>>> THERE’S A FAIR AMOUNT OF TROUBLESOME EVIDENCE AND BAD
NEWS FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP ON
UKRAINE, BUT THERE IS ONE PLACE
IN WASHINGTON WHERE TRUMP STILL
SEES HIS WORLD VIEW LOUDLY
AFFIRMED.
AFFIRMED. TROUBLINGLY, IT’S THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT WHERE ATTORNEY
GENERAL BARR HAS GIVEN CREDENCE
TO HIS FAVORITE CONSPIRACY
THEORIES FROM CONTACTING FOREIGN
GOVERNMENTS ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF
THE RUSSIA PROBE.
BARR OPENED A CRIMINAL PROBE
INTO THE RUSSIA MUELLER PROBE, A
MOVE SO CONTROVERSIAL, BARR’S
NOW APPEARED MAKING A RARE
TELEVISION INTERVIEW APPEARANCE
TO PUSH BACK AGAINST CRITICISM.
>> THAT’S COMPLETELY WRONG AND
THERE’S NO BASIS FOR IT.
I ACT ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. JOHN DURHAM, WHO’S THE U.S.
ATTORNEY FOR CONNECTICUT IS IN
CHARGE OF THE INVESTIGATION AND
I UNDERSTAND HE’S MAKING GREAT
PROGRESS.
PROGRESS. BUT HE IS IN CHARGE OF THE
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. I’M NOT DOING THE INVESTIGATION.
>> AH, SOMEONE ELSE IS IN
CHARGE.
CHARGE. BUT THE BUCK ACTUALLY STOPS WITH
BARR, AS HE HIMSELF HAS NOT ONLY
SAID, BUT SAID UNDER OATH WHEN
IT SUITED HIM.
WHEN THERE WAS ALL THAT BLOWBACK
OVER HOW HE HANDLED THE MUELLER
PROBE, WAESS QUICKHE WAS QUICK T
THAT HE, WITH THE DEPUTY
ATTORNEY GENERAL, ARE THE PEOPLE
WHO MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISIONS.
>> HE SENT HIS REPORT TO THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL.
ATTORNEY GENERAL. AT THAT POINT, IT WAS MY BABY.
>> BUT IT WAS YOU WHO MADE THE
CHARGING DECISION, SIR.
YOU MADE THE DECISION NOT
CHARTING PRESIDENT.
CHARTING PRESIDENT. >> IN THIS CASE IT WAS THE --
YOU KNOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
AND THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL
WHO DECIDE ON THE FINAL
DECISION.
DECISION. >> SO, WHEN IS IT HIS BABY AND
WHEN IS IT IS NOT WE’RE GET INTO
THAT AS A NEW PROFILE OF BARR’S
MAKING SOME WAVES, INCLUDING
REPORTING ON SOMETHING HE SAID
WHEN HE WAS AG TWO DECADES AGO
WHEN HE SAID THE BUSH WHITE
HOUSE APPRECIATED THE
INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT AND THERE’S A
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A
GOVERNMENTAL LAWYER AND
REPRESENTING AN INDIVIDUAL IN
HIS PERSONAL CAPACITY VERSUS
WHAT YOU DO AT DOJ.
I’M JOINED BY EMILY.
THAT’S FROM HER THOROUGH PIECE
IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ENTITLED
"WHO IS BILL BARR IN".
IT LOOKDS AT HOW ESTABLISHED
REPUBLICANS THOUGHT HE WAS ONE
OF THEM AND HE’S NOT.
>> I THINK WHEN BILL BARR WAS
APPOINTED ATTORNEY GENERAL, WE
WERE COMING OUT OF SESSIONS AND
THEN THERE WAS AN ACTING
ATTORNEY GENERAL WHITAKER.
AND WHITAKER WAS KIND OF A HACK
AND NOT ABLE TO STAND UP TO
TRUMP AND MAINTAIN THE
INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. YOU HAVE BARR WHO HAS GEORGE
H.W. BUSH ON HIS RESUME.
THAT STANDS FOR MODERATE
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. AND I THINK THERE WAS A DESIRE
ON THE PART OF A LOT OF PEOPLE
TO IMAGINE THAT HE WAS GOING TO
BE A REALLY PROFESSIONAL
INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY GENERAL.
>> AND SO YOU’VE BEEN DOING THIS
REPORTING.
REPORTING. WHY?
WHY? WHY IS THIS WHO HE IS?
>> WELL, I DID THIS REPORTING
PARTLY BECAUSE BEFORE BARR WAS
CHOSEN, HE WROTE TO ME THIS
STRIKING MEMO.
STRIKING MEMO. THIS IS JULY 2018.
AND HE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW, IN
HIS VIEW, THE PRESIDENT ALONE IS
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
AND HE WAS MAKING THAT QUITE
EXTRAORDINARY STATEMENT IN THE
CONTEXT OF CRITICIZING MUELLER’S
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. MUELLER AN OLD AND REALLY GOOD
FRIEND OF HIS.
BARR SAYS AT THE BEGINNING OF
HIS MEMO, I’M IN THE DARK ABOUT
A LOT OF THE FACTS AND THEN HE
JUST GOES AFTER MUELLER.
AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WHY?
IS THIS A JOB AUDITION?
WHAT IS BEHIND THIS?
AND THEN IT TURNS OUT IN THE
REPORTING I DID RECENTLY, WHEN
YOU GO BACK TO BARR’S RECORD IN
THE ’80s AND ’90s, YOU SEE THAT
HE ALREADY HAD THIS QUITE --
QUITE REMARKABLE THEORY OF
EXECUTIVE POWER.
EXECUTIVE POWER. AND ALSO A DEEP FAITH IN
CONSERVATIVE VALUES THAT MAKE
SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP WHO IS
APOINTING SO MANY CONSERVATIVE
JUDGES A VERY APPEALING
PRESIDENT TO SERVE.
>> THAT THEORY, AS YOU LAY IT
OUT, GOES AGAINST ONE OF THE
CONVENTIONAL WISDOMS IN THE
RESISTANCE AMONG SOME PEOPLE WHO
CRITICIZE TRUMP, WHICH PUTS HIM
OUT AS SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T
UNDERSTAND ANYTHING AND IS
OUTSMARTED.
OUTSMARTED. WHAT YOU’RE SUGGESTING IS THAT
DONALD TRUMP, AT LEAST ON THE
ONE VECTOR HE CARES ABOUT, WHICH
IS DOING WHAT HE WANTS,
UNDERSTOOD BILL BARR BETTER THAN
PEOPLE WHO HAD SPENT YEARS
WORKING WITH HIM.
I THINK THAT’S A FASCINATING
INCITE YOU
INCITE YOU INSIGHT YOU HAVE IN YOUR PIECE
AND I THINK IT’S SUPPORTED WITH
AN EXCHANGE WITH SENATOR KAMALA
HARRIS.
HARRIS. AT THE TIME THIS QUESTION WAS
POSE AND MR. BARR DODGED, THERE
WASN’T REPUBLICAN REPORTING THAT
THEY WERE TRYING TO GET A BIDEN
PROBE, RIGHT, THAT WOULD INVOLVE
GIULIANI AND BARR.
AND LOOK AT HIS INABILITY TO SAY
ANYTHING THAT ANY ATTORNEY
GENERAL SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> HAS THE PRESIDENT OR ANYONE
AT THE WHITE HOUSE EVER ASKED OR
SUGGESTED THAT YOU OPEN AN
INVESTIGATION OF ANYONE?
YES, NO PLEASE, SIR.
HAVE THEY SUGGESTED?
>> I WOULDN’T SAY SUGGEST.
>> HINTED?
>> HINTED? >> I DON’T KNOW.
>> INFERRED?
>> INFERRED? YOU DON’T KNOW.
OKAY.
OKAY. >> WHAT’S INTERESTING TO ME
ABOUT THAT GOES BACK TO A QUOTE
THAT YOU PUT UP EARLIER WHEN
BARR WAS REFLECTING ON HIS
SERVICE AS ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR
GEORGE H.W. BUSH.
HE PUT A LOT OF VALUE IN THE
FACT THAT NOBODY IN THE BUSH
WHITE HOUSE HAD ASKED HIM TO
TAKE ANY SPECIFIC STEPS OR ASKED
HIM TO LAUNCH A PARTICULAR
CRIMINAL OR CIVIL INQUIRY, HE
SAID.
SAID. AND SO THAT IT’S QUITE STRIKING
TO SEE THAT NOW HE’S UNWILLING
TO SAY THAT THIS PRESIDENCY IS
FOLLOWING THOSE SAME RULES.
>> DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE
TO CONCLUDE THAT A CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION OF THE MUELLER
PROBE IS AN ABUSE OF THE DOJ?
>> I DON’T THINK WE KNOW THAT
YET.
YET. I WANT TO HAVE FAITH IN JOHN
DURHAM, I LOVE IN CONNECTICUT,
HE’S MY U.S. ATTORNEY.
HE HAS A REPUTATION FOR BEING
VERY CAREFUL IN THESE KIND OF
MATTERS.
MATTERS. HE SPENT FOUR YEARS
INVESTIGATING CHARGES AGAINST
THE GEORGE W. BUSH CIA AND IN
THE END HE BROUGHT NO CHARGES.
SO I WANT TO SEE WHERE THIS
LEADS.
LEADS. BUT, YOU KNOW --
>> PEOPLE WOULD THARG ONE GOES
THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, THAT
WHEN HE GETS A MANDATE -- I’M
NOT TRYING TO GIVE YOU A HARD
TIME, I’M JUST DISCUSSING THE
CONCEPT WITH YOU.
WHEN HE GETS A MANDATE HE MIGHT
BE SOMEONE WHO FIGURES OUT, AS
MANY PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT DO,
WHAT THE END GAME IS LOOKING
FOR.
FOR. AND THAT WAS NOT, AS I
UNDERSTAND, A MUELLER SPECIAL
COUNSEL-TYPE PROBE.
COUNSEL-TYPE PROBE. THAT WAS MAKE SURE WE LOOK INTO
THIS TO MAKE SURE WE GET TO A
PLACE WITH WE DON’T CHARGE THE
CIA.
CIA. THAT WAS THE BUSH PUBLIC
POSITION.
POSITION. >> IT’S TRUE IF YOU’RE THINKING
ABOUT IT IN PURELY PARTISAN
TERMS THAT COULD SEEM MORE
SUSPICION.
SUSPICION. I WANT TO GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT
OF THE DOUBT AND THINKING HE
TOOK HIS INVESTIGATION WHERE THE
EVIDENCE LED.
EVIDENCE LED. I DO WONDER ABOUT THIS INTERVIEW
THAT BARR GAVE IN WHICH HE’S
TRYING TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM
THIS INVESTIGATION BECAUSE HE,
HIMSELF, FLEW TO BOTH BRITAIN
AND ITALY LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE
TO SUPPORT THIS INVESTIGATION.
AND WE KNOW FROM THE ITALIAN
PRIME MINISTER THAT BARR WAS
ASKING HIM QUESTIONS THAT GO
BACK TO A KIND OF UNFOUNDED
CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT DONALD
TRUMP HAS ABOUT SOME ITALIAN
PARTICIPATION IN THE ORIGINS OF
THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION.
THAT ALL SEEMS PRETTY FISHY.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. AT WHAT POINT DO PEOPLE -- YOU
TALK ABOUT THE BENEFIT OF THE
DOUBT OR JUST KEEPING AN OPEN
MIND, WHICH WE ALL TRY TO DO.
AT WHAT POINT DOES THE PUBLIC
LOOK AT THIS AND SAY DONALD
TRUMP HAS PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY
DEMANDED THE ABUSE OF THESE
POWERS, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, TO
GO AFTER HIS RIVALS?
IT SEEMS THAT WHAT’S COMING INTO
FOCUS IS OUTSOURCING SOME OF IT
AND GETTING UKRAINE TO TRY TO DO
IT.
IT. AND THEY ARE ACCELERATING THAT
PROBE.
PROBE. DEMANDING THAT BARR DO IT AND
FOR A WHILE IT HADN’T HAPPENED.
AND NOW THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"
YOUR PAPER, BREAKS THIS
INCREDIBLE STORY THAT THEY ARE
DOING IT.
DOING IT. THAT THE CRIMINAL PREDICATE FOR
INVESTIGATING THE RUSSIA PROBE
IS SAYING THAT SOMEONE LIKE
COMEY OR MUELLER OR SOMEONE ELSE
WITH ENOUGH AUTHORITY TO BE
IMPORTANT TO INVESTIGATE
COMMITTED A FELONY.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. AND WHAT’S TROUBLING ABOUT THAT
IS WE KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE
WERE IN A VERY FRAUGHT MOMENT,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? THESE ARE THE MONTHS SURROUNDING
THE ELECTION.
THE ELECTION. THEY HAVE REPORTS THAT SOMEBODY
WORKING FOR TRUMP IS TALKING TO
THE AUSTRALIAN AMBASSADOR,
AUSTRALIAN EMBASSY ATA SHEAS.
THEY HAD REASON TO BE CONCERNED.
THE NOTION THAT WE WOULD GO BACK
AND SAY THAT THESE SAME
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES AND THEIR
BOSSES COMMITTED A FELONY, THAT
SEEMS TROUBLING.
SEEMS TROUBLING. >> AS YOU SAY, THE INVESTIGATIVE
PREDICATE IS THEY WERE WORRIED
THAT TRUMP THE CANDIDATE, THEN,
BEFORE THEY KNEW MORE, WOULD DO
THE VERY THINGS THAT TRUMP THE
PRESIDENT HAS NOW OPENLY
ADMITTED TO, WELCOMING FOREIGN
COLLUSION, AND THAT MANY
OFFICIALS AROUND HIM ACCUSED HIM
OF DOING A FOREIGN BRIBERY PLOT
THAT MIGHT LEAD TO HIS
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. IF ANYTHING, THEY LOOK MORE
CLAIR VOY YANT THAN FELONIOUS.