SHARMINI PERIES: It's The Real News Network.
I'm Sharmini Peries, coming to you from Baltimore.
It's been almost two weeks since President Trump met with Russia's President Vladimir
Putin, and the fallout from the meeting continues here in Washington, D.C.
There seems to be a consensus across the Democratic and Republican divide that Trump sold out
to Putin during the meeting.
However, we still don't know what the two presidents actually discussed in their private
meeting, nor in the meeting where there was delegations from each country.
An opinion poll conducted shortly after the meeting that indicated that 49 percent of
Americans consider Trump's performance in Helsinki treasonous, and only 26 percent is
disagreeing with that, and according to the poll done by Ipsos.
Now joining me to discuss this further is Larry Wilkerson.
Larry is
a retired U.S. Colonel and former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell;
now a distinguished professor at the College of William and Mary.
And he's been at many such meetings, so he'll be able to give us a real process of how these
meetings unfold, what comes out of them, and so on.
So, Larry, what is your take on the Trump-Putin meeting to begin with, and did Trump betray
U.S. interest there?
LARRY WILKERSON: Sharmini, you're going to get me in real trouble.
You may have seen my appearance on Bill Maher's, Real Time With Bill Maher, the HBO show on
29 June, as I recall.
And the only real substantive question I got asked was about, well, what was going to happen
on 16 July at the summit in Helsinki.
And I got very serious, and I talked about how this was not something to be laughed at.
We needed to meet with Moscow.
We needed to talk about nuclear weapons, that we were in a situation that was looking more
dangerous than any time during the Cold War with regard to nuclear war and its potential
to break out, and that we damn sure did need to sit down and talk.
What I saw so far, what I've seen so far, probably supports Bill Maher and others.
Michael Moore was on the show that night, and Jennifer Rubin.
And their positions then mine, they kind of scoffed at me.
And Bill in particular laughed at there's no way this administration could do anything
successful.
It would probably be a complete failure.
To this point, I think the only positive aspect of it that I can cite is that they actually
met.
And it was a desperate meeting in terms of the need for it, because of the things I just
talked about.
Russian doctrine now officially calls for using nuclear weapons.
We have countered with a trillion dollar-plus nuclear weapons modernization program to build
even newer weapons that will be more susceptible to being used in what would be called in the
past conventional warfare.
So it's very dangerous.
What should have happened at this summit, and what I was hoping was going to happen,
was that there were enough people left- enough arms control people, enough diplomatic people
and so forth, in both the Pentagon and the State Department- that the standard book would
go with President Trump to the meeting, just as I know it came with Putin.
That book would have everything in it, from intermediate nuclear forces, to strategic
nuclear forces, to Ukraine, Crimea, NATO, Syria, all the issues that should have been
talked about, particularly the nuclear issues.
The SALT talks, for example, and the SALT treaties, which Putin keeps saying are going
to expire, and nobody's doing anything about.
He's right.
These should have been all worked out ahead of time in terms of what is the U.S. position,
and what is it we want to achieve in these talks with Russia.
As I see it, there were very few people who took these kinds of very, very carefully planned
strategized books and points to the meeting.
And if there were, they were all overcome by the private talks that Trump had, because
Trump disdains this kind of detail, this kind of work ahead of time.
This kind of diplomacy that has to be finely tuned, and is sophisticated and complex, and
achieves at the end of the day what you want to achieve, or as near to it as is possible.
I don't see anything like that having happened.
So what I see at this point is a squandered opportunity to deal with some of these very
serious issues, which I was hoping, hoping beyond hope perhaps, would happen.
It's something that does very dramatically need to happen.
That is to say, meaningful talks between the leadership in Moscow and the leadership in
Washington, and some results that we can all point at that are not just in the interest
of the two negotiating sides but also in the interest of the world.
SHARMINI PERIES: Now, Larry, from what I understand from this morning's announcement that the
invitation that Trump had issued to Vladimir Putin to come to Washington is now rescinded,
or it's off.
Apparently there was no movement on either side to make sure this happens.
Now, are you surprised by that move?
LARRY WILKERSON: Not at all, politically.
Because most of everything Donald Trump has done of substance since he was elected is
based on his reading of his domestic political needs.
As the German foreign minister said so aptly, I think, about his withdrawal from the Joint
Comprehensive Plan of Action, the nuclear agreement with Iran, it was all based on domestic
politics in the United States.
It had nothing to do with strategy, nothing to do with security, nothing to do with NATO
or the security of Western Europe.
It had everything to do with Donald Trump and his political base.
I think the German foreign minister was absolutely correct.
So I have to look at everything that Trump does from that perspective, because that's
his first consideration.
So what he saw was what you cited at the beginning; 46 percent thought he was treasonous, and
he said, ooh, John- talking to John Bolton, his national security adviser- walk this bit
back about a meeting, and put it out that we're walking it back because we want the
brouhaha about the meeting to subside.
We want the accusations about the meeting to subside a bit before we invite Mr. Putin
to come to Washington.
This is bad on two levels.
One, Mr. Putin should come to Washington, and we should continue the talks, and hopefully,
in the way that I describe, good meaningful talks earlier.
That's how we should continue them, particularly the nuclear issues.
And two, because we do not need a war in Europe.
And it's increasingly apparent that both sides are looking very hard at the potential for
that war.
And if you want a war that will pale- make all the other prospects, Iran, Syria, North
Korea and everything else, pale in comparison, let's have one break out in Europe, and let's
have one go nuclear.
This is bad stuff.
So I really would like to see Mr. Putin come to Washington and meaningful talks take place.
But to answer your question, and to reiterate, the reason this delay or maybe even cancellation
altogether has occurred is because Trump read the domestic political signals and said, oop,
can't get caught in this mess.
The midterms are coming up.
These midterms, Sharmini, are going to determine the fate of the Republican Party.
If the Democrats were to win both houses of the U.S. Congress in November, I think impeachment
would be on the table for a majority of Republicans, and certainly Democrats, almost instantly.
So Trump has got to start thinking about these midterms.
And so I think that's the reason he canceled it, or at least told John Bolton to tell the
Russians that it'll be later.
SHARMINI PERIES: All right, Larry, I thank you so much for joining us today.
LARRY WILKERSON: Thanks for having me, Sharmini.
SHARMINI PERIES: And thank you for joining us here on The Real News Network.