Judy: Today for the third time
in 24 hours, a military base in
Russia was attacked.
Moscow blamed Ukraine.
Meantime, the drive for
accountability for Russian war
crimes in Ukraine continues.
In a moment, Nick schifrin will
speak with a leading Ukrainian
human rights activist, but first
he joins me here.
Nick, hello.
What do we know about these
targets that were struck inside
Russia, and what about the
weapons used?
Nick: The target today was an
oil field near an airfield in
southern Russia.
The Russian governor said
multiple drones struck it, you
can see it on fire.
The location is about 50 miles
from the ukraine-russia border.
What is significant is the
pattern and location of the
attacks yesterday on a Russian
base 372 miles from the
Ukrainian border.
That base hosts nuclear capable,
long-range bombers that have
bombed Ukraine P and another
Russian base is 350 miles from
the Ukraine border.
Ukraine is not taking public
credit for these but it is
giving ands.
-- Hints.
The defense minister joked that
maybe Russian soldiers were
smoking near flammable objects.
>> The enemy often keeps
violating safety rules.
They smoke in different
dangerous places, and often we
hear a word that is sweet to
every Ukrainian's ear -- cotton.
Nick: He said that remind him of
the smoke that appear above the
bases that were attacked in
Russia.
A taunt but not confirming or
denying.
The officials I talked to said
Ukraine did conduct these
attacks with drones that they
essentially create with
technology they patch together.
Not with any kind of U.S.
Weapon.
The Biden administration has
refused Ukraine's requests to
send them the longest range my
best weapons they have for fear
of escalation, for fear of these
kind of attacks that could
escalate the war.
Today, secretary of state
blinken was very clear, he said
these attacks in Russia need to
be seen in context.
Secrblinken: We have not
encouraged the Ukrainians to
strike inside Russia, but the
important thing is to understand
they are living with everyday.
Nick: To give you a sense of how
important the strikes are,
British intelligence in the U.K.
Said today they are the most
strategically significant
failures of force protection
since the start of the war.
Judy: How are the Russians
responding?
Nick: Trying to create the same
terror they've been trying to
create for months.
They launched nearly one
official strike off homes and
heating infrastructure.
Odessa had to rely on generators
and background of spokesman
today prospects for peace and
Russia must achieve its stated
goals.
Today in Ukraine, president
zelenskyy was defiant, he was
giving Ukrainian soldiers
awards.
He said the country deserved to
gain victory and justice.
One of the organizations hoping
Dutch helping Ukraine achieve
justice is the kyiv-based centre
for civil liberties, one of the
groups seeking justice, will
receive the Nobel peace prize
this Saturday in Oslo, Norway.
Its head is oleksandra
matviichuk.
I spoke with her just a short
time ago, and began by asking
her why a human rights lawyer
and Nobel peace prize recipient,
was calling for Ukraine to be
given more weapons.
Oleksandra: I am a human rights
lawyer the fitting people for
many years.
But I and many human rights
defenders have occult
circumstances when the law
doesn't work and the whole
system is unable to stop the
Russians did we have no legal
instrument.
The truth is, if we want to stop
murder and torture in these
territories, we need weapons.
Nick: When I was in kharkiv a
few month ago, I saw Russian
torture chambers, and Russian
soldiers had left behind the
devices of dehumanization.
The wire they used the struggle
Ukrainians, the electricity they
used to torture Ukrainians.
Have these crimes occurred
nearly everywhere Russia has
occupied?
Oleksandra: Yes, and for all
these eight years --
Nick: Since we 14?
Oleksandra: Yes.
I have interviewed people,
they've told me horrible
stories, how the were beaten and
raped, how her fingers were
caught, nails drilled, tortured
with electricity, compelled to
write with their own blood.
One woman told me her eyes were
dug out with a spoon.
Nick: You've been documenting
these horrors for many years.
Created an initiative that has
documented more than 24,000
alleged war crimes.
How shocking is that scale?
Oleksandra: It is an enormous
amount of crimes, meaning an
enormous amount of pain.
We are documenting not just
violations to the Geneva
conventions, we document pain.
The Russians are attacking
churches, schools, hospitals.
They commit murder, rape,
torture, objections, and other
kinds of offenses.
Nick: You and senior Ukrainian
officials have consistently
talked about creating a special
tribunal in order to achieve
justice.
Why is the international
criminal court not enough?
Oleksandra: It has no
jurisdiction over crimes of
aggression.
We need additional international
mechanisms to prosecute for such
kind of crimes.
But we need even more.
We need an international
tribunal that can cover the war
crimes, crimes against amenity,
and genocide.
Now we are faced with
accountability in Ukraine.
The national system is
overloaded with crimes.
International criminal court
will limit its investigation
only to several select cases.
The question is, who will
provide a chance for justice for
the hundreds of thousands of
victims who are not lucky enough
to be selected by the
international criminal court?
Nick: Is the goal and a special
tribunal, specifically the crime
of aggression, which the icc
does not have jurisdiction over,
is the goal to hold senior
officials to account, including
Vladimir Putin himself?
Oleksandra: Putin and senior
leadership, and high military
command.
Nick: For the first time the
European mission has endorsed
your call for a special
tribunal, but the U.S. Has still
not endorsed a special tribunal,
and officials I speak to here
are worried it could take a long
time to create a special
tribunal from scratch, and it
could dilute the work of the
icc.
What do you say?
Oleksandra: They are
interconnected, complex.
Ok, before the international
tribunal takes too much time, we
have lessons learned to do it
faster.
Nick: Meaning you want justice
to be achieved during the war
itself?
Oleksandra: Yes.
Why are we looking through the
prism of the tribunal, criminals
were tried after the Nazi regime
collapsed.
Nick: Do you think the west has
failed to hold food into account
in the past, long before 2014 --
hold Putin into account in the
past, long before 2014?
Oleksandra: All of this in
Ukraine is the total impunity of
Russian troops in many different
areas and countries of the world
.
They have never been punished.
The Russians believe they can do
whatever they want.
Nick: Last week and we heard
something from the French
president.
He said the end of the war would
require Russian security
guarantees.
Are you concerned the
international community is more
concerned in peace than justice?
Oleksandra: The international
community has to take the truth,
and to understand that they will
not be sustainable peace in the
region without justice.
We speak about a culture of
impunity, we speak about a
situation when Russia predicates
the use of war as a tool.
And were crimes, methods to win
the war.
Nick: Do you think this is a
global fight?
How important is it for the
fight overall against
authoritarianism, that Ukraine
find justice?
Oleksandra: It is a global
fight.
This war has a distant value
dimension.
Putin tried to convince not only
Ukrainians but the whole world
that the rule of law, democracy
are fake values.
Other authoritarian leaders in
the world can be inspired by
this example.