NIGHT. >>> AND GOOD EVENING, ONCE
AGAIN, FROM OUR NBC NEWS
HEADQUARTERS HERE IN NEW YORK.
DAY 651 OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, AND FIVE DAYS
AHEAD OF ELECTION DAY, THE
PRESIDENT SAID TONIGHT THAT
ALTHOUGH TWO MANIACS HAD
DISRUPTED THE MOMENTUM OF THE
MIDTERM CAMPAIGNS, ONE WITH PIPE
BOMBS, THE OTHER WITH AN AR-15
IN A SYNAGOGUE, HE FEELS THE
MOMENTUM COMING BACK.
MORE ON THAT IN A MOMENT.
BUT FIRST TONIGHT WE BEGIN WITH
THE LOOMING KPEEXISTENTIAL THREA
THAT HANGS OVER THIS
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. THAT WOULD BE THE RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION, AND SPECIFICALLY
THIS LATEST REPORTING FROM "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" THAT MAY FURTHER
CONNECT THE DOTS BETWEEN THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT AND
RUSSIA.
RUSSIA. THIS IS NEW REPORTING ABOUT
VETERAN TRUMP ADVISOR ROGER
STONE, FRIEND OF THE PRESIDENT
FOR 30 YEARS, AND HIS LINKS TO
WIKILEAKS AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN
DURING 2016.
DURING 2016. ONE OF THE COAUTHORS, MICHAEL
SCHMIDT, IS STANDING BY TO JOIN
US.
US. THE TIMES IS REPORTING ON A
NEWLY REVEALED E-MAIL EXCHANGE
BETWEEN STONE AND CAMPAIGN HEAD
STEVE BANNON THAT, QUOTE,
UNDERSCORES HOW MR. STONE
PRESENTED HIMSELF TO TRUMP
CAMPAIGN OFFICIALS: AS A CONDUIT
OF INSIDE INFORMATION FROM
WIKILEAKS, RUSSIA’S CHOSEN
REPOSITORY FOR DOCUMENTS HACKED
FROM DEMOCRATIC COMPUTERS.
MR. BANNON AND TWO OTHER FORMER
SENIOR CAMPAIGN OFFICIALS HAVE
DETAILED TO PROSECUTORS FOR
SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER
HOW MR. STONE CREATED THAT
IMPRESSION, ACCORDING TO PEOPLE
FAMILIAR WITH THEIR ACCOUNTS.
ONE OF THEM TOLD INVESTIGATORS
THAT MR. STONE NOT ONLY SEEMED
TO PREDICT WIKILEAKS’ ACTIONS,
BUT THAT HE ALSO TOOK CREDIT
AFTERWARD FOR THE TIMING OF ITS
DISCLOSURES THAT DAMAGED HILLARY
CLINTON’S CANDIDACY.
CLINTON’S CANDIDACY. ACCORDING TO THE TIMES, AFTER
ROGER STONE TWEETED ABOUT
PREDICTIONS OF AN OCTOBER
SURPRISE FROM WIKILEAKS FOUNDER
JULIAN ASSANGE, A REPORTER FROM
BREITBART E-MAILED HIM, QUOTE,
ASSANGE, WHAT’S HE GOT?
HOPE IT’S GOOD.
STONE WRITES BACK, IT IS.
I’D TELL BANNON, BUT HE DOESN’T
CALL ME BACK.
THE BREITBART REPORTER FORWARDED
THE E-MAILS TO BANNON, HE SEEMED
TO BRUSH THEM OFF.
THE NEXT DAY ASSANGE HELD A
PRESS CONFERENCE PROMISING
WEEKLY DUMPS OF DOCUMENTS.
>> WE HOPE TO BE PUBLISHING
EVERY WEEK FOR THE NEXT TEN
WEEKS.
WEEKS. WE HAVE ON SCHEDULE -- AND IT’S
A VERY HARD SCHEDULE -- ALL THE
U.S. ELECTION-RELATED DOCUMENTS
TO COME OUT BEFORE NOVEMBER 8.
>> AFTER THAT, STEVE BANNON
REACHED OUT TO ROGER STONE TO
ASK ABOUT IT, WRITING, WHAT WAS
THAT THIS MORNING?
STONE RESPONDED, A LOAD EVERY
WEEK GOING FORWARD.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS,
QUOTE, IN AN INTERVIEW ON
WEDNESDAY, MR. STONE INSISTED HE
DID NOTHING MORE THAN POSTURE,
BLUFF, HYPE BASED ON WIKILEAKS
TWITTER FEED AND MISCELLANEOUS
TIPS.
TIPS. STONE HAS ISSUED SIMILAR DENIALS
ABOUT ALLEGED TIES TO WIKILEAKS
IN RECENT MONTHS, WHILE ALSO
LASHING OUT AT MUELLER.
>> IT IS NOT INCONCEIVABLE NOW
THAT MR. MUELLER AND HIS TEAM
MAY SEEK TO CONJURE UP SOME
EXTRANEOUS CRIME PERTAINING TO
MY BUSINESS OR MAYBE NOT EVEN
PERTAINING TO THE 2016 ELECTION.
BUT I HAD NO ADVANCE NOTICE OF
THE CONTENT, SOURCE, OR THE
EXACT DISCLOSURE TIME OF THE
WIKILEAKS DISCLOSURES.
WIKILEAKS DISCLOSURES. >>> IT’S NOW ABUNDANTLY CLEAR
THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL SEEKS
TO GO THROUGH EVERY ASPECT OF MY
PERSONAL, BUSINESS AND POLITICAL
LIFE, TRY TO CONJURE UP SOME
OFFENSE TO PRESSURE ME TO
TESTIFY AGAINST THE PRESIDENT.
>>> I KNOW THAT THERE EXISTS
NOWHERE EVIDENCE OF RUSSIAN
COLLUSION OR WIKILEAKS
COLLABORATION OR ANY NONSENSE
PERTAINING TO JOHN PODESTA’S
E-MAIL.
E-MAIL. BUT I’M ALSO MINDFUL OF ANY
PROSECUTOR’S ABILITY TO SQUEEZE
UNDERLINGS TO GET THEM TO
COMPOSE TESTIMONY AGAINST A
BIGGER FISH.
BIGGER FISH. >> A NUMBER OF STONE’S
ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED
BY MUELLER’S TEAM, AND STONE IS
ALSO FIRMING BACK -- FIRING
BACK, RATHER, AT STEVE BANNON IN
AN OP-ED IN TODAY’S DAILY
CALLER.
CALLER. HE’S ACCUSING BANNON OF LEAKING
THEIR E-MAIL EXCHANGE TO THE
MEDIA.
MEDIA. STONE WRITES, QUOTE, BANNON’S
ANIMUS TOWARD ME STEMS FROM A
COLUMN A WROTE FOR THE DAILY
CALLER WRITING HE OUTLIVED HIS
USE IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AND
SHOULD BE FIRED.
THE NEXT DAY HE WAS.
ON THAT NOTE, LET’S BRING IN OUR
LEAD-OFF PANEL FOR A THURSDAY
NIGHT.
NIGHT. FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI
ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTER
INTELLIGENCE WHO IN THE PAST
WORKED FOR ROBERT MUELLER.
CYNTHIA OXNEY, FEDERAL RIGHTS
DIVISION WHO WORKED WITH AMONG
OTHERS ROBERT MUELLER, AND
JEREMY BASH, CIA AND PENTAGON,
FORMER CHIEF COUNSEL HOUSE INTEL
COMMITTEE.
COMMITTEE. WE ALSO ASKED MICHAEL SCHMIDT TO
JOIN US AT THE TOP OF THE
BROADCAST HERE.
BROADCAST HERE. THE PULITZER PRIZE WINNING
WRITER FOR THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
PEOPLE ARRIVING LATE TO HOME,
HAVING HAD A CHANCE TO READ AND
DIGEST THIS WORK YOU CONTRIBUTED
TO, WHAT DO YOU VIEW AS THE TAKE
AWAY CONCERNING THE ROLE OF
MESSIEURS STONE AND BANNON?
>> WHAT THESE NEW E-MAILS WE
BROUGHT FORWARD TODAY SHOW IS
THE CENTRAL QUESTION OF STONE IN
THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION.
WAS STONE SOMEONE WHO WAS SIMPLY
TRYING TO BOAST ABOUT CONTACTS
WITH ASSANGE AND WIKILEAKS TO
GIVE HIM EXTRA RELEVANCE, TO
GIVE HIM BETTER CURRENCY IN THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND AROUND THE
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? OR WAS HE TRULY IN TOUCH WITH
THEM?
THEM? WAS HE TRULY A CUT-OUT, TRULY A
CONDUIT?
CONDUIT? AND THE CAMPAIGN WASN’T REALLY
SURE.
SURE. SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE -- FROM THE
CAMPAIGN, INCLUDING BANNON, HAVE
TOLD MUELLER THAT BANNON
REPRESENTED HIMSELF AS IN TOUCH
WITH THESE -- WITH ASSANGE AND
WITH WIKILEAKS.
WITH WIKILEAKS. BUT WHO REALLY KNEW WHAT HE WAS
DOING?
DOING? THE CAMPAIGN WAS ALSO NOT REALLY
SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF STONE.
THEY DIDN’T WANT TO ALIENATE
HIM.
HIM. STONE IS SOMEONE WHO, YOU KNOW,
HAS OPENLY SAYS HE’S GONE OUT
AND CREATED POLITICAL PROBLEMS
FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
HE’S SOMEONE THAT THE PRESIDENT
TRUSTS, AND HE WAS SOMEONE WHO,
ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE CAMPAIGN,
WAS DOING A LOT OF WORK FOR THE
PRESIDENT, REALLY TRYING TO
UNDERCUT HILLARY CLINTON
PUBLICLY, AND LEADING THOSE
EFFORTS IN A WAY THAT MAYBE THE
CAMPAIGN THOUGHT THAT THEY
COULDN’T.
COULDN’T. SO, WHAT THESE E-MAILS SHOW IS
THAT DIFFICULT BALANCE THAT THE
CAMPAIGN HAD WITH DEALING WITH
STONE, GIVING HIM ATTENTION, AND
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
ASSANGE REALLY HAD COMING INTO
THE ELECTION, AND WHAT MUELLER
IS LOOKING AT IN THE LARGER SORT
OF SENSE OF THE INVESTIGATION,
WHERE STONE FITS IN.
>> MICHAEL, YOU ARE FOND ON THIS
BROADCAST OF DESCRIBING THE
MUELLER EFFORT IN TERMS OF
BUCKETS.
BUCKETS. AND WE ARE IN YOUR DEBT, BECAUSE
IT’S A GOOD WORD PICTURE TO
PAINT.
PAINT. WHERE DO YOU, IN LIGHT OF THAT
VIEW, THOSE VARIOUS BUCKETS, IN
TERMS OF COMPLETION BASED ON
WHAT YOU KNOW?
>> WELL, IN TERMS OF BUCKETS AND
THE PRESIDENT, IT’S PROBABLY
BEST TO LOOK AT IT WITH THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. IN TERMS OF THIS, THIS FALLS IN
THE COLLUSION BUCKET AND WHAT
DOES THE PRESIDENT KNOW.
WAS THIS INFORMATION THAT
TRICKLED BACK DO HIM?
DID STONE TELL THE PRESIDENT
ABOUT HIS CONTACTS WITH
WIKILEAKS?
WIKILEAKS? DID ANYONE IN THE CAMPAIGN WHO
STONE SPOKE TO TALK TO THE
PRESIDENT ABOUT DID?
WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT KNOW?
THAT IS EVEN A QUESTION THAT
MUELLER HAS FOR THE PRESIDENT.
WHEN WE LEARNED THE VARIOUS
QUESTIONS MUELLER WANTS TO ASK
THE PRESIDENT, THIS IS PART OF
IT, HOW MUCH OF THAT INFORMATION
GOT BACK DO HIM.
THESE ARE COLLUSION QUESTIONS.
THE THING ABOUT THE BUCKETS IS
MANY OF THE PRESIDENT’S PROBLEMS
ARE IN THE OBSTRUCTION BUCKET,
THINGS HE HAS DONE SINCE HE CAME
TO OFFICE, HIS INTERACTIONS WITH
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, HIS
TREATMENT OF JIM COMEY, HIS
TREATMENT OF HIS ATTORNEY
GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS.
THIS IS MUCH MORE IN THE
COLLUSION AREA WHERE THERE ARE
FEWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> MIKE SCHMIDT, THE CREATOR AS
FAR AS WE KNOW OF THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION AND THE COAUTHOR
OF TODAY APARTMENTS PIECE OF
WORK BY "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
MIKE, THANKS FOR STAYING UP WITH
US.
US. WE KNOW IT’S BEEN A LONG DAY.
THANK YOU FOR BEING ON THE
BROADCAST AGAIN.
BROADCAST AGAIN. LET’S GO TO OUR PANEL TO START
OFF, AND THAT WOULD BE FRANK.
FRANK, TELL ME HOW IT IS THAT
MR. STONE CAN RIGHTFULLY CONTEND
THAT HE HAS TAKEN AND PASSED A
LIE DETECTOR TEST?
TELL ME HOW IT IS HE CAN CONTEND
WITH SUCH SURETY THAT HE WAS
NEVER IN TOUCH WITH ANY RUSSIANS
ON THE OTHER SIDE.
>> WELL, A LIE DETECTOR TEST IS
GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT.
SO, THE QUESTIONS HAVE TO BE THE
RIGHT QUESTIONS.
RIGHT QUESTIONS. SO, IF YOU’RE PAYING FOR YOUR
OWN LIE DETECTOR TEST, YOU CAN
PAY FOR THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO
BE ASKED, AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT
ANSWERS TO THOSE RIGHT
QUESTIONS.
QUESTIONS. IF THE EXAMINER IS ASKING YOU,
DID YOU EVER TALK TO ANYONE AT
WIKILEAKS, AND THE TRUE ANSWER
IS NO, YOU’RE OKAY.
YOU CAN SAY NO.
BUT HE’S NOT ASKING YOU THE
QUESTIONS THAT REALLY MATTER,
LIKE, WERE YOU IN CONTACT WITH
THE RUSSIANS WHO WERE IN CONTACT
WITH WIKILEAKS?
WITH WIKILEAKS? OR MAYBE YOU WEREN’T IN DIRECT
CONTACT WITH WIKILEAKS, BUT
CREDIT CO WAS OR SOMEONE ELSE
WAS.
WAS. YOU SHAPE THE QUESTIONS AND YOU
PRONOUNCE TO THE WORLD THAT
YOU’VE PASSED YOUR OWN
POLYGRAPH.
POLYGRAPH. THAT’S THE WAY THAT’S DONE.
>> AS A FRIEND OF MINE LIKES TO
SAY, FRANK, THERE IS NOTHING
THAT WILL SERIOUS YOU UP IN A
HURRY QUITE LIKE SITTING ACROSS
FROM MUELLER AND/OR HIS
INVESTIGATORS.
INVESTIGATORS. WHAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN THAT
ROOM WITH ROGER STONE?
>> WELL, LET’S UNDERSTAND THIS.
THE PERSON THAT KNOWS MORE THAN
ROGER STONE EVEN REALIZES IS
MUELLER.
MUELLER. WHY IS THAT?
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT WIKILEAKS.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE SERVICE.
INTELLIGENCE SERVICE. THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
HAS THOSE ENTITIES COVERED LIKE
A BLANKET.
A BLANKET. THAT MEANS THAT MUELLER HAS THE
ANSWERS TO THE TEST.
HE HAS BOTH ENDS OF THE
EQUATION.
EQUATION. SO SOMEONE NEEDSTONE NEEDS TO MA
DECISION.
DECISION. I’M EITHER GOING TO LIE TO THE
FBI AND BE CHARGED WITH THAT
AMONG OTHER CHARGES, OR I HAVE
TO REALIZE THEY HAVE THE
ANSWERED TO THE TEST, THEY KNOW
THE OTHER END OF THE
COMMUNICATIONS.
COMMUNICATIONS. SO, WHEN YOU GET TO THIS POINT
IN AN INVESTIGATION, BRIAN, IT’S
COMING TO THE END.
THEY’RE ASKING YOU QUESTIONS TO
SEE IF YOU’RE GOING TO LIE ABOUT
WHAT THEY ALREADY KNOW TO BE
TRUE.
TRUE. >> WELL, SOUNDS LIKE THAT WOULD
SERIOUS UP MOST PEOPLE.
YOO
YOO >>> CYNTHIA, WITH YOUR FORMER
TRAINED FEDERAL EYE, WHAT DO YOU
SEE IN TODAY’S REPORTING BY MIKE
AND HIS COLLEAGUES?
>> I DON’T THINK WE KNOW BECAUSE
IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER.
EITHER, YOU KNOW, HE CALLS
HIMSELF THE KING OF DIRTY
TRICKS.
TRICKS. HE HAS A TATTOO OF NIXON ON HIS
BACK WHICH IS JUST AS CREEPY AS
CAN BE.
CAN BE. >> I WASN’T GOING TO MENTION
THAT.
THAT. >> JUST WOW, OOH, TOO EVEN LATE
TO TALK ABOUT IT.
ANYWAY, AND IT COULD BE -- IT
REASONABLY CAN BE THAT HE WAS
COMPLETELY BLUFFING, OR IT CAN
BE THAT HE DID KNOW EVERYTHING.
AND WHEN THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD
TAPE CAME DOWN, HE USED SOME
SECRET WAY TO COMMUNICATE WITH
ASSANGE AND SAID, PLEASE DROP
E-MAILS.
E-MAILS. AND WE JUST DON’T KNOW THAT.
MUELLER KNOWS THAT BUT WE DON’T.
>>> SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE KNOW.
WE KNOW TWO OTHER THINGS.
ONE, HE’S A SERIAL LIAR, BECAUSE
REMEMBER, HE SAID ORIGINALLY, I
NEVER SPOKE TO ANY RUSSIANS.
THAT TURNS OUT TO NOT BE TRUE
BECAUSE THERE ARE TEXTS THAT
SHOW HE DID TALK TO A RUSSIAN
WHO OFFERED TO GIVE HIM DIRT ON
HILLARY CLINTON FOR $2 MILLION,
AND HE REMEMBERED IN THE TEXTS
WHAT THE GUY WAS WEARING.
HE CALLED HIM THE CRAZY RUSSIAN.
HE SAID HE HAD A RUSSIAN ACCENT.
SO THAT WAS A COMPLETE LIE.
AND IT WAS JUST THIS WEEK HE
SAID THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO
E-MAILS WHICH SUGGEST THAT I
EVER TOLD ANYBODY IN THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN ABOUT JULIAN ASSANGE
AND WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH
WIKILEAKS.
WIKILEAKS. BUT, IN FACT, WE HAVE THIS
E-MAIL TODAY.
E-MAIL TODAY. SO, WE KNOW HE’S A SERIAL LIAR.
THAT’S ONE THING WE NO.
THE OTHER THING WE KNOW IS
DURING THE CAMPAIGN, AFTER HE
LEFT THE CAMPAIGN AND DURING THE
GENERAL ELECTION, HE HAD SEVERAL
CAMPAIGN COMMITTEES THAT WERE
GOING ON THAT MUELLER IS ALSO
INVESTIGATING.
INVESTIGATING. HE WAS MAKING A FILM AT SOME
POINT ABOUT BILL CLINTON, WHICH
WAS VERY NEGATIVE, AND HE ALSO
HAD ANOTHER CAMPAIGN.
AND THE PERSON WHO WAS WORKING
IN THAT OTHER CAMPAIGN, IT HAD
ABOUT $350,000 IN IT IN A C-4,
HAS BEEN TALKING TO MUELLER.
SO, IT MAY BE ONE OF THOSE
SITUATIONS WHERE HE BLUFFED AND
SAID HE WAS SO IMPORTANT, WHICH
GOT HIMSELF INVESTIGATED BY
MUELLER.
MUELLER. THE END RESULT MAY BE THAT
CAUSED MUELLER TO FIND OUT ABOUT
OTHER THINGS ABOUT HIM, WHICH
MAY BE TRUE.
AND WE JUST DON’T KNOW THAT YET,
BUT WE WILL KNOW REASONABLY
SOON.
SOON. >> SO, JEREMY, WE HAVE BEEN
TALKING WITH MIKE AND FRANK AND
CYNTHIA THUS FAR ABOUT
MR. STONE.
MR. STONE. LET ME LEAD YOU TO MR. BANNON.
AS WE LIKE TO SAY, CALL-BACKS
ARE ONLY GOOD IN AUDITIONS.
THEY’RE NOT GOOD WHEN IT’S
MUELLER, AND YOU’VE ALREADY
SPENT 20 HOURS, AND NOW BANNON
HAS GONE BACK AGAIN.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE RISK IS IN
THIS TIME LINE THAT WE’RE SEEING
SO FAR TO MR. BANNON?
>> WELL, I THINK THE BIG
PICTURE, BRIAN, IS THAT THERE
WAS A TRUMP TOWER MEETING IN
JUNE.
JUNE. AT THAT MEETING, THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT SENT A DELEGATION,
AND THEY INFORMED THE HIGH
COMMAND OF THE CAMPAIGN --
MANAFORT, TRUMP JUNIOR AND
KUSHNER -- THAT HAD, IN FACT,
THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WOULD BE
INTERCEDING IN THE ELECTION WITH
HACKED E-MAILS BY DUMPING THEM
INTO THE CAMPAIGN.
THEY WERE INFORMED OF THAT IN
JUNE AND THE CONVERSATION WAS
ABOUT WHAT POLICY TRADES THEY
WOULD GET IF TRUMP WERE EELECTED
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. FOLLOWING THE INDICTMENT OF THE
RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS,
THE RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE
OFFICERS MOVED THOSE HACKED
E-MAILS TO WIKILEAKS.
AND NOW WE SEE THAT ROGER STONE
GOT A HEADS UP ABOUT THOSE, THAT
DUMPING OF THOSE E-MAILS AND HE
INFORMED THE CAMPAIGN MANAGER,
STEVE BANNON.
STEVE BANNON. SO NOW WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING
INDIVIDUALS ON THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN WITTING OF THE RUSSIAN
PLOT.
PLOT. BANNON, KUSHNER, MANAFORT,
DONALD TRUMP, JR.
TO BELIEVE THAT DONALD TRUMP,
OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT, DIDN’T
KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, YOU HAVE
TO BELIEVE NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE
MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT IT OVER
A SPAN OF SEVERAL MONTHS.
SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS MENTIONING