NIGHT STARTS RIGHT NOW. >>> GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN FROM
OUR NBC NEWS HEADQUARTERS HERE
IN NEW YORK.
I’M STEVE KERR NACKI.
BRIAN WILLIAMS IS UNDER THE
WEATHER.
WEATHER. DAY 729 OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, DAY 28 OF THE
SHUTDOWN, SOON TO BE DAY 29.
WE BEGIN WITH BREAKING NEWS.
SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER
IS DISPUTING THIS BUZZFEED
REPORT THAT BROKE LATE LAST
NIGHT CLAIMING THAT THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
DIRECTED MICHAEL COHEN TO LIE TO
CONGRESS ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS TO
BUILD A TRUMP TOWER IN MOSCOW.
CITING TWO LAW ENFORCEMENT
SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH THE
INVESTIGATION, BUZZFEED REPORTED
THAT TRUMP ALSO ENDORSE ADD PLAN
TO VISIT RUSSIA DURING THE
CAMPAIGN AND TO MEET PERSONALLY
WITH PUTIN TO ADVANCE THE DEAL,
AND THAT THE PRESIDENT IN TWO &
TWO OF HIS CHILDREN, ALL
RECEIVED DETAILED AND REGULAR
UPDATES FROM COHEN ON THE STATUS
OF THE PROJECT.
BUZZFEED ALSO SAID THAT
ACCORDING TO ITS SOURCES, QUOTE,
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE
LEARNED ABOUT TRUMP’S DIRECTIVE
FOR COHEN TO LIE TO CONGRESS
THROUGH INTERVIEWS WITH MULTIPLE
WITNESSES FROM THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION AND INTERNAL
COMPANY E-MAILS, TEXT MESSAGES,
AND A CACHE OF OTHER DOCUMENTS.
RUDY GIULIANI PUSHED BACK ON THE
BUZZFEED STORY.
BUZZFEED STORY. TONIGHT, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
OFFICE MADE A VERY RARE MOVE OF
ISSUING A PUBLIC STATEMENT.
IT READS, QUOTE, BUZZFEED’S
DESCRIPTION OF SPECIFIC
STATEMENTS TO THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S OFFICE, AND
CHARACTERIZATION OF DOCUMENTS
AND TESTIMONY OBTAINED BY THIS
OFFICE, REGARDING MICHAEL
COHEN’S CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY
ARE NOT ACCURATE.
THE EDITOR IN CHIEF RESPONDED IN
QUOTE IN RESPONSE FOR THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL’S SPOKESMAN, WE
STAND BY OUR REPORTING AND THE
SOURCES WHO INFORMED IT, AND WE
URGE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL TO MAKE
CLEAR WHAT HE’S DISPUTING.
SHORT TIME AGO, BEN SMITH SPOKE
TO OUR COLLEAGUE, CHRIS HAYES.
>> WE WENT TO THEM 24 HOURS AGO
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY DECLINED TO
COMMENT ON IT.
OBVIOUSLY THE SPECIAL COUNSEL
PREFERS TO CONTROL THE TIME LINE
AND FOR REASONABLE REASONS WANTS
TO OPERATE ON HIS OWN TIME LINE
AND WITHOUT REVEALING A LOT OF
DETAIL.
DETAIL. >> SMITH ALSO TOLD RACHEL MADDOW
THAT BUZZFEED SOURCES CONTINUE
TO STAND BY THEIR INFORMATION.
RUDY GIULIANI ALSO WEIGHED IN
TONIGHT SENDING THIS MESSAGE ON
TWITTER.
TWITTER. QUOTE, I COMMEND BOB MUELLER’S
OFFICE FOR CORRECTING THE
BUZZFEED FALSE STORY THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP ENCOURAGED COHEN
TO LIE.
TO LIE. I ASK THE PRESS TO TAKE HEED
THAT THEIR HYSTERICAL DESIRE TO
DESTROY THIS PRESIDENT HAS GONE
TOO FAR.
TOO FAR. THEY PURSUED THIS WITHOUT
CRITICAL ANALYSIS.
CRITICAL ANALYSIS. ALL DAY HE USED THE
HASHTAG #FAKENEWS.
HASHTAG #FAKENEWS. REMEMBER IT WAS BUZZFEED THAT
RELEASED THE TOTALLY DISCREDITED
DOSSIER PAID FOR BY CROOKED
HILLARY CLINTON ON WHICH THE
ENTIRE RUSSIAN PROBE IS BASED, A
VERY SAD DAY FOR JOURNALISM, BUT
A GREAT DAY FOR OUR COUNTRY.
AGAIN, THAT IS THE PRESIDENT
MOMENTS AGO ON TWITTER.
LET’S BRING OUR PANEL FOR
ANOTHER WILD FRIDAY NIGHT HERE.
JEREMY BASH, FORMER CHIEF OF
STAFF AT THE CIA AND THE
PENTAGON, ALSO AN MSNBC NATIONAL
SECURITY ANALYST.
SECURITY ANALYST. ANDY CARNY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER
FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
JOINING US BY TELEPHONE TONIGHT,
MATTHEW MILLER.
MATTHEW MILLER. HE’S AN MSNBC JUSTICE AND
SECURITY ANALYST AND A FORMER
CHIEF SPOKESMAN FOR THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. MATT MILLER, YOUR BACKGROUND AS
A SPOKESMAN FOR THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE THAT I’M GLAD TO HAVE
YOU HERE.
YOU HERE. I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU.
I WANT TO PUT UP ON THE SCREEN A
TWEET, YOUR REACTION EARLIER
TONIGHT TO THIS STATEMENT WITH
JUST READ FROM THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
COUNSEL. YOU SAID IN THAT TWEET, LET ME
SEE IF WE CAN GET THAT UP ON THE
SCREEN HERE.
SCREEN HERE. WE MAY NOT -- THERE IT IS.
HE SAYS YOU CAN SPEND HOURS
PARSING THE CARR STATEMENT, BUT
GIVEN HOW UNUSUAL IT IS FOR ANY
DOJ OFFICE TO ISSUE THIS SORT OF
ON THE RECORD TONIGHT LET ALONE
THIS OFFICE, I SUSPECT IT MEANS
THE STORY’S CORE CONTENTION THAT
THEY HAVE EVIDENCE TRUMP TOLD
COHEN TO LIE IS FUNDAMENTALLY
WRONG.
WRONG. SEEMS LIKE THE CRUX OF THIS,
THAT THE QUESTION HERE, MATTHEW
MILLER, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO
GET MUELLER’S OFFICE TO BREAK
ITS SILENCE?
ITS SILENCE? YOU SAY IT HAS TO BE A
SIGNIFICANT ERROR IN THEIR VIEW
IN THIS STORY
>> I THINK THAT’S RIGHT, STEVE.
LOOK, AS I SAID IN THAT TWEET, A
LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO
FARCE AND SAY MAYBE WHAT THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL IS SAYING IS
THAT JUST SOME DETAILS OF THIS
STORY ARE WRONG.
LOOK, IT’S VERY UNUSUAL FOR ANY
OFFICE IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
TO ISSUE THIS KIND OF STATEMENT
ABOUT AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION.
IT’S JUST NOT SOMETHING THE
DEPARTMENT DOES.
DEPARTMENT DOES. IT’S EVEN MORE UNUSUAL FOR THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DO IT.
HE’S NOW BEEN AT THIS FOR ALMOST
TWO YEARS, IT WILL BE TWO YEARS
IN MAY.
IN MAY. THIS IS THE FIRST STATEMENT OF
THIS KIND HE’S EVER ISSUED.
AND I THINK IT’S VERY HARD TO
SEE HIM DOING THAT IF HE WAS
JUST QUIBBLING WITH ONE MINOR
DETAIL OR EVEN A MAJOR DETAIL IN
THE STORY.
THE STORY. AND IT WASN’T BECAUSE THE ENTIRE
CRUX OF THE STORY WAS WRONG.
WHAT I SUSPECT IS HAPPENING IS
HERE IS THIS IS WITHOUT A DOUBT
NOT THE FIRST STORY ABOUT
MUELLER’S WORK THAT HAS BEEN
WRONG.
WRONG. USUALLY THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
OFFICE LET’S THOSE PASS WITHOUT
CORRECTING THE PUBLIC RECORD.
THE DIFFERENCE HERE WAS THE
MAGNITUDE OF THE ACCUSATION
CONTAINED IN THE STORY, THAT THE
PRESIDENT COMMITTED A CRIME AND
THEY HAD EVIDENCE THAT HE HAD
COMMITTED A CRIME.
SKPLKTS THE FALLOUT THAT WAS
ENSUING WITH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
ALREADY TALKING ABOUT BRINGING
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS. SO IF YOU’RE THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S OFFICE AND YOU’RE
SEEING SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK
IS UNFAIRLY MALIGNING THE
PRESIDENT BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT’S
WRONG, AND IT’S BEING ATTRIBUTED
TO LAW ENFORCEMENT SOURCES.
SO THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
READING THE STORY THANK
MUELLER’S OFFICE IS LEAKING
THAT, IT REALLY DOES PUT THEM IN
AN UNTENABLE POSITION GIVEN THE
GRAVITY OF THE ACCUSATION.
>> GIVEN GRAIFT OF THE STORY,
THE DISCUSSION THAT WAS JUST
RAMPANT ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS,
QUICKLY FOLLOWED BY DISCUSSION
OF IMPEACHMENT.
OF IMPEACHMENT. GIVEN THAT AS A POSSIBLE FACTOR
IN THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE
BREAKING ITS SILENCE AND GIVEN
THAT BUZZFEED IS NOT BACKING
DOWN FROM THIS STORY AND IS, IN
FACT, CHALLENGING THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S OFFICE TO REVEAL MORE,
DO YOU THINK IT’S POSSIBLE WE
WILL HEAR MORE FROM MUELLER’S
OFFICE OR WILL THIS BE IT?
>> I DON’T THINK THEY’LL SAY
ANYTHING ELSE ON THE RECORD.
WHAT YOU’LL SEE IS PROBABLY THEM
TALKING TO OTHER REPORTERS ON
BACKGROUND AND KNOCKING DOWN THE
ORIGINAL BUZZFEED STORY,
SOMETHING THEY COULD HAVE DONE
YESTERDAY.
YESTERDAY. YOU SAW IN THAT CLIP FROM BEN
SMITH, THEY CONTACTED THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE, WE
DIDN’T COMMENT.
DIDN’T COMMENT. OFTENTIMES PEOPLE AT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT WILL TELL REPORTERS
IF THEY CALL YOU WITH A STORY
THAT’S NOT RIGHT, THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN WILL TELL
THOSE REPORTERS ON BACKGROUND
BEFORE THEY PUBLISH WHICH IS
WRONG.
WRONG. SEEMS TO ME THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S OFFICE HAS DONE VERY
LITTLE OF THAT.
THEY’VE BEEN UNWILLING TO POLICE
REPORTING EVEN ON BACKGROUND AND
EVENTS.
EVENTS. SO I THINK GIVEN THAT WE DIDN’T
DO IT YESTERDAY, MY GUESS THEY
WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK 24 HOURS,
SO THERE’S NO WAY TO PUT THE
GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE.
>> ANDY CARNY WHO COVERS THE
TRUMP WHITE HOUSE, LET ME BRING
YOU IN.
YOU IN. WE GAVE FOLKS A TASTE OF THE
PRESIDENT’S REACTION ON TWITTER
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. RUDY GIULIANI AS WELL.
YOU SAW HE USED THAT HASHTAG THE
HASHTAG FAKE NEWS, SEEMS CLEAR
FROM TRUMP’S STANDPOINT THEY ARE
GOING TO TRY TO ROLL THIS INTO A
BROADER CRITIQUE OF THE ENTIRE
NEWS MEDIA.
NEWS MEDIA. >> THIS PLAYS RIGHT INTO THEIR
HAND OF THE FAKE NEWS.
THEY SAID DONALD TRUMP JR. BEING
RETWEETED BY HIS FATHER.
THE ONE THING THAT’S A PROBLEM
FOR THE PRESIDENT HERE IS HE’S
ACT LIKING LIKE HE WAS JUST
EXONERATED BY THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
COUNSEL. MATT IS SAYING THIS WAS A
CLEARLY DEFINITIVE KNOCKING DOWN
OF THE STORY.
WE DON’T KNOW YET.
IT CERTAINLY PUTS THE STORY IN A
GRAY AREA.
GRAY AREA. THE FACTS ARE IN GRAY.
WE’LL EVENTUALLY FIND OUT
WHETHER OR NOT TRUMP DIRECTED
COHEN TO LIE IS A FACT OR NOT.
BUT RIGHT NOW IT’S IN A GRAY
AREA AND TRUMP IS ACTING LIKE
IT’S A DEFINITIVE THING.
HE’S CHEERING ON THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
COUNSEL. WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE IF DOWN
THE LINE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL
COMES OUT WITH EVIDENCE THAT IS
NOT TO HIS LIKING?
HE IS POPPING THIS UP AS A WAY
TO SHOOT DOWN ANOTHER ENEMY.
IN PREVIOUS TIMES HE’S CALLED
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL LIKE 13
ANGRY DEMOCRATS.
ANGRY DEMOCRATS. HE’S ACTING LIKE HE’S
EXONERATED.
EXONERATED. MAYBE IN THIS NEWS CYCLE, BUT IT
DOES FEED INTO THE -- IT HURTS
JOURNALISTS FOR HIM TO BE ABLE
TO SAY FAKE NEWS AND FOR THERE
TO BE SOLID GROUND MAKING THAT
CLAIM TONIGHT
CLAIM TONIGHT >> I THINK THE QUESTION LAST
NIGHT WHEN THIS STORY UNBUZZFEED
FIRST BROKE.
FIRST BROKE. THE QUESTION WAS WILL OTHER NEWS
ORGANIZATIONS LABLT REPLICATE
THE REPORTING, CORROBORATE THE
REPORTING, ADVANCE THE REPORTING
IN ANY WAY.
THERE IS SOME NEW REPORTING FROM
"THE WASHINGTON POST" AND "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" WORTH
HIGHLIGHTING HERE.
HIGHLIGHTING HERE. THIS IS FROM "THE WASHINGTON
POST."
POST." LET ME READ A BIT OF IT AGAIN.
THIS JUST IN THE LAST HOUR OR
INFO.
INFO. THE STORY ACCORDING TO "THE
WASHINGTON POST" HAD CLAIMED
COHEN ACKNOWLEDGED TO MUELLER’S
PROSECUTORS THAT THE PRESIDENT
DIRECTED HIM TO DECEIVE CONGRESS
ABOUT KEY FACTS LINKING THE
PRESIDENT TO THE PROPOSED TRUMP
TOWER PROJECT IN MOSCOW.
MUELLER LEARNED ABOUT THE
DIRECTIVE TO LIE FROM INTERVIEWS
FROM MULTIPLE WITNESSES FROM THE
TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND INTERNAL
COMPANY E-MAILS, TEXT MESSAGES
AND A CACHE OF OTHER DOCUMENTS.
MUELLER’S DENIAL ACCORDING TO
PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER
AIMS TO MAKE CLEAR THAT NONE OF
THOSE STATEMENTS IN THE STORY
ARE ACCURATE.
ARE ACCURATE. THAT FROM "THE WASHINGTON POST."
JEREMY BASH, THAT SEEMS TO BE
INITIALLY WHAT SEEMED TO BE THE
MAJOR SIGNIFICANCE OF THE
BUZZIFIED REPORT, WHAT WAS THE
MAJOR SIGNIFICANCE OF THE REPORT
WAS THE CLAIM THAT MUELLER HAD
EVIDENCE, THAT MUELLER HAD TEXT,
E-MAILS, DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE
THAT COULD ESTABLISH THE
PRESIDENT SUBORNED PERJURY.
THIS WAS NOT THE WORD OF MICHAEL
COHEN OR SOMEBODY ELSE.
IT WAS DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE.
NOW YOU HAVE, AGAIN, THIS REPORT
IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" AND THE
STATEMENT FROM ROBERT MUELLER, A
HUGE POTENTIAL HERE.
>> THAT WAS MY REACTION, HOW
COULD YOU POSSIBLY PARSE THIS IF
YOU’RE PUTTING ON YOUR LAWYER
HAT?
HAT? ONE WAY IS TO SAY THEY REALLY
TALK NARROWLY ABOUT THE
DESCRIPTIONS AND THE
CHARACTERIZATIONS, NOT ABOUT THE
UNDERLYING CLAIM IN THE STORY.
ANOTHER POSSIBLE WAY TO PARSE IT
IS TO SUGGEST THAT WHILE MUELLER
DOES BELIEVE THAT THE PRESIDENT
AND COHEN CONSPIRED TO FABRICATE
A STORY ABOUT THE TRUMP TOWER
MATTER, A STORY WHICH THEN COHEN
TOOK TO CONGRESS, AND THAT MEANS
THE PRESIDENT BEARS SOME
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT
FALSEHOOD, BUT HE DIDN’T LEARN
THAT THROUGH TEXT MESSAGES AND
E-MAILS.
E-MAILS. AND HE DIDN’T LEARN THAT THROUGH
WITNESS INTERVIEWS OR COHEN’S
DIRECT TESTIMONY.
DIRECT TESTIMONY. SO THERE MAY BE SOME WAYS TO
PARSE THIS.
PARSE THIS. I TEND TO AGREE WITH MATTHEW
THAT THIS IS A FAIRLY
SIGNIFICANT AND STRAIGHTFORWARD
DENIAL BY THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
OFFICE.
OFFICE. BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THE
PRESIDENT HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY
FOR THIS LIE THAT WE KNOW
DEFINITIVE MICHAEL COHEN TOLD TO
CONGRESS
CONGRESS >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. AGAIN, ON THAT SUBJECT, I SAY
IT’S SOME NEW REPORTING THAT’S
OUT THERE.
OUT THERE. I SHOWED FROM "THE WASHINGTON
POST."
POST." "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ALSO IN ITS
REPORTING TONIGHT, THEY HAVE ONE
PERSON, ONE SOURCE THEY SAY
FAMILIAR WITH MR. COHEN’S
TESTIMONY TO THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S PROSECUTORS SAID THAT
MR. COHEN DID NOT STATE THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAD PRESSURED HIM TO
LIE TO CONGRESS.
JEREMY, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT
THIS.
THIS. SOME OF THOSE COURT FILINGS IN
CONJUNCTION WITH HIS SENTENCING
SUGGESTED THAT COHEN’S LIES WERE
AN EFFORT TO ALIGN HIS TESTIMONY
TO CONGRESS WITH TRUMP’S PUBLIC
STATEMENTS.
STATEMENTS. I THINK LANI DAVIS SAID IN
DECEMBER ON A PODCAST THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAD NOT DIRECTED COHEN
TO LIE.
TO LIE. BUT AGAIN, THERE’S THE QUESTION
WITH MICHAEL COHEN.
HE’LL BE TESTIFYING IN FRONT OF
A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE
FEBRUARY 7th.
FEBRUARY 7th. ALL EYES WILL BE ON THAT
TESTIMONY CLEARLY.
TESTIMONY CLEARLY. >> BIG PICTURE, STEVE, THE
PRESIDENT TOLD A FALSE STORY
ABOUT THE TRUMP MOSCOW TOWER
DEAL.
DEAL. HE SAID I HAVE NO BUSINESS
DEALINGS WITH RUSSIA.
WE THEN LEARN THAT, OF COURSE,
THAT THE DEAL WAS HAPPENING NOT
JUST THROUGH THE PRIMARY SEASON
IN LATE 2015 AND EARLY 2016, BUT
ALL THROUGH MID-2016 WHEN TRUMP
WAS ACTUALLY THE REPUBLICAN
NOMINEE.
NOMINEE. WE KNOW THAT MICHAEL COHEN LIED
TO CONGRESS ABOUT IT.
WE KNOW THAT MICHAEL COHEN TRIED
TO ALIGN HIS STORY WITH THE
FALSE NARRATIVE THE PRESIDENT
WAS TELLING.
WAS TELLING. THE IDEA THAT THE PRESIDENT DID
NOTHING WRONG BEARS "O," BEARS
NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR MICHAEL