I was homeschooled, B, homeschooled!
You know that's,
That's not as tough.
Welcome to 'StarTalk.'
I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson,
your personal astrophysicist.
And I'm also the Director of
New York City's Hayden Planetarium
At the American Museum of Natural History.
And I've got with me my co-host,
Chuck Nice.
Hey, hey!
Chucky baby,
long-time veteran of 'StarTalk Radio.'
Absolutely, and the director of my home.
Keep telling yourself that.
(Laughs)
So today, we're talking about
the fusion of hip-hop culture and science,
featuring my interview with the rapper
Logic.
Nice!
Yes.
Yes. That's a great name for
That's a great name for
a rapper who's interested in science.
Yeah, and joining us in
the studio today is hip-hop artist and
educator, Steve Tyson.
Welcome!
Thank you, glad to be here.
So where did you get the name Tyson from?
Well, I was born with it.
(Laughs) Okay!
There you go.
That dude's my nephew!
That's right!
He's my nephew!
So Logic, Logic dropped an album in
2017 titled, 'Everybody'.
And it just showed up at number one on
the Billboard Top 200.
Cool. There it was, number one.
He is actually a deep thinker.
And he uses his platform as a performing
artist to engage discussions of social
issues.
Plus, he's got serious street geek cred.
Street geek cred.
Yes. I like that.
Yeah, because of geeks on the street.
Right, exactly.
(Laughs)
Yeah,
Not all geeks are in the lab.
Right, exactly.
We got street folk.
Street, right, exactly.
Give me your lunch money.
(Laughs)
Now, allow me to calculate
exactly how we'll be able to use this.
(Laughs)
Smartest hustlers.
Right.
I mean, I sat down with Logic.
He came through town, visited my office.
And he's well known as someone who
delivers a message of hope through
his music.
That's always a good thing.
He talked to me about some of the challenges he
had to overcome in order to become who
he is today.
Ok.
So let's check it out.
Now me, unfortunately, so
I came up on welfare, food stamps,
Section 8 housing.
Unfortunately, both of my parents were
addicted to drugs and alcohol.
And my father wasn't really there that
much in my life, unfortunately.
Now here's the crazy thing.
In fourth grade,
just the people at my school kind of knew
that my household wasn't that great.
And so they believed that because
my mother had problems,
that I had problems, even mentally.
Or that I was disturbed, or
had whatever the case may be.
And because of this,
they put me in a special needs class.
But it was more so
for just people that had been emotionally
disturbed or something like that.
So I was dealing with pretty bad-ass
kids that wanted to fight me all the time.
So when they put me in this program,
took me out of my school,
put me in a completely different school.
I had to take the short bus, it sucked.
You know what I mean? The short bus?
And that's fine.
So but anyway, so I get there.
And these kids are trying to fight me, and
just all these things.
But I couldn't do it,
I couldn't fight back.
I knew that I couldn't act out,
even to defend myself.
Because I would then just be
proving their point,
that I deserved to be in this class.
Mm hmm.
So at this point it was just so
You're resisting the cookie cut mold
that they're trying to put you in.
Yes, and they tried to say I had ADD,
and I had all these different things.
Which wasn't the case, it was just that I
wasn't being challenged.
And I wasn't being taught the right way,
how I needed to be taught, myself.
So my mother took me out and
she homeschooled me.
Now this was the crazy, so
she homeschooled me for three years.
Now unfortunately, as I said,
my mother was an alcoholic.
So she would sleep all day and
she wouldn't teach me a thing.
So three years went by, okay, and
now I'm supposed to be in eight grade.
And essentially, the state calls.
And essentially, the state calls. And they go, hey, you have to put your son
And they go, hey, you have to put your son
back in public school or
there's going to be a problem.
You know what I mean?
We are going to take your son from you,
da, da, da, whatever.
So she goes okay, okay.
Hadn't really taught me anything, except
a little bit of 'Hooked on Phonics'.
And goes all right,
we're going to put him back.
And the school system puts me in eighth grade,
with a fourth grade education.
Within six months, I went from a fourth
grade to an eighth grade education.
I did well on all my tests,
with the exception of math.
I wasn't that great at math.
I was more good in English and
words, but I did it.
And I left, but the crazy thing is
You basically skipped four grades.
Yes, and it was hard.
And I did it though, I did it.
But it made me who I am, so.
So we hear a case where he is reaching
into his life experience growing up,
as a source of his need to change
the world through his creativity.
There has to be some type of pain,
I believe.
And it doesn't have to be exactly
what happened to Logic.
Which is really kind of weird.
You've got Jay-Z, Marcy Projects,
I grew up in Marcy Projects.
50 Cent, I was shot nine times, you know
And then Logic is just like,
I was homeschooled, B, homeschooled!
You know.
That's not as tough.
So tell me about this legacy of violence
and hip-hop,
the two being associated with one another.
Violence and rap music, uh, can..
Not only violence surrounding rap events.
But violence within the lives, the modern
wealthy lives of successful rap stars.
So I think that whenever one is
comparing violence and just negativity
with hip-hop, a lot of the times what
they're referring to is rap music.
Which is a facet of hip-hop culture.
So rap music absolutely has negativity,
has violence.
It also has peace, love, and positivity.
But at the end of the day,
hip-hop as a culture was founded on peace,
unity, love, and having fun.
We've been exploring the intersection
of hip-hop, and creativity, and science.
He's a person, Logic,
that's thought deeply
about the interconnectedness of humanity.
And especially for him, as a person of
sort of mixed ethnic heritage, as he
explores these ideas through his music and
his creativity.
Let's check it out.
So you said you were mixed heritage?
Yeah, black and white.
Black and white, okay.
I feel like I've seen a lot of things
differently.
Do you know what I mean, kind of not being
accepted by both races at one time, or
accepted by one more than the another.
You see things differently because
other people require that of you.
Yeah
otherwise you're just there.
But I like it.
I think it also does give me a unique
perspective on things, especially being
black and white, and in this country.
In your music, does it allow you or
does it force you to say,
I want to speak to more than one group?
Is that even possible?
No, it's 100% possible, but
I think as long as certain sects within
that group actually care to listen to you.
With hip-hop there is almost like
reverse racism.
Where people will be like you're not good,
because you look white.
And then somebody will be like, but
he's black though.
And they will be like, he's cool then.
So therefore okay, right, right,
that doesn't even make sense.
That's so ignorant, you know what I mean?
But those are the things. Like once you
stop caring, that's a big deal.
When you stop really,
truly caring what other people think, or
at least the people that aren't important.
The people who are ignorant and
just make such, just harsh statements,
and things.
When you put that out of your mind,
you become much more happier, truly.
So Steve,
If the hip-hop culture is inclusive and
multi-racial as you've described,
what accounts for
the push-back of some hip-hop artists?
Either "Eminem," or
I was thinking in particular,
"Iggy Azalea".
Here's a blonde haired woman,
shaking her butt, and
she's from Australia.
And so if you're inclusive,
why have push-back at all?
So I think that if you're bringing
If youre bringing up an example like "Iggy Azalea,"
that push-back comes whenever
you think about cultural appropriation.
Because she's from Australia.
Yet she did move to Miami, but
then adopted a persona and a style that
was very specifically Miami and
was leaning heavily on "Trina".
So? - And the other thing- So?
No, because you can't in your song go,
tell me who that, who that.
And then after the song is over,
it's like g'day mate.
(Laughs)
No, no, I'm sorry.
You don't play that.
Yeah, it just can't happen
that way, okay?
So,
All right, so it's multi-racial
and inclusive for people who are genuine
in the product that they are.
Genuine is, That's a good word.
A defining word for it.
Fine, fine, that answers it,
I got you there.
Authenticity.
Because this whole thing about race,
I find it so odd.
Because anytime anyone asks me, well,
what race are you?
And I say, last I checked,
I'm the human race.
You got another question?
And to try to slice and
dice people,
I just don't find that to be productive.
I know how you think of me,
because I've been stopped by cops.
I know how I'm seen in society.
But as a living Homo sapien in this world,
I think that we're the human race.
And then, move on from there.
I think that for the lot
of the human race who are enlightened,
identifying as a member of the human race
is right on point.
But I also think that whenever you
consider what's going on currently in
America, and you speak of police relations
in the Black community,
that identifying with your "categorized"
race can also be empowering.
So for example, you're an astrophysicist.
If you, in addition to saying I'm a member
of the human race, also said
I am Afro-Caribbean
I am biracial
I'm Afro-Caribbean and Puerto Rican,
that would also help to uplift many Puerto
Ricans who live near Arecibo, or many
Afro-Caribbeans who look at the stars.
Arecibo is a major radio telescope in
the island of Puerto Rico.
And so
that can also be very empowering too.
So there is empowerment in saying I'm
a member of the human race,
I'm beyond the construct of race.
But at the same time,
there's also power in saying, if you want
to talk about the construct of race,
here's who I am.
I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson,
an Afro-Caribbean,
Puerto Rican astrophysicist.
Yeah, well.
Mic drop on that one.
There you go.
(Laughs)
So, Logic's got a geek underbelly.
This is the fun part on
a StarTalk interview.
You come into my office in at
the Hayden Planetarium and you've got
any geek underbelly, I'm going to find it.
Yeah, so somehow, I forgot how,
the subject of Rubik's Cube came up in my
conversation with Logic.
You had one on your desk.
That could have been it, yeah.
I have a Rubik's Cube that exists in
a higher dimension than just the cube
Of course you would.
Of course you would. (Laugh) I'm just saying
(Laughs)
I'm just saying
Of course your the guy.
It's Rubik's to the fourth.
He's the only one with
a multidimensional Rubik's Cube.
If you do it wrong, you get sucked out
of this dimension, never to be seen again.
(Laughs)
Is that what happened to,
Exactly.
Right, what happened?
(Laughs)
Anyhow, so
We chatted about creativity and
the Rubik's Cube.
Let's see what came out of that.
I'm definitely, I will boast and say I'm
probably the fastest rapping Rubik's Cuber
in the world.
If not the only.
My fastest time that I've ever done it in
was 23 seconds, when I was like obsessed.
You can ask my wife.
I would just, we'd lay down and
be watching movies, and
I'd just be cubing.
She'd get really upset.
So my fastest is 76 seconds.
Wow.
But that was 25 years ago, and
I've never beaten that.
When it was like invented?
(Laughs)
Yeah, it was early in the day.
It was early in the day.
When it was still kind of like a conversation piece.
What is that, why does it do that?
And lately at my old age,
five minutes.
I can't pull
But it's also fun.
So here's the distinction.
I solved the Rubik's Cube after 80 hours
just messing with it.
Wow.
Okay, but it's about 80 hours I should
have been doing 22 other things.
Okay, I was in graduate school, right,
trying to get a PhD in astrophysics.
And I'm sitting on the couch, and
Flexing on me.
No, no, no,
I'm just saying it took me 80.
And so, but I've never actually looked
at algorithms for it.
And I've thought to myself, should I?
But then I'd be following instructions,
rather than figuring it out.
And so the fun thing about being on
the frontier science is there is no answer
already derived in the back of the book.
Yeah.
You have a foot in what is known,
a foot in what is unknown, and you're just like
Yeah, no, completely.
So would you say that any,
sort of creative person
would just love puzzles in general,
as a general thing?
I mean, as far as being a rapper,
definitely.
I mean, the way that we put together words
is very much like a puzzle.
That's a puzzle,
it's a Rubik's Cube itself.
Yeah.
If you put this word here,
some other word's got to get bumped and
make it work in another way.
Absolutely, or even the way that we DJ.
And we'll find different segments of songs
that match well with one another, go crate
digging to find that little sample or
that little,
Crate digging,
that's good.
Yeah.
And so fans of Logic may know
that I made sort of a cameo appearance on
his album as "God."
That's right.
You were "Morgan Freeman?"
No, no.
(Laughs)
That's how good "Morgan Freeman" was as "God."
When people do not even say
you were "God," like "Morgan Freeman?"
No, you were "Morgan Freeman?"
That's even more impressive than being
"God."
(Laughs)
Yep, it was "God."
And in this next clip, you'll hear
the moment where I was actually officially
asked to do just that,
Let's check it out.
Cool.
Let's put it this way,
I'm inviting you to play "God."
(Laughs)
The role of "God" on my album.
Is it just the voice of "God" you need?
It's the voice of "God."
Okay, so I joke about this,
that we go to planetarium director school,
where you learn how to get your, the voice.
The planet.
welcome to the universe.
Yo, it's like that, like it's crazy.
You don't understand.
So, like
I'm going to tell you this.
Well, the voice,
I think it's gotta come from down here.
I'm going to tell you
really quick, okay.
Try it, try, welcome to the universe.
Welcome to the universe.
That's good, that's good.
That's good, I like that.
It's not as good as Neil,
but it's all right.
I will say that the role is yours and
I think it's very special.
I think people will enjoy it.
Well if I aspire to be
God. "Morgan Freeman."
Oh I know.
With my voice,
that's one I don't have on my resume yet,
to be the voice of "God."
Well, I have a soft spot for
artists who reach out to me,
to add science to their creativity.
I'm there every time.
Just because it's the mainstreaming
of science when artists touch it and
want to sort of make it their own.
And in this last clip, he tells us about
the importance of following our dreams.
Aw.
So let's see how thay goes.
My whole message is peace, love,
positivity.
Follow your dreams, think it and
it will happen.
Truly the law of attraction, you know
living it, breathing it, saying it.
Because I tell people all of the time,
I meet so many people.
I say "Hey, what's your dream?"
"What would you do?"
"If you could do anything,
"What would it be?"
Some people go well, I would travel, but
you can't do that.
Well yes you can, you could.
There's a million reasons that you could
travel the world and do what you love.
And they go well, I would, but.
And that's it, right there,
as soon as you say, but.
Game over, you ruined it.
You know what I mean?
As Pee Wee Herman once said,
everyone has a big but.
(Laughs)
Everyone does have a big but.
I would've done it, but.
I really want to, but.
Yeah, you're right.
Anytime there's a but in somebody's sentence
there's some excuse coming down the line.
I mean, there does need to be realism.
Because I was like, I want to be a rapper.
And the difference wasn't like oh yeah,
I just want women and money.
And no, when you think about it,
that's completely, I looked at it.
You know,
The key to success to me is just
determination, persistence, realism,
wanting success more than your next breathe.
But a big part of that is realism.
I tell people all the time you can do
anything that you want.
You can be a rapper, singer,
actor, dancer.
You can be a doctor, a lawyer,
the best mother in the world,
the best father in the world.
You can do it, because you're special.
But you have to believe in it.
But that realism factor is
a big thing, now.
You can't just go I'm going to do this.
Right, it's a reality check.
Completely,
even like this is a business,
even what you do is a business.
And when you look at it, you go okay,
this is what I have to do in
order to attain this.
But once I attain it,
I can do it how I want.
You know what I mean?
So, and for a long time, for many years, I
was actually talking to my wife about it,
a lot of people about this.
I've been literally going nonstop.
I've never had a vacation,
I've never had a break,
I've never had a break, because,
because,
If you love what you do,
what you do is the vacation.
Yes, but sometimes you need a vacation
from the vacation.
You know what I'm saying?
Literally, I got married and jumped on
a tour bus to go promote my album.
But I believe, man, if one thing,
that if people are listening to this or
watching this or
anything could take away from it,
it is do what you love.
Please, do what you love.
Because I'll tell you,
man, if it wasn't for music,
if it wasn't for me just taking that leap?
I would either be selling drugs,
doing drugs, in jail, whatever.
And that's what my whole family,
their line, what?
You know what I mean?
And I'm so blessed to be here.
This is kind of surreal, though.
(Laughs)
This is crazy.
He says do what you love.
Suppose you love selling drugs?
(Laughs)
Okay, I think that wasn't the idea of the thing.
Okay.
That was not where that was
supposed to go.
I missed the bus on that one.
Okay, but what my interpretation is,
Do what you love, and
you'll never work a day in your life.,
That's cool.
I agree with the do what you love.
I did not agree with him when, you cannot
have the message of, you can do anything,
and then temper that message with realism.
Because they are diametrically opposed.
Saying that you can do anything, and
then introducing realism automatically
limits what you can do.
You are tone deaf, you cannot sing.
(Laughs)
I'm sorry, stop it.
Stop it now.
You are 4'10",
you will not be center for the LA Lakers.
Right, stop it!
Let it go, okay?
Steve, give us some parting
thoughts here.
Man, I mean, I think that with hip-hop
culture, hip-hop culture was defined on
you can do anything.
It was created out of
something from nothing, everybody,
It was definitely from nothing, the streets.
No question.
No question. And that mind set of you can do anything
And that mind set of you can do anything
led hip-hop to be what is currently
the most financially influential, as well
as culturally influential. art form.
Art form on the planet.
On the planet, yes, absolutely.
So you can do anything.
In the 1970s, when I heard the first rap
song that made the charts,
which was the "Sugar Hill Gang."
'Rapper's Delight'.
and we,
it blew our minds.
I remember in college,
we were just dancing, and singing, and
sweating to it.
But I said,
this is a flash in the pan,
this kind of cute,
just somebody reciting words that rhymed.
It's disco that will really last.
(Laughs)
So don't ever try to get me to predict
the future.
That's funny. (Laughs)
If you asked me in 30 years,
what would it be, no.
That's great.
All right,
you've been listening to 'StarTalk Radio'.
I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Chuck Nice, always good to have you.
My pleasure. Steve Tyson, Jr.
Thanks for having me here.
Nephew dude, you can find him,
Just Listen Ent?
Yeah, JustListenEnt.com, but
I'm also on SoundCloud.
All right, thanks for being here.
Appreciate it.
I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson signing off.
As always,
I bid you to keep looking up.