>>> THIS NEW TRUMP TELL-ALL BOOK
FROM HIS OWN NIECE IS ROILING
THE WHITE HOUSE AND WASHINGTON,
D.C. AND RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT
WHETHER IT COULD EVEN AFFECT HIS
RE-ELECTION BID.
THERE’S A LOT OF STUFF IN THE
BOOK YOU COULD READ OUT LOUD AND
SIT BACK WITH.
TOM END WE’LL SHOW YOU RACHEL
MADDOW WHO DID JUST THAT LAST
NIGHT.
>> IT ALL STARTED IN 1977 WITH A
THREE PACK OF BLOOMIES UNDERWEAR
MEANING BLOOMINGDALE’S
UNDERWEAR.
RETAIL $12.
MY VERY FIRST CHRISTMAS PRESENT
FROM DONALD AND HIS NEW WIFE
IVANA.
I BARELY EVEN KNEW WHO THE F SHE
WAS, HONESTLY.
BUT THEN SHE GAVE A GREAT SPEECH
IN GEORGIA SUPPORTING ME.
MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, I DIDN’T
EVEN KNOW WHO THE F SHE WAS,
HONESTLY.
HE TELLS MRS. TRUMP, MELANIA,
THAT HIS NIECE HAD A TERRIBLE
DRUG PROBLEM.
SHE SAID IN THE MOMENT.
WHOA, I’VE NEVER DONE DRUGS IN
MY WHOLE LIFE.
HE SLID ME A LOOK AND SMILED.
HE WAS EMBELLISHING THE STORY
FOR EFFECT AND HE KNEW THAT I
KNEW IT.
>> DONALD TRUMP MAY NOT BE ALL
THAT INTO BOOKS BUT HE KNOWS HOW
TO USE THEM.
JOINING ME NOW, SOMEONE WHO
CO-AUTHORED A BOOK WITH HIM, ART
OF THE ZEILE DEAL.
A FRIEND OF THE SHOW, TONY
SCHWARTZ, AND SOMEONE WHO HAS
GONE ON TO BE CRITICAL OF DONALD
TRUMP.
NICE TO SEE YOU.
>> NICE TO SEE YOU.
>> I LOOK AT THIS AND I SEE
ANOTHER BOOK WHICH DONALD TRUMP
UNDERSTANDS AS POTENTIALLY
PIVOTAL.
YOU GUYS WROTE A BOOK TOGETHER
AND HE RODE IT TO THE TOP OF THE
CHARTS AND TURNED IT INTO A
BRAND.
I’M CURIOUS, GIVEN ALL THAT,
YOUR VIEWS ON THIS.
>> I’M VERY INTERESTED IN THE
PARALLELS.
SHE, TOO, WAS A GHOST WRITER.
SHE WAS THE PERSON WHO WAS
SUPPOSED TO WRITE THE BOOK, THE
SECOND BOOK AFTER I TURNED DOWN
THAT OPPORTUNITY.
AND SHE FOUND THAT SHE COULDN’T
GET ANYTHING FROM HIM BECAUSE
THERE WAS NOT ANYTHING THAT HE
HAD TO GIVE.
SO SHE DIDN’T END UP DOING IT.
AND NOW SHE IS 30 YEARS LATER,
WRITING WHAT I THINK IS, I SEE
THIS AS ONE MORE TIPPING POINT
IN THE DESCENT OF DONALD TRUMP,
AND I DO THINK IT WILL HAVE A
BIG IMPACT.
NOT JUST BECAUSE IT IS LIKE A
FAMILY MEMBER WHO OBSERVED IT UP
CLOSE BUT BECAUSE SHE DOES BRING
THE PSYCHOLOGIST PERSPECTIVE TO
THIS.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POWER OF
THIS, THERE ARE MANY WAYS WE GET
INFORMATION NOW.
AND YET, BIG BOOK FROM THE RIGHT
PERSON WITH THE RIGHT INSIGHTS
AND ACCESS, IT STILL CAN MOVE
THE NEEDLE.
>> YEAH.
I THINK WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS AN
ACCUMULATION OF NEEDLE MOVERS,
IN TERMS OF ONE DISASTER FOR
TRUMP AFTER ANOTHER, AND THERE
IS A TIPPING POINT, AND I THINK
AGAIN, THAT WE PROBABLY REACHED
IT.
I THINK THE REALLY INTERESTING
THING THAT MARY TRUMP’S BOOK
BRINGS UP, NOT SO MUCH ITS
REVELATIONS.
WE KNOW ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF
ALREADY.
IT IS JUST MORE OF IT.
IT IS THE INSIGHT INTO HIS
CHILDHOOD.
AND ONE OF THE GREAT TRAGEDIES
IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE
INATTENTION TO THE SHAPING
INFLUENCES IN OUR LIFE.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE
ADVERSE CHILD EXPERIENCE STUDY.
THE ACE STUDY, WHICH SHOWS THE
VAST PERCENTAGE OF AMERICANS, OF
PEOPLE, HAVE HAD TRAUMATIZING
EXPERIENCES.
IT IS NOT THE EXCEPTION.
IT IS MUCH MORE THE RULE.
AND IF WE DON’T PAY ATTENTION TO
THE SHAPING INFLUENCES IN
PEOPLE’S LIFE, IN TRUMP’S CASE,
AN ABUSIVE FATHER AND A
NEGLECTFUL MOTHER, WE’RE GOING
TO END UP HAVING VERY DISTURBED
HUMAN BEINGS ACTING OUT IN THE
WAYS THAT TRUMP HAS.
ADD THE MONEY INTO THAT AND NOW
HE HAS A PLATFORM AND WE’RE ALL
SUFFERING FROM IT.
>> YEAH.
AND TONY, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
COMES UP IN THE BOOK THAT YOU
DID CO-AUTHOR WITH HIM.
MAYBE PROTEST TOO.
BUT I’LL READ WITH REGARD TO
THIS RELATIONSHIP.
THE NIECE’S BOOK IS ARGUING, AS
YOU JUST ALLUDED TO, THAT DONALD
TRUMP WAS STUNTED BY THE
OVERBEARING FATHER FIGURE, THAT
HE FOUND A WAY TO COLLABORATE
WITH HIS FATHER WHILE OTHERS
SUFFERED UNDER HIM.
HERE IT SAYS IN THAT BOOK, YOUR
BOOK, I WAS NEVER INTIMIDATED BY
MY FATHER THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE
WERE.
WE HAD A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS
ALMOST BUSINESS LIKE.
I SOMETIMES WONDER IF WE HAD
GOTTEN ALONG SO WELL IF I HAD
NOT BEEN AS BUSINESS ORIENTED AS
I AM.
WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
>> IT’S A LIE.
IT’S NOT TRUE.
HE WAS TOTALLY INTIMIDATED BY
HIS FATHER.
HE WAS TERRIFIED OF HIS FATHER.
AND HE LIVED TO PLEASE HIS
FATHER AS HIS OWN FIVE CHILDREN
DO.
PARTICULARLY HIS THREE FIRST
CHILDREN.
I THINK WHAT THAT IS TELLING US
IS THAT THIS IS THE STORY HE
BUILT AROUND HOW HE MANAGED THE
TERRIBLE IMPACT THAT HIS FATHER
HAD ON HIM.
AND LISTEN, IT’S NO EXCUSE.
TRUMP’S BEHAVIOR IS NOT ACCUSED
BY THE FACT THAT HE WAS
TRAUMATIZED BY HIS PARENTS.
I BELIEVE HE WAS.
AND HE IS STILL SUB TO THE
SOCIAL CONTRACT.
HE STILL HAS AN OBLIGATION TO BE
PART OF THE COMMENTS.
HE IS BE.
IT IS TRUE THAT IF WE HAD A
WORLD IN WHICH WE 6TOOK SERIOUSL
THE KINDS OF DEPRIVATIONS AND
COSTS OF CHILDREN WHO ARE SO
DEFENSELESS WHEN THEY’RE YOUNG
INCUR BECAUSE PARENTS SOMETIMES
ARE THEMSELVES SO SCREWED UP,
AND SOMETIMES JUST ARE BUSY
DOING THEIR OWN THING, AND
MEANWHILE, THE CHILD SUFFERS
FROM SOME KIND OF LACK OF
ATTENTION.
WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO
THIS.
LISTEN, WHEN I WROTE SOME WEEKS
AGO, THE PSYCHOPATH IN CHIEF, A
PSYCHOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE ON
TRUMP, I WROTE IT ON MEDIUM.
I SENT IT TO SIX OR SEVEN MAIN
STREAM MEDIA PUBLICATIONS.
ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT MEDIA
MAGAZINES IN THE COUNTRY, THE
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, WROTE BACK TO
ME AND SAID, WE DON’T DO THIS
KIND OF PIECE.
I.E., WE IGNORE THE WHOLE
INTERIOR OF HUMAN BEINGS.
AND I COULDN’T GET THAT PIECE
PUBLISHED.
SO I PUBLISHED IT MYSELF.
IT GOT A HALF A MILLION VIEWS.
IT SHOWS THAT YOU PEOPLE DO WANT
TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON
INSIDE THEM.
BECAUSE YOU CAN’T CHANGE WHAT
YOU DON’T NOTICE.
>> RIGHT.
IT’S A CHALLENGE.
I UNDERSTAND THE JOURNALISTIC
BAR OF TRYING TO STICK TO
EVIDENCE.
WHEN YOU GO INTERIOR, IT IS
HARDER.
TO YOUR POINT, IT IS VERY
RELEVANT TO EVERYONE’S LIVED
LIES.
I’M OUT OF TIME BUT I’LL SAY AS
A LONG TIME INTERVIEWER AND BEAT
FRIEND OF YOURS, IT REALLY
CAPTURES THE UNDERSTATE ENERGY
YOU BRING TO SO MUCH ANALYSIS.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I COME WITH A
VERY RELAXED ATTITUDE TOWARD ALL
THIS.
>> WE HAVE TO LAUGH AT
OURSELVES.
I KNOW WHEN YOU’RE UPSET AND