>>> WELCOME BACK TO OUR SPECIAL COVERAGE
COVERAGE I’M JOINED NOW BY NEAL KATYAL,
WHO WROTE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL
RULES THAT GOVERNED MUELLER AND
HAS BEEN WRITING ABOUT THIS FOR
SOME TIME, INCLUDING SOMETHING
HE NOTED IN "THE NEW YORK
TIMES.
TIMES. IF INDICTMENT’S OFF THE TABLE,
IMPEACHMENT MUST BE ON IT.
IF IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE
BECAUSE OF NEFARIOUS
CONGRESSIONAL ACTIVITY, THEN
INDICTMENT MUST BE ON IT THAT IS
SOME CONTEXT FOR WHAT WE’RE
SEEING, INCLUDING THIS DEFENSE
FROM THE TRUMP TEAM.
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION NOW SUING
THE HOUSE TO TRY TO PREVENT A
SUBPOENA OF DONALD TRUMP’S
CONFIDENTIAL FINANCIAL RECORDS
JOINING ME NOW AS PART OF OUR
OPENING ARGUMENTS SERIES IS
GENERAL SOLICITOR NEAL KATYAL.
GOOD EVENING
GOOD EVENING >> GOOD EVENING, ARI
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS MOST
IMPORTANT AS THE COUNTRY IS
STILL LEARNING ABOUT WHAT’S IN
THIS REPORT AND TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND WHETHER CONGRESS HAS
A ROLE TO PLAY, OR AS MITCH
McCONNELL SAID TODAY, EVERYONE
SHOULD JUST MOVE ON.
>> I THINK IF FOLKS WERE JUST
LISTENING TO DAVID KELLY, WHO IS
A FABULOUS LAWYER.
THAT WOULD BE LIKE WHY WOULD WE
THINK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT?
BECAUSE MR. KELLY SAID, YOU
KNOW, THAT MUELLER’S
PROSECUTOR’S GUT WAS THERE
WASN’T OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
THAT WAS THERE, THAT THERE WAS
TOO MANY HURDLES AND SO ON
BUT ACTUALLY, MUELLER SAID NONE
OF THAT.
OF THAT. AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING FOR ALL AMERICANS TO
UNDERSTAND IS WHAT MUELLER
ACTUALLY SAID.
ACTUALLY SAID. AND ON THE FIRST TWO PAGES OF
HIS REPORT, WHERE HE HAS TWO
RULES, RULE NUMBER ONE, I
MUELLER CAN’T INDICT A SITTING
PRESIDENT, AND I WON’T TAR AND
FEATHER A SITTING PRESIDENT
BECAUSE I CAN’T INDICT HIM AND
HE WON’T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
DEFEND HIMSELF
DEFEND HIMSELF WHAT THAT MEANS, HE SAYS IS THAT
EVEN IF THE PRESIDENT IS GUILTY
AS SIN, I’M NOT GOING TO TELL
YOU.
YOU. IT’S NOT GOING TO BE IN THE
REPORT
REPORT THAT THAT’S RULE NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, IF THE EVIDENCE
SHOWS THAT TRUMP DID NOTHING
WRONG, I’LL EXONERATE HIM.
I’LL CLEAR HIM
AND MUELLER DOES NOT DO THAT
SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE
THE NEXT STEPS, WE HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND THE MUELLER REPORT IN
ITS CONTEXT.
ITS CONTEXT. AS YOU JUST SAID SO HELPFULLY
FOR THE LAST FEW MINUTES, THE
REPORT ACTUALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE EVIDENCE ON OBSTRUCTION IS
DEVASTATING.
DEVASTATING. I MEAN MUELLER POINTS TO EXAMPLE
AFTER EXAMPLE IN WHICH ALL THE
ELEMENTS OF OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE ARE MET.
CRIMINAL INTENT, AN OBSTRUCTIVE
ACT, A NEXUS TO A PROCEEDING
WHEN YOU ADD ALL THAT TOGETHER,
I THINK I’M WHERE THE
CONGRESSWOMAN WAS JUST A FEW
MINUTES AGO WITH YOU, ARI, WHICH
IS TRUMP IS GOING TO HAVE A DAY
WITH DESTINY
WITH DESTINY THERE ISN’T A WAY TO AVOID IT.
CONGRESS IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. YES, THEY’RE GOING TO HAND-WRING
OVER THE POLITICS OF THE THING
AND MAYBE A LOT OF THEM DON’T
WANT TO DO IT.
THEY’D RATHER TALK ABOUT HEALTH
CARE AND OTHER THINGS, BUT IT’S
PART OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL
DUTY.
DUTY. >> WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU THAT
PEOPLE ARE OPENLY INVOKING
POLITICS
POLITICS IT WAS, AS I JUST NOTED, IT WAS
DEMOCRATS AND OTHERS, MANY
OTHERS WHO CRITICIZED
REPUBLICANS WHO WERE QUIET IN
THE FACE OF CHARLOTTESVILLE OR
OTHER THINGS DONALD TRUMP DID
THAT WERE OBVIOUSLY MORE
IMPORTANT THAN POLITICS OF THE
DAY.
DAY. SHOULD THAT STANDARD APPLY TO
THE CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATIONS
HERE
HERE >> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND PARTICULARLY SO BECAUSE IF
MUELLER HIMSELF HAS SAID I CAN’T
INDICT A SITTING PRESIDENT AND
BARR HAS TAKEN THAT AND CARRIED
IT TO ITS LOGICAL CONCLUSION
SO NOW CONGRESS IS THE BALL
GAME
GAME AND EVERY SCHOLAR WHO SAYS A
SITTING PRESIDENT CAN’T BE
INDICTED COUPLES THAT WITH THE
VIEW THAT THE WAY TO REMEDY A
PRESIDENT WHO IS BREAKING THE
LAW IS TO SEEK THEIR
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. OTHERWISE, TO USE THE ANTIQUATED
TERM BY JEFF SESSION, NO ONE IS
ABOVE THE LAW.
THAT’S NOT SESSION’ TERM
THAT GOES BACK TO 1610 IN DR.
BONHAM’S CASE IN ENGLAND
>> I THOUGHT IT WAS JEFF
SESSIONS’ ORIGINAL
SESSIONS’ ORIGINAL I DIDN’T KNOW HE WAS REMIXING
OLDER STUFF.
OLDER STUFF. LET ME ALSO PLAY FOR YOU, NEAL,
RUDY GIULIANI, WHO SEEMS TO FIND
A WAY TO MUDDY OR COMPLICATE
WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN EASIER
SET OF WEEKEND INTERVIEWS.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> IT DOESN’T MATTER WHETHER
THERE WAS AN UNDERLYING CRIME.
IT’S STILL OBSTRUCTION.
>> WHEN DID MUELLER BECOME GOD
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH
TAKING INFORMATION FROM
RUSSIANS.
RUSSIANS. >> THERE IS NOTHING WRONG?
>> IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT CAME
FROM.
FROM. >> DON McGAHN SAVED HIM.
>> DON McGAHN DIDN’T SAVE HIM.
>> DON McGAHN DIDN’T CARRY OUT
AN ORDER AND SAVED HIM.
>> HE HAD A PERFECT RIGHT TO
FILE MUELLER.
FILE MUELLER. >> OMG
>> OMG I DON’T KNOW EVEN WHERE TO
BEGIN.
BEGIN. LET ME TAKE THERE IS NOTHING
WRONG WITH GETTING INFORMATION
FROM THE RUSSIANS.
THE RUSSIANS ARE OUR MOST
SOPHISTICATED ADVERSARY.
SOPHISTICATED ADVERSARY. TRUMP HAS BEEN DENYING THAT THEY
INTERFERED IN THE ELECTION TIME
AND AGAIN TO THE CONSTERNATION
OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.
THE IDEA THAT THERE IS NOTHING
WRONG, I NEVER THOUGHT IN MY
LIFETIME, ARI, I WOULD HEAR A
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES’
TOP LAWYER SAYING THAT
IT’S ASTOUNDING TO ME.
AND YET FURTHER REASON WHY THE
CONGRESSWOMAN’S RIGHT, CONGRESS
HAS TO TAKE A DEEP LOOK AT THIS
AND ASK WHAT THE HECK IS GOING
ON
ON WHY IS THERE SO MUCH WEIRDNESS
IN THIS ADMINISTRATION ABOUT
RUSSIA
RUSSIA >> YEAH, IT’S A LOT OF IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS.
QUESTIONS. WE’VE BEEN RELYING ON YOUR
EXPERTISE A LOT, AND LUCKILY WE
GET TO COME BACK TO YOU SOON