I want to move on to Saudi Arabia because that is probably one of the main areas.
Where I personally have the most critique or
criticism toward the Biden administration.
Recently Senator Bernie Sanders wanted to revive a resolution that was vetoed,
It was a bipartisan resolution that was vetoed by Donald Trump.
And it essentially pulled us support toward the Saudi led coalition in Yemen.
When Donald Trump vetoed it, there was a lot of backlash from
democratic voters, liberal news outlets and all of that.
But when Senator Sanders wanted to revive it and it was squashed by the Biden
administration, there was very little criticism from the very same people.
What really,
I don't know if you're privy to it, but what was going on behind the scenes and
why do you think the Biden administration wanted to squash that resolution?
>> Well, I think there's a few things,
one is the situation has changed to some extent.
I don't think it's changed enough I mean, Steven and
I talked about this in the piece.
I mean, certainly the Biden administration, I mean as a candidate,
Joe Biden supported the war powers resolution.
That Senator Sanders and
his colleagues passed in in 2019 early on in this administration.
President Biden came out and announced an end to the quote offensive support for
the Saudis in Yemen, although they would continue defensive support.
We never fully got an explanation of what that really meant,
but still I mean, the situation has been improved.
Has it been improved enough, I don't think so,
Senator Sanders clearly does not think so.
One thing I would also note is that the Biden administration also created
the office of Special envoy for Yemen.
Tim Lender King, a skilled State Department diplomat
whose job is to reach a diplomatic end to this conflict.
So I would just note the situation has changed a bit not enough in my view.
But I would also kind of draw it back and look at the broader US Saudi relationship.
Yemen is obviously hugely important as one of the worst humanitarian
crises in the world.
But I think the question of the US Saudi relationship is an area where I think I
have been very disappointed in the way the Biden administration has has acted.
I mean president Biden as a candidate said,
I will make him a quote pariah because of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.
They started off,
they released the U S Intelligence report indicating that Mohammed bin Salman.
The crown Prince of Saudi Arabia clearly was implicated in this murder.
But since then they've slowly but surely moved back to the norm,
which is a very close relationship.
And very few if any consequences for Saudi's behavior abroad or
its repressive behavior at home, and
I think this is a real failure of the Biden administration.
>> On what I mean, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but at the same time,
one of the factors that's really pushing the Biden administration,
In the direction it's been going in.
When it comes to Saudi Arabia, is that we're at the mercy of the OPEC plus
cartel, when it comes to oil production.
And Saudi Arabia is clearly in that group, were reliant on them and
producing a certain amount of oil in order to keep gas prices down,
energy costs down.
I have mentioned the possibility, I mean,
this would never happen at least not anytime soon in the United States.
But the idea of nationalizing natural gas oil, the resources we have right now.
It's under the control of these multinational corporations,
who sell to the highest bidder on the international market.
Would that be in your mind, a potential solution to kind of in the short
term wean us off of our reliance on the international oil market?
>> I mean, I think dealing with as energy is a global market, so
even if we are not the kind of the shorthand version of
the US Saudi relationship has always been.
We give them security, they give us oil, I think that's simplistic, but
it does get to a basic truth of the relationship.
I think an approach here and this goes to a bill that
Senator Sanders introduced last year in the wake of the Ukraine.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine along with Congresswoman Cori Bush and
Congressman Jason Crow, the US Energy Independence Act.
And what this proposed was that the Biden administration used its
executive authorities to to seriously ramp up green renewable energy.
Because ultimately, I think that is the way to wean us off of this
dependence of not only of fossil fuels.
But to make us less dependent on the whims of authoritarian corrupt
rulers like Vladimir Putin and Mohammed Bin Salman.
As as senator Sanders said in the statement,
it is we need to get out of this cycle.
Where we go hat in hand to our corrupt authoritarian allies to help us against
our corrupt authoritarian enemies.
Because that's the cycle we continue to be caught in as long
as we are dependent on these fossil fuels.
>> Totally agree with you on that I mean,
it was kind of stunning to see the Biden administration go to Venezuela.
[LAUGH] And
engage in some pretty diplomatic talks in order to work with them with them.
>> And thats something they should have done anyway.
>> I agree, but that was after Biden got elected and
said Juan Guido was the rightful leader of Venezuela.
Even though he was never elected, that was crazy but anyway all right,
final question for you, we're running out of time, unfortunately.
I wanted to ask about your your views on China, so in the piece you write quote.
Biden has repeatedly said that he does not seek a cold war with china, but
his policy repeatedly tells a different story.
His repeated gaffes on Taiwan vowing to send U S troops,
if China attacks, may have made war more rather than less likely.
So that's the area where I definitely agree with you,
I think the gaps are pretty disastrous.
And what adds to it is members of Congress people like former
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi traveling to Taiwan.
And kind of adding to the tensions, what's really
behind it because honestly my view is we allowed for
US based companies to exploit cheap labor in China.
China has started kicking our ass economically and
now U S officials are like China's the enemy.
>> No that's that's absolutely right and
again I would refer to a piece that that Senator Sanders wrote in Foreign affairs.
And I think it was April 2021, where he made this point,
he was 20 years ago the absolute unassailable consensus.
Was that we are going they let China into the W T O and companies will go to China.
And the Chinese people will will get rich and then obviously they will become
much more politically liberal, now that obviously has not worked out.
But 20 years later, 22 years later the new unassailable consensus
is that China is our enemy and we must do everything we can to compete.
And repress China's economy unless
they replace us as the rightful global hedgeman.
And maybe we should just hit the brakes [LAUGH] and question this consensus just
as we should have more energetically question the previous consensus.
I mean, I think the point that Steven and I tried to make is it is good that
President Biden says these things about not seeking a cold war.
About seeking areas of cooperation, because this is absolutely essential.
We cannot address shared global challenges like climate, like pandemic.
Just to name two obvious examples without at least trying to cooperate with China.
And yet the story that his policy is telling whether it's the couple a few
months ago.
There was a series, a set of restrictions announced on the semiconductor industry,
that are extremely severe.
That essentially seemed to be trying to crush the Chinese semiconductor industry.
Now there is a security logic behind this, but the tracks that are being laid
down right now point us toward a future of real severe competition.
If not conflict with China and the fact of the matter is China is going to be there.
We need to find some way of coexisting and in saying this, I do not downplay or
diminish the real problems that China poses both.
Globally and internally,
I mean what China is doing in St John to the workers is absolutely atrocious.
There is no question the repression of its own people around
the country obviously a huge problem.
But again, we need to find ways to keep talking and
identifying possible areas of cooperation and
not just put ourselves on a track of conflict.
>> Yeah, I really appreciate your dialectical approach to foreign policy,
I think it's really important.
Especially at a time, when people tend to report on these things in a very black and
white way.
You're either on one side or the other and honestly, with these issues and
as complex as they are, it's not that easy, It's not that cut and dry.
Matt Does, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and
joining us today.
Everyone, please check out the piece that he co authored, Better Biden Doctrine,
which is featured in the new republic, thank you again, Matt.
>> Thank you Anna Great to be here.