HEY EVERYBODY WELCOME BACK TO THE LATE SHOW
FOLKS MY NEXT GUEST IS CALIFORNIA
CONGRESSMAN AND AUTHOR WHO SERVED AS CO-CHAIR FOR
BERNIE ( ANDERS' 2020 CAMPAIGN, TAUGHT ECONOMICS AT STANFORD,
AND WORKED IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
HIS NEW BOOK IS CALLED "DIGNITY IN A DIGITAL AGE."
PLEASE WELCOME, CONGRESSMAN RO KHANNA!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: CONGRESSMAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
THE BOOK IS "DIGNITY IN A DIGITAL AGE."
AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN JUST ONE MOMENT.
YOU HAVE BEEN WRITING SINCE YOU WERE IN YOUR TEENS, GETTING
PUBLISHED, TOO, I MIGHT ADD.
HERE IS YOU -- YOU SCHOOLED GEORGE H.W. BUSH IN THE LEADUP
TO THE FIRST GULF WAR.
LET ME READ A COUPLE OF THESE CLIPS HERE THAT WE'RE IN, A
LETTER THAT YOU SENT TO THE BUCS COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA COURIER
TIMES.
>> MY GRANDFATHER SPENT FOUR YEARS IN JAIL ALONGSIDE GANDHI.
YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT WHITE CONSTRUCTION HELPING COLONIALISM
IS DEAD ON AND INFLUENCED ME TO CARE ABOUT PEACE AND HUMAN
RIGHTS AND I WAS OPPOSED TO GOING TO WAR FOR MATERIAL
REASONS.
>> Stephen: YOU'RE 14 YEAR.
YOU SAY WITH ANIMOSITY BETWEEN IRAQ AND THE UNITED STATES
ESCALATING THE CHANCE OF WAR OCCURRING INCREASES AS EACH DAY
PASSES.
YOU GO ON TO SAY THIS IS A WAR THAT WILL BE BROUGHT ON BECAUSE
OF A MATERIALISTIC SOCIETY THAT EVALUATES ONLY ON THE ECONOMIC
ASPECT.
GO ON TO SAY EVERY SOLDIER'S LIFE HAS A PRICELESS MINORITY
VALUE WE SHOULD DEMAND FULL SUPPORT ECONOMICALLY AND
MILITARILY FROM ALL NATIONS AND MUST HAVE NO DOUBTS IN ENGAGING
IN WAR.
THE 14-YEAR-OLD HAS A CLEAR YEA ABOUT ARMED INTERVENTION.
YOU'RE ON ARMED SERVICES RIGHT?
GIVEN THE RUSSIAN BUILDUP ON THE UKRAINIAN BORDER, WE'RE 30 YEARS
LATER FACING ANOTHER POTENTIAL WAR.
WHAT SHOULD THE UNITED STATES STRATEGY BE?
>> FIRST, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION FOR PUTIN TO
INVADE UKRAINE AND WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
SECOND, WE WANT TO EXHAUST ALL DIPLOMATIC OPTIONS, AND I THINK
WE HAVE SOMETIME HOPEFULLY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK PUTIN IS
LIKELY TO GO IN DURING THE OLYMPICS ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF
HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA.
SO THE PRESIDENT MADE IT CLEAR THAT THERE WILL BE TOUGH
FINANCIAL SANCTIONS, BUT HE OUGHT TO HAVE DIPLOMATIC
SOLUTION AND ACTUALLY UKRAINE'S OWN PRESIDENT IS CALLING FOR
CALM.
AND I HOPE HE AND SECRETARY BLINKEN WILL EXHAUST THE
DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS AND I THINK THEY CAN AVOID WAR.
WE HAVE TO AVOID WAR.
( APPLAUSE ) >> I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT.
YOUR DISTRICT IS HOME TO APPLE, INTEL AND YAHOO, AND YOUR NEW
BOOK "DIGNITY IN A DIGITAL AGE" IS ABOUT HOW TO MAKE TECH WORK
FOR ALL OF US.
FIRST QUESTION, AND I NEED THIS -- MEAN THIS SEMISERIOUSLY,
WHAT IS THE INTERNET?
WHAT HAS IT BECOME AS OPPOSED TO WHAT ITS INTENTION WAS?
>> THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS ARE THE HARDEST.
HERE IS HOW I WOULD DEFINE IT -- IT'S A NETWORK OF COMPUTERS
CONNECTED THAT ALLOW US TO COMMUNICATE, SHARE IDEAS IN A
VIRTUAL SPACE.
>> Stephen: I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF IT AS AN AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THESE COMPUTERS AS TO HOW WE WILL COMMUNICATE WITH
EACH OTHER AND THAT THE PROBLEM NOW CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF
PRIVACY IS THAT SOME OF US ARE BEING HARVESTED WITHOUT OUR
KNOWLEDGE.
SO NO COMMUNICATION IS GIVEN TO US ABOUT THE KNOWLEDGE THAT IS
TAKEN FROM US.
THE AGREEMENT IS ONE-SIDED.
>> I COMPLETELY AGREE.
I MEAN, AND IT'S COMPROMISING YOUR FREEDOM.
I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT -- THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING THESE BIG
TECH COMPANIES CAN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO PURCHASE, THEY
MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO THINK, THEY MAY
KNOW WHAT YOU'RE NEXT GOING TO DO BASED UPON YOUR DATA, AND
THEY CAN TAKE YOUR DATA AND GET YOU POLITICAL CANDIDATES THAT
YOU DON'T SUPPORT EVEN.
TIM COOK HAS A COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS WHERE HE SAYS FREEDOM TO
BE HUMAN IS CONTINGENT ON RESPECT FOR PRIVACY.
>> Stephen: IS PRIVACY NECESSARY FOR DIGNITY?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
HOW CAN YOU HAVE A FREEDOM TO THINK, A FREEDOM TO BE FREE, A
FREEDOM TO MAKE MISTAKES IF I'VE HI SINGLE THING YOU'RE DOING IS
BEING COLLECTED.
YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO, THEY COLLECT THIS INFORMATION AND
TARGET THE MOST VULNERABLE.
I MEAN, Q Anon GREW BECAUSE Facebook AND OTHER PLATFORMS
INTEKSLY TARGETED OTHER PEOPLE WITH CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND LET
TO THEIR GROWTH.
INSTAGRAM FOR TEENAGERS, LIKE YOUR WORST EXPERIENCE AT JUNIOR
HIGH MAGNIFIED, AND IT'S LEADING TO TEENAGERS ARE SERIOUS.
TEENAGERS HAVE DEPRESSION, ARE COMMITTING SOUP SIDE, THEY KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEY CAN STOP IT.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE EVERYONE LIKING EVERYTHING AND SHARING
EVERYTHING.
YOU DON'T COME ON THE SHOW AND SPEW MISINFORMATION.
THINK ABOUT IF YOU SPENT YOUR HOUR TELLING LIES TO THE
COUNTRY, WHILE, WHY DON'T YOU DO IT?
IT'S NOT BECAUSE YOU FEAR BEING SUED, IT'S NOT BECAUSE YOU FEAR
POLITICAL REPERCUSSIONS, IT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOME SENSE THAT
BEYOND THE COMEDY AND THE RATINGS YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU
WANT TO DO PUBLIC GOOD.
WHY SHOULD IT BE DIFFERENT FOR SOCIAL MEDIA?
MAYBE YOU DON'T.
>> Stephen: I'M CHECKING WITH MY PRODUCER, THAT IS WHY WE DO
IT.
( APPLAUSE ) ( LAUGHTER )
YOU WRITE "THE DIRTY SECRET IN SILICON VALLEY IS CONGRESS WILL
HOLD A HEARING BUT NOTHING CHANGES."
YOU WANT TO CREATE AN INTERNET BILL OF RIGHTS.
WHAT ARE THE TOP THREE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE IN THE BILL TO
MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
>> THE BIGGEST THING IS BEFORE SOMEONE CAN COLLECT YOUR DATA,
YOU NEED TO SAY, YES, YOU CAN TAKE THE DATA.
>> Stephen: SO THE DEFAULT IS PRIVACY AND WE HAVE TO OPT IN.
>> EXACTLY BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE DEFAULT IS THEY GET YOUR DATA
AND YOU HAVE TO CLICK EVERYTHING TO FIGURE OUT HOW NOT TO GIVE
THEM YOUR DATA.
NO ONE DOES THAT.
AND THE USER SERVICE AGREEMENTS, HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY READ
THE USER SERVICE AGREEMENT?
>> Stephen: I READ THE PART THAT SAYS I AGREE.
>> EXACTLY.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
AND THEY MANIPULATE IT.
THEY HAVE DARK PATTERNS.
THEY PUT THE BOX BIGGER WITH THE RIGHT COLOR SO YOU CLICK ON IT.
IT'S A VERY SOPHISTICATED THING, BUT THE VERY BASIC IS NO DATA
SHOULD GO WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT.
THE SECOND PART IS YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING TO YOUR
DATA.
AND RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NO WAY OF KNOWING.
IF WE HAD KNOWN CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICA PROBABLY WOULD NOT
HAVE HAPPENED BECAUSE NONPROFITS WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT, ASKED
ABOUT IT AND NOT ALLOWED DONALD TRUMP OR OTHER CANDIDATES TO USE
DATA.
BUT IT'S OFFENSIVE THAT PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T SUPPORT A CANDIDATE',
YOUR INFORMATION IS USED AGAINST YOUR WILL TO SUPPORT A CANDIDATE
YOU DON'T SUPPORT.
>> Stephen: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
THE BOOK IS "DIGNITY IN A DIGITAL AGE."
IT'S AVAILABLE STARTING TOMORROW.
CONGRESSMAN RO KHANNA, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.