHAT IT IS.
HE THINKS HE KNOWS WHAT IT IS
AND IT WOULD HAVE KEPT HIM OUT
OF THE INVESTIGATION, WHICH ARE
ALL SORT OF INCONSISTENT WITH
ONE ANOTHER.
ONE ANOTHER. I CAN ASSURE YOU THIS HAVING
WORKED FOR BOB MUELLER AND
HAVING BEEN ON HIS STAFF AND
HAVING BEEN AROUND THAT MAN FOR
QUITE A WHILE.
IF HE THOUGHT HE HAD A CONFLICT
OF INTEREST, HE WOULD STEP
ASIDE.
ASIDE. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
REGULATIONS ARE INCREDIBLY
CLEAR, AND BOB MUELLER KNOWS
THOSE REGULATIONS INSIDE OUT.
THIS IS JUST NONSENSE.
>> SO SAY HE DID FEEL HE DID
HAVE A CONFLICT AND HE DID FLAG
IT TO ROD ROSENSTEIN.
HE’S STILL THE SPECIAL COUNSEL.
IF IT WAS A SERIOUS CONFLICT OF
INTEREST, WOULD ROD ROSENSTEIN
CONTINUE TO ALLOW HIM TO BE
SPECIAL COUNSEL?
SPECIAL COUNSEL? >> NO, SURE WOULD NOT.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF ETHICS
OFFICIALS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE TO WHOM YOU CAN GO TO
SEEK GUIDANCE.
SEEK GUIDANCE. IF AN ISSUE CAME UP AND I
THOUGHT IT MIGHT CREATE A
CONFLICT FOR ME, THERE’S A WHOLE
BUNCH OF PEOPLE I CAN TALK TO TO
HELP THINK THROUGH THE ISSUE.
BY THE WAY, THE WAY MOST
PROSECUTORS HANDLE THIS IS IF
THERE’S EVEN AN APPEARANCE OF A
CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THEY’LL
STEP ASIDE.
STEP ASIDE. SO THE FACT THAT MUELLER HAS NOT
STEPPED ASIDE TELLS ME, A, HE
KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE’S DOING
AND, B, HE HAS NO CONCERNS ABOUT
A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
>> SO BOB MUELLER WAS
INTERVIEWED FOR THE FBI
DIRECTOR.
DIRECTOR. THE PRESIDENT INTERVIEWED HIM,
HE DID NOT CHOOSE HIM.
IS THAT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
>> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
BY THE WAY, I DISPUTE -- I DON’T
HAVE FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE BUT I
HAVE A PRETTY DARN GOOD GUESS.
I DISPUTE THE PRESIDENT’S
RECITATION OF WHAT HAPPENED IN
THE OVAL OFFICE.
REMEMBER, BOB MUELLER HAD BEEN
THE DIRECTOR OF THE FBI F TEN
YEARS WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA ASKED
HIM TO DO ANOTHER TWO.
SO THE MAN HAD ONE OF THE
HARDEST JOBS IN THE COUNTRY FOR
12 YEARS.
12 YEARS. THAT HE WOULD BE IN THE OVAL
OFFICE BEGGING FOR ANOTHER
TEN-YEAR TERM WHEN HE WAS IN HIS
70s STRIKES ME AS NOT CREDIBLE.
>> IS IT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST
IF HE DID WORK FOR PRESIDENT
OBAMA AND PRESIDENT BUSH, AS YOU
JUST MENTIONED?
JUST MENTIONED? >> NOT AT ALL.
NO, NOT AT ALL.
THE MERE FACT THAT YOU WORK IN
AN ADMINISTRATION DOESN’T MEAN
THAT YOU HAVE A CONFLICT BECAUSE
YOU’RE INVESTIGATING AN OFFICIAL
IN ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION.
THAT IS NOT A CONFLICT.
NOWHERE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE REGULATIONS IS THAT
SUGGESTED THAT THAT WOULD BE A
CONFLICT.
CONFLICT. THIS IS STUFF THEY’RE JUST
MAKING UP, KATY, IN ORDER TO
DIRTY UP BOB MUELLER.
THAT’S ALL IT IS.
>> HE ALSO TWEETED WHY IS
MUELLER ONLY APPOINTING ANGRY
DEMS, SOME OF WHOM HAVE WORKED
FOR CROOKED HILLARY AND OTHERS
WORKED FOR OBAMA.
WHY ISN’T MUELLER LOOKING AT ALL
OF THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND
COLLUSION ON THE DEMOCRATS SIDE,
PODESTA, DOSSIER?
PODESTA, DOSSIER? HE’S SAYING THAT EVERYBODY
INVESTIGATING HIM OR THE PEOPLE
INVESTIGATING HIM ARE ANGRY
DEMOCRATS
DEMOCRATS DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. THEY HAVE GONE ON AND THEY HAVE
MENTIONED PETER STRZOK A NUMBER
OF TIMES, LISA PAGE, PETER
STRZOK HAS TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF
THE HOUSE.
THE HOUSE. THE PRESIDENT SEEMS TO BE
INDICATING THAT HE’S RUNNING HIS
FBI WHEN HIS FBI IS A DEEP STATE
THAT IS WORKING AGAINST HIM.
DOES EVERYBODY IN THE FBI AND
THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION NEED
TO COME IN AND PRESENT WHAT THEY
THINK OF DONALD TRUMP IN ORDER
FOR THIS INVESTIGATION TO BE
FAIR, HOW THEY PERSONALLY FEEL
ABOUT HIM?
ABOUT HIM? >> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
LOOK, IT’S PERFECTLY OKAY FOR
YOU, ME AND EVERYBODY ELSE IN
THE ENTIRE WORLD TO HAVE OUR
PERSONAL VIEWS AND OUR PERSONAL
OPINIONS, RIGHT?
OPINIONS, RIGHT? WE ALL THINK CERTAIN THINGS.
IT DOESN’T MEAN WE SHARE THEM
WITH EVERYBODY AND IT DOESN’T
MEAN THAT IT INFECTS OR INFESTS
OUR WORK IN ANY WAY.
THE FACT THAT MUELLER HAS A TEAM
OF FOLKS WHO MAY HAVE VOTED, WHO
MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO CERTAIN
POLITICIANS IS COMPLETELY BESIDE
THE POINT.
THE POINT. AS LONG AS THEY CAN PUT THOSE
VIEWS ASIDE WHEN THEY HAVE TO DO
THEIR WORK.
THEIR WORK. AND BY THE WAY, KATY, WHEN BOB
MUELLER FOUND OUT WHAT PETE
STRZOK HAD BEEN TEXTING, HE GOT
HIM OFF THE TEAM THAT DAY,
PRETTY DARN QUICKLY, BECAUSE HE
UNDERSTANDS BETTER THAN ANYONE
HOW IMPORTANT TWO THINGS ARE,
NOT JUST THAT OUTCOMES ARE FAIR
BUT THAT PERCEPTIONS OF OUTCOMES
ARE FAIR.
ARE FAIR. HE HAS A VERY PROFESSIONAL TEAM.
WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR PRIVATE
LIFE, HOW THEY VOTE, TO WHOM
THEY DONATE IS THEIR PRIVATE
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. THEY CAN PUT THAT ASIDE TO DO
THEIR WORK.
THEIR WORK. >> RUDY GIULIANI HAS VISIBLE
TODAY, LET’S PUT THAT MILDLY.
WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IT A MOMENT
AGO BEFORE THE COMMERCIAL BREAK
ABOUT HOW HE’S CONTRADICTING
HIMSELF ON AIR, HE’S DENYING
THINGS THAT SO FAR HAVE NOT BEEN
ALLEGED, A STRATEGY MEETING,
TALKING ABOUT THE RUSSIA
TRANSACTION, UNCLEAR WHAT
TRANSACTION HE’S TALKING ABOUT.
IT DOES SEEM THAT HE’S TRYING TO
MUDDY THE WATERS TO MAKE THIS
WHOLE INVESTIGATION VERY
CONFUSING, THAT THIS IS A PR
STRATEGY RATHER THAN A LEGAL
STRATEGY.
STRATEGY. DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT IS
BEING WELL SERVED BY RUDY
GIULIANI?
GIULIANI? >> WELL, KATY, IT DEPENDS ON
WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS.
IF HE WANTS A PR STRATEGY AND
NOT A LEGAL STRATEGY, I GUESS
YOU COULD ARGUE THAT MR.
GIULIANI IS EXECUTING ON THAT.
TO PUT IT KINDLY, MR. GIULIANI
MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, AND
AS YOU POINT OUT, IT IS
ABSOLUTELY NOT A LEGAL STRATEGY.
AND BY THE WAY, KATY, COLLUSION
IS A CRIME.
WE JUST HAPPEN TO CALL IT
SOMETHING ELSE.
SOMETHING ELSE. WE CALL IT CONSPIRACY.
BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY A CRIME.
YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY WON’T
FIND THE WORD BANK HEIST IN THE
CRIMINAL CODE, BUT BANK ROBBERY
IS A CRIME TOO, SO I’M SORT OF
PERPLEXED THAT IT’S COME DOWN TO
SIN
SIN SYNONYMS.
SYNONYMS. IF THEY DON’T KNOW THIS IS A
LEGAL STRATEGY.
LEGAL STRATEGY. >> LET’S TALK ABOUT HOW RUDY
GIULIANI AND THE PRESIDENT IS
GOING AFTER MICHAEL COHEN SAYING
THAT HE’S A LIAR, SAYING THAT HE
CAN’T BE TRUSTED AND IS
INETHICAL.
INETHICAL. THEY’RE VERY CLEARLY TRYING TO
UNDERMINE COHEN’S CREDIBILITY.
IF COHEN ENDS UP BEING SOMEBODY
WHO COOPERATES WITH ROBERT
MUELLER AND WE DON’T HAVE ANY
INDICATION THAT HE IS DOING THAT
OR SOMEBODY THAT COOPERATES WITH
THE SDNY, HOW DOES ROBERT
MUELLER’S TEAM TURN HIM INTO A
CREDIBLE WITNESS FOR THE
PROSECUTION?
PROSECUTION? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL,
PROSECUTORS, AND I WAS ONE FOR A
LONG TIME, DON’T PICK THEIR
WITNESSES.
WITNESSES. DEFENDANTS PICK THEIR WITNESSES,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? I MEAN IT SORT OF COMES DOWN TO
WHO DID YOU COMMIT THE CRIME
WITH AND WHO KNOWS ABOUT WHAT
YOU DID AND SO DEFENDANTS PICK
WITNESSES FOR THE GOVERNMENT THE
THE GOVERNMENT SIMPLY PUTS THEM
ON THE STAND.
AND HOW YOU DO THIS AND IS GOING
ON EVERY DAY IS MY CORROBORATING
YOUR WITNESSES.
YOUR WITNESSES. YOU INTRODUCE DOCUMENTS,
E-MAILS, TELEPHONE CALLS, BANK
RECORDS, OTHER WITNESSES WHO CAN
TESTIFY TO WHAT MICHAEL COHEN
KNEW, SAW AND HEARD, SO WHILE A
CASE COULD TECHNICALLY TURN ON
ONE WITNESS, THE LAW WOULD
PERMIT THAT.
PERMIT THAT. THAT’S NOT HOW PROSECUTORS WORK.
THEY FIND AS MANY DIFFERENT
THINGS AS THEY CAN OR AS THEY
CAN TO CORROBORATE MICHAEL
COHEN.
COHEN. I AM SURE IF THEY USE HIM ONE
DAY AS A WITNESS, HE WILL BE
WELL CORROBORATED, UP, DOWN AND
SIDEWAYS.
SIDEWAYS. >> WHAT DOES IT SAY TO YOU THAT
RUDY GIULIANI IS GOING -- IS
ATTACKING HIM SO VICIOUSLY, THE
WAY THAT HE’S DOING SO FAR?
>> WELL, IT GETS BACK TO YOUR
EARLIER POINT, I THINK, THAT
THIS IS A POLITICAL STRATEGY.
IT’S NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIT OF
DIFFERENCE IN A COURT OF LAW.
PROSECUTORS KNOW HOW TO HANDLE
THAT.
THAT. IT MAY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE
COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.
AND SO IF THAT’S WHAT RUDY
GIULIANI IS TRYING TO DO, TO
SOME EXTENT HE’S SUCCEEDING.
LOOK, HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
IT.
IT. IF YOU’RE TALKING ONE DAY ABOUT
A TRIAL IN FRONT OF 12 MEN AND
WOMEN IN A FEDERAL COURT, IT’S
NOT GOING TO MAKE A DARN BIT OF
DIFFERENCE.
DIFFERENCE. SO IT IS WHAT IT IS, KATY.
IT’S DEEPLY UNFORTUNATE.
ALL WITNESSES HAVE SOME BAGGAGE.
BY THE WAY, INTERESTINGLY, THE
GOVERNMENT IS REQUIRED, REQUIRED
TO TURN OVER ANY INFORMATION IT
OBTAINS IN THE COURSE OF ITS
INVESTIGATION THAT COULD IMPEACH
OR UNDERMINE A WITNESS.
IT MUST GIVE THAT TO THE
DEFENDANT AND HIS OR HER
ATTORNEYS.
ATTORNEYS. AND SO RUDY GIULIANI ISN’T DOING
ANYTHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT ONE
DAY WON’T HAVE TO DO ITSELF.
>> WE SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT
MICHAEL COHEN HAS NOT BEEN
CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME.
THE RAID INTO HIS OFFICES AND
HOME WAS IN APRIL.
HE HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY
CRIME.
CRIME. IT IS MID-JULY RIGHT NOW.