MUCK.
HOWARD: I WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE
WHEN WORD CAME THAT JEN ZACK
CITY IS RESIGNING AS WHITE HOUSE
PRESS SECRETARY NEXT WEEK.
HER SUCCESSOR WILL BE HER DEPPLY
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHO WAS
INTRODUCED AS THE FIRST BLACK
AND FIRST OPENLY GAY
PRESIDENTIAL PRESS SECRETARY.
AND HEN I SAT DOWN THE WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION’S TOP
SPOKESWOMAN.
JEN PSAKI, WELCOME.
>> THANK YOU.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
HOWARD: PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID THE
OTHER TODAY THAT, QUOTE, I’VE
BEEN SO FOCUSED ON WHATEVER THE
IMMEDIATE EMERGENCY IS THAT WE
HAVEN’T TOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
WHAT WE’VE ACTUALLY DONE.
GIVEN THE HUGE MEDIA MEGAPHONE
THAT THE PRESIDENT AND THE WHITE
HOUSE HAS, ISN’T THAT A BIG
SHORTCOMING?
>> I THINK IT’S ALWAYS GOOD TO
TAKE A STEP BACK AND QUESTION
WHAT YOUR STRATEGY HAS BEEN AND
MAKE CHANGES AS YOU WANT TO, AND
I WOULD SAY THAT WE TALKED A LOT
AT THE END OF LAST YEAR ABOUT
WHAT WE WANTS TO DO -- WANTED TO
DO IN THE NEW YEAR.
AND THE PRESIDENT SAID I WANT TO
DO TWO THINGS, I WANT TO BE
HOLED UP LESS IN THE OVAL
OFFICE, AND I WANT TO BE
TRAVELING OUT IN THE COUNTRY
MORE TALKING TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT WE’VE TRIED
TO DO AND WHAT WE’RE GOING TO
CONTINUE TO DO, AND THAT’S AN
OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT AND
SELL HIS PROGRAMS TO THE PUBLIC.
HOWARD: THE PRESIDENT AND THE
VICE PRESIDENT HAVE BOTH
DENOUNCED THE LEAKED SUPREME
COURT DRAFT, AS YOU KNOW.
YOU TOLD REPORTER IT’S NOT A
POLITICAL ISSUE BECAUSE IT’S
SUPPORTED BY A MAJORITY OF THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC, THAT’S TRUE.
YOU LATER AMENDED THAT TO SAY
IT’S NOT A PARTISAN --
>> RIGHT, EXACTLY.
HOWARD: BUT A PORTION OF THE
PUBLIC IS PASSIONATELY OPPOSED
TO ABORTION, AND IT’S A KEY
POLITICAL BATTLE IN EVERY
SUPREME COURT NOMINATION FIGHT.
HOW CAN YOU SAY IT’S NOT?
>> ACCORDING TO THE FOX NEWS
POLL, NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF THE
PUBLIC DOESN’T WANT ROE V. WADE
TO BE OVERTURNED.
HOWARD: WHAT ABOUT THE OTHERS?
>> IT’S A VAST MAJORITY OF THE
PUBLIC WHO WANT A WOMAN TO BE
ABLE TO MAKE CHOICES WITH HER
DOCTOR ABOUT HER OWN PUBLIC.
WHO-THIRDS OF THE PUBLIC DOESN’T
AGREE ON A LOT, BUT THEY AGREE A
WOMAN’S RIGHTS SHOULD BE
PROTECTED, AND I I THINK THAT’S
PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.
HOWARD: SENATOR BIDEN SAID BACK
IN 1973 THAT HE THOUGHT ROE WENT
TOO FAR.
OBVIOUSLY, HIS VIEWS HAVE
EVOLVED ON THIS SUBJECT, BUT
SHOULDN’T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE
DESPITE THE POLLS THAT THERE’S A
STRONG MINORITY IN THE COUNTRY
THAT FEELS VERY PASSION MATILY
THAT ABORTION IS WRONG --
PASSIONATELY?
>> LOOK, I THINK THE WHOLE POINT
OF ROE IS THE PROTECTION OF
PRIVACY AND A PROTECTION OF THE
RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS TO MAKE
CHOICES ABOUT THEIR OWN BODIES.
AND I WOULD NOTE THAT ROE IS
ALSO, AS YOU KNOW, PRECEDENT FOR
A NUMBER OF OTHER IMPORTANT
SUPREME COURT CASES THAT HAVE
IMPACTED PEOPLE’S LIVES HUGELY
WHETHER IT’S WHO YOU MARRY, YOUR
RIGHT TO HAVE PRIVACY ABOUT
CONTRACEPTION.
MINE -- I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT IS
ON THE PRESIDENT’S MIND, THE
PROTECTION OF HOSE PRIVACY --
THOSE PRIVACIES.
HOWARD: YOU SAID AT A BRIEFING
THAT MANY REPUBLICANS, IN YOUR
VIEW, AND PERHAPS MEDIA
CONSERVATIVES ARE FOCUSING LESS
ON THE IMPACT OF --
[INAUDIBLE]
POTENTIALLY IF IT’S THE FINAL
DECISION AND MORE ON WHO LEAKED
IT.
THE LEAK MYSTERY.
>> YEAH.
HOWARD: BUT WHY DO YOU THINK
THAT IS?
YOU SAID IT’S A DISTRACTION.
THIS IS SOMETHING THE RIGHT HAS
BEEN FIGHTING FOR FOR 50 YEARS.
>> WELL, AT THE SAME TIME,
TWO-THIRDS OF THE PUBLIC DOESN’T
THINK ROE SHOULD BE OVERTURNED.
SO MAYBE THEY WANT TO TALK MORE
ABOUT THE LEAK THAN THEY DO
ABOUT WHETHER A WOMAN SHOULD
HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE CHOICES.
I DON’T KNOW, YOU’D HAVE TO ASK
THEM.
HOWARD: YOU THINK THEY’RE SHYING
AWAY FROM WHAT YOU WOULD SUGGEST
IS AN UNPOPULAR POSITION.
>> IT IS AN UNPOPULAR POSITION
IN THE COUNTRY INCLUDING AMONG
PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT EVEN IDENTIFY
AS DEM.
ACCURATES.
HOWARD: SURE.
PRESIDENT IS PUSHING A $33
BILLION PACKAGE TO WAR IN
UKRAINE.
SHOULDN’T A PACKAGE OF THAT
MAGNITUDE HAVE BEEN PROPOSED
WEEKS, PERHAPS MONTHS AGO BEFORE
THE ATROCITIES AND WAR CRIMES
THAT WE’VE SEEN IN THIS RUSSIAN
INVASION VEGAS AND BEFORE FIERCE
RUSSIAN ASSAULT IS ON THESE
EASTERN PROVINCES?
>> WE’RE STILL SPENDING OUT THE
13.5 BILLION PACKAGE THAT THE
PRESIDENT PUSHED FORWARD JUST A
FEW WEEKS AGO INCLUDING $3.5
BILLION IN SECURITY ASSISTANCE
THAT WE’VE EXWE DIETED TO GET TO
THE FRONT LINES AND HELP THE
UKRAINIANS WIN THE BATTLE OF
KYIV AND CONTINUE TO BATTLE THE
RUSSIANS.
SO THIS WAS A PACKAGE THAT BUILT
ON THAT AND IS GOING TO ALLOW US
TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE AND HUMANITARIAN
ASSISTANCE --
HOWARD: IF IT PASSES THE HILL.
>> AS YOU NOTED, THIS IS A LOT
OF SUPPORT FOR, THERE’S
BIPARTISAN SAN SUPPORT, I WOULD
SAY EVEN, FOR THE EFFORTS, THE
BRAVERY, THE COURAGE OF THE
UKRAINIAN LEADERS AND THE ROLE
THE UNITED STATES IS PLAYING.
THE UNITED STATES’ MILITARY IN
PROVIDING THE ASSISTANCE AND THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE IN MANY WAYS IN
SUPPORTING THE UKRAINIANS AND
STANDING UP AGAINST RUSSIAN
AGGRESSION.
HOWARD: LET ME CIRCLE BACK, TO
COIN A PHRASE, TO THE MESSAGE
QUESTION.
I MOW YOUR STANDARD ANSWER IS
BIDEN TAKES LOTS AND LOTS OF
QUESTIONS, LET’S JUST AGREE TO
DISAGREE THAT THAT’S A GOOD
LEVEL OF MEDIA ACCESS.
WITH THE PRESIDENT HOLDING SO
FEW NEWS CONFERENCES AND DOING
VERY RARELY SIT-DOWN INTERVIEWS,
ISN’T HE SURRENDERING A KEY PART
OF THE BULLY PULPIT?
>> I WOULD SAY THE PRESIDENT
SPEAKS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
NEARLY EVERY DAY DO, SOMETIMES
TWICE A DAY --
HOWARD: NOT TALKING TO
JOURNALISTS.
>> WELL, BUT I THINK OUR
OBJECTIVE AND AND OUR ROLE AND
OUR FOCUS IS SPEAKING TO THE
PUBLIC AND CERTAINLY ENGAGING IN
AND VALUING A FREE PRESS WHICH
IS SOMETHING WE DO AND THE
PRESIDENT DOES NEARLY EVERY DAY
BY TAKING QUESTIONS FROM THE
MEDIA AND SPEAKING OUT ABOUT HOW
WE SHOULD PROTECT THE MEDIA AS
HE DID LAST WEEKEND AT THE WHITE
HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS’ DINNER.
HOWARD: I HAVE COVERED JOE BIDEN
ON AND OFF SINCE THE 1980s
INCLUDING HIS FIRST PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN.
HE LIKES TO TALK.
NOW, NOBODY EXPECTED AS
PRESIDENT HE WOULD COMMENT ON
EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, BUT
DOESN’T HE LEAVE THE VOID BY NOT
BEING IN THE NEWS ALL THE TIME,
NOT DOING THESE TELEVISION OR
PRINT INTERVIEWS THAT IS BEING
FILLED BY REPUBLICANS,
ACTIVISTS, PUNDITS, BLOVIATERS,
AND DOESN’T ABOUT THAT MEAN HE’S
OFTEN REACTING TO THE NEWS AND
NOT DRIVING THE NEWS CYCLE?
>> WELL, WE CAN’T DETERMINE WHAT
THE MEDIA DECIDES TO COVER, OF
COURSE IN THAT’S NOT OUR ROLE,
WE’RE NOT IN CHINA AND RUSSIA
HERE --
HOWARD:
[INAUDIBLE]
>> YES, BUT THE PRESIDENT CAN
MAKE NEWS BY TRAVELING TO A
JAVELIN PLANT AND HIGHLIGHTING
THE INCREDIBLE ROLE WE’RE
PLAYING IN FIGHTING THE WAR IN
UKRAINE BY SUPPORTING WITH
MILITARY ASSISTANCE.
HE CAN MAKE NEWS BY TALKING
ABOUT HOW WE LOWER THE DEFICIT
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG
TIME.
HOWARD: ALL RIGHT.
I CONTINUE TO THINK IT’S A --
[INAUDIBLE]
QUESTIONING FROM A JOURNALIST
WITH FOLLOW LINE UPS -- FOLLOW
UPS, WE ALWAYS WANT MORE
ACCESS --
>> OF COURSE, THAT’S YOUR JOB.
HOWARD: YOU’VE BEEN USING
TOUGHER LANGUAGE AGAINST THE
FORMER GUY.
YOU SAID, FOR INSTANCE, THE
WHITE HOUSE POLICY IS NOT TO
TAKE ADVICE FROM PEOPLE WHO
PRAISED PUTIN.
PRESIDENT BIDEN THE OTHER DAY
CALLED THE MAGA MOVEMENT THE
MOST EXTREME POLITICAL
ORGANIZATION IN AMERICAN
HISTORY.
HAVE YOU AND THE WHITE HOUSE AND
THE PRESIDENT DECIDED THAT WITH
DONALD CAN TRUMP STILL BEING BY
FAR MOST INFLUENTIAL REPUBLICAN,
THAT YOU’VE INCREASING HI GOT TO
TAKE HIM ON? -- THINK YOU’VE GOT
TO TAKE HIM ON?
>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT REFERS
TO HIM AS THE FORMER GUY K HIS
PREDECESSOR.
HE DID YESTERDAY, EARLIER THIS
WEEK WHEN HE MADE THOSE
DEPENDENTS.
IT’S ABOUT THE -- COMMENTS.
IT IS ABOUT THE IMPACT AND THE
HOLD THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP
HAS ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THE
INFLUENCE AND THE IMPACT ON WHAT
THEIR POLICIES ARE.
AND AND HE WANTS THESE AS A
REMINDER OF HOW THESE POLICIES
CAN IMPACT PEOPLE EVERY DAY.
BUT HE’S ALSO NOT GOING TO
HESITATE CALLING OUT POSITIONS
THAT ARE EXTREME AND OUT OF
WHACK WITH THE MAINSTREAM.
WE’RE TAKING ON WHAT HE
REPRESENTS.
WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
CURRENTLY IN ELECTED OFFICE
MAKING POLICIES REPRESENT.
PRESSURE.
HOWARD: WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO HAVE
TREVOR NOAH MAKING FUN OF YOU AT
THE WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT’
DINNER?
>> WHILE I ARE HAVE NOTHING TO
SAY IS ON WHAT I’M DOING IN THE
FUTURE, I WILL BE LEAVING NEXT
WEEK.
THEY’RE ALL STILL TOGETHER AT
ONCE, I’M GOING TO SLEEP, READ A
LOT OF COOKS, WATCH A LOT OF
MOVIES I HAVEN’T SEEN WHAT I
WILL SAY IS YOU COULDN’T HAVE
CONE MY JOB, I DON’T THINK
ANYBODY COULD DO ANY JOB IF THEY
DIDN’T VALUE THE ROLE OF THE
PRESS AND THE MEDIA, AND I DO.
EVEN ON DAYS WHERE WE DISAGREE,
ON DAYS WE DEBATE.
HOWARD: BY THE WAY.
-- I’LL TAKE IT AS AS A YOU WERE
A GOOD START SPORT ABOUT IT.
>> I WAS ASKING PEOPLE, DID I
HAVE A STRANGE LOOK ON MY FACE?
YOU NEVER KNOW.
[LAUGHTER]
HOWARD: AFTER THE BREAK, THE
PRESIDENT’S PRESS SECRETARY ON
CRITICISM OF CONFLICT OF
INTEREST, JOE BIDEN’S USE OF
♪
HOWARD: MORE NOW OF MY
CONVERSATION WITH WHITE HOUSE
PRESS SECRETARY JEN PSAKI.
I KNOW YOU CAN’T DISCUSS YOUR
NEXT JOB FOR ETHICAL REASONS,
BUT IT’S BEEN WIDELY REPORTED.
YOU GOT A LOT OF CRITICISM OVER
POSSIBLE CONFLICTS DURING THIS
PERIOD.
DID THAT BOTH BOTHER YOU?
>> OF COURSE, BECAUSE I’M A
HUMAN BEING.
BUT WHAT I KNOW IS WHAT I TRY TO
DO EVERY DAY, AND I HOLD MYSELF
TO VERY HIGH ETHICAL STANDARDS.
I TOOK STEPS AND HAVE TAKEN
STEPS AS I’VE HAD ANY
DISCUSSIONS WITH ANY FUTURE
EMPLOYER THAT GO OVER AND ABOVE
ANY REQUIREMENT BY GOVERNMENT,
RECUSING MYSELF OF ANY
DISCUSSIONS AS WELL, AND I’M
PROUD OF THAT.
AND I THINK AND HOPE, AND THIS
IS VERY PUBLIC IN A JOB LIKE
MINE, PEOPLE JUDGE ME BY HOW I
ENGAGE AND INTERACT WITH
REPORTERS.
AND I THINK IT’S BEEN CLEAR I’VE
TREATED EVERYBODY THE SAME FROM
THE BEGINNING, AND THAT’S BEEN A
POINT OF PRIDE FOR ME.
HOWARD: SPEAKING OF INTERACTING
WITH REPORTERS, DO YOU
DELIBERATELY TRY TO LOWER THE
TEMPERATURE IN THE BRIEFING
ROOM?
POLITICO JUST HAD A PIECE ABOUT
JOURNALISTS NOW FIND THE WHITE
HOUSE TO BE WORING -- BORING.
ONE CORRESPONDENT WAS VOTED AT
SAYING YOU’RE GOOD AT YOUR JOB
AND JAWING WITH JEN MAKES ME
LOOK LIKE AN A-HOLE.
>> MAKES ME LAUGH.
I’M GLAD HE DIDN’T SAY THE WHOLE
WORD BECAUSE I WANT MY MOTHER TO
BE ABLE TO WATCH THIS INTERVIEW.
WHEN I TALK TO THE PRESIDENT AND
DR. BIND, THE BIGGEST PIECE OF
ADVICE THEY’VE HAD FOR ME IS TO
APPROACH IT FROM THE PRISM OF
WRINGING ED -- BRINGING
CREDIBILITY BACK TO THE JOB, OF
SHOWING RESPECT EVEN PEOPLE WHO
DISAGREE WITH US, WITH HIM, WITH
THE POLICIES OF THE
ADMINISTRATION.
AND, YES, SOME OF THAT IS TAKING
THE TEMPERATURE DOWN IN THE
ROOM.
HOWARD: BUT HAVE YOU BITTEN YOUR
TONGUE ON OCCASION?
>> OF COURSE.
OF COURSE, I’M HUMAN.
I’M AN IRISH LASS IN MY HEART.
SOMETIMES I GET A LITTLE FIERY
MANY THERE.
BUT ON MOST DAYS MY HOPE AND MY
OBJECTIVE IS TO NOT MAKE IT A
GOTCHA MOMENT AND TO MAKE IT A
PLACE WHERE WE ARE PROVIDING
INFORMATION, GETTING ACCURATE
INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC
THROUGH THE PRESS THROUGH TOUGH
QUESTIONS, THROUGH DEBATE.
THAT’S WHAT THAT ROOM IS FOR.
HOWARD: YOU RECENTLY SAID
TWITTER IS VERY WHITE, VERY
LIBERAL, VERY COASTAL --
>> THAT’S A FACT, YES.
HOWARD: YOU’RE RIGHT.
IT DISTORTS REALITY INCLUDING
EVERYBODY, JOURNALISTS.
HAVE YOU EVER ADVISED PRESIDENT
BIDEN THAT HE WEIGH IN ON
SOMETHING LIKE THE WILL SMITH
SLAP OR DAVE CHAPELLE BEING
ATTACK THED ON STAGE JUST TO GET
PEOPLE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT JOE
BIDEN’S PERSONALITY?
>> JOE BIDEN HAS AN ENORMOUS
TWITTER FOLLOWING, AN ENORMOUS
FACEBOOK FOLLOWING, AND IT’S ONE
OF THE ONLY SOCIAL MEDIA
PLATFORMS OR FOLLOWINGS THAT CAN
COMPETE WITH A LOT OF THE
DISINFORMATION OUT THERE --
HOWARD: BUT HIS TWEETS RARELY
MAKE NEWS.
>> THEY REACH THE PUBLIC.
THEY DON’T ALWAYS HAVE TO MAKE
NEWS.
SOMETIMES IT’S ABOUT PROVIDING
ACCURACY --
HOWARD: AGAIN, AIMING FOR THE
PUBLIC VERSUS AIMING FOR THE
MEDIA ECHO CHAMBER.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
AND I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT, YOU
KNOW, PARTICIPANT OF THE ECHO
CHAMBER, AND THIS IS WHY I DON’T
THINK HE WILL EVER BECOME A
PERSON WHO IS TWEETING ALL THE
TIME, IS BECAUSE HE ALWAYS
REMINDS US OF HOW WE CAN’T GET
FOCUSED ON THE CONVERSATION
SOMETIMES WE’RE ALL HAVING WITH
OURSELVES, AND WE’RE ALL GUILTY
OF THIS, RIGHT?
SOMETIMES THE JOURNALISTS IN THE
ROOM ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS ON
TWITTER, TALKING ABOUT THINGS
WE’VE SEEN ON TWITTER AND CABLE,
AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE WHAT
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC REALLY CARES
ABOUT ON ANY PARTICULAR DAY.
HOWARD: SO HE DOESN’T WANT TO BE
DRAWN INTO THE BELTWAY BUBBLE9
CHATTERSOME.
>> YES.
HOWARD: WHITE HOUSE PRESS
SECRETARY, YOU TOOK IT AFTER THE
CAMPAIGN,ST MADE YOU SOMETHING
OF A CELEBRITY.
IS IT HARD TO WALK AWAY FROM
THIS JOB GIVEN THAT YOU ARE A
PRETTY FAMOUS SPOKESPERSON
PERCENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES IN.
>> I MEAN, OF COURSE IT’S HARD.
THIS IS GREATEST JOB I’VE EVER
HAD, MAYBE THAT I’LL EVER HAVE,
I DON’T KNOW.
AND IT HAS SURPASSED MY
EXPECTATIONS IN SO MANY WAYS
MANY THAT I’VE LEARNED SOMETHING
NEW EVERY SINGLE DAY.
A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE
POLICY PEOPLE I WORK WITH AND
THE EXPERTS, BUT A LOT OF IT
ALSO HAS TO DO WITH THE
JOURNALISTS AND THE WAY THEY ASK
QUESTIONS AND HOW --
HOWARD: YOU’RE LEAVING
BECAUSE --
>> I’M LEAVING BECAUSE I HAVE A
4-YEAR-OLD AND A 6-YEAR-OLD.
THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT
PEOPLE IN MY LIFE AND MY
HUSBAND, OF COURSE.
AND I ALWAYS KNEW THAT HAVING,
HAVING WORKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE
BEFORE THAT THIS WAS NOT A JOB I
COULD DO FOREVER.
IT IS A HUGE HONOR TO DO IT.
NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR
LIFE.
BUT I DON’T WANT TO MISS THINGS
WITH MY KIDS, AND I DON’T WANT
TO MISS MOMENTS OR SOCCER
PRACTICES OR BALLET RECITALS OR
ANYTHING.
HOWARD: JEN PSAKI, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US.
>> THANK YOU.
IT WAS A PLEASURE.
HU HU --
HOWARD: TILL TO COME, ELON MUSK
RIPS -- AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH