ARMS, DOORS TO UKRAINIAN
REFUGEES.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>>> AND JOINING US NOW
REPUBLICAN SENATOR, MARCO RUBIO
OF FLORIDA, WHO IS THE VICE
CHAIRMAN OF THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE AND SENIOR MEMBER OF
THE FOREIGN RELGDSATIONS COMMITT
I WANTED TO READ SOMETHING FROM
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND
CONFIRMED BY THE WHITE HOUSE.
THAT HE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN HAVE
BEEN ON THE PHONE, TALKING THIS
MORNING.
ZELENSKYY TWEET IS JUST HAD A
CONVERSATION WITH POTUS, THE
AMERICAN LEADERSHIP ON
ANTIRUSSIAN SANCTIONS AND
DEFENSE ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE
WAS DISCUSSED.
WE MUST STOP THE AGGRESSOR AS
SOON AS POSSIBLE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
SO, ARE WE DOING ENOUGH?
WHAT MORE DO WE NEED DO?
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE FROM THE
U.S.?
>> I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IN
THE LAST WEEK IS UNPRECEDENTED.
THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY IS HEADED
TOWARDS COLLAPSE.
THE RUBLE MOST CERTAINLY IS.
I THINK HE THOUGHT HE WOULD GET
HARD BUT NOT THIS HARD.
I THINK THE FIRST IS -- AND YOU
POINTED TO IT BEFORE I CAME ON
THE AIR -- THE UNIQUE ASPECTS OF
THE REFUGEE CRISIS.
THAT IS LARGELY WEM SDWHN
ELDERLY AND YOUNG CHILDREN,
WHOSE FATHERS AND HUSBANDS ARE
STILL IN UKRAINE AND MAY MAKE IT
BACK, MAY NOT.
WHO KNOWS WHEN THEY'LL BE
REUNITED.
THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT, A WEEK
AGO, WERE LIVING NORMAL LIVES,
GOING TO WORK, AND A WEEK LATER
FIND THEMSELVES IN A TENT CITY.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO KEEP
AN EYE ON AND PROVIDE ALL THE
ASSISTANCE WE CAN TO HELP THEM
IN THE SHORT TERM.
LOOK, PUTIN CAN'T WIN.
HE'S HEADED TO ONE OF TWO
DIRECTIONS.
A VERY COSTLY MILITARY VICTORY
OR A QUAGMIRE, WHICH HIS
MILITARY CAN'T ACHIEVE VICTORY.
EVIL AN COSTLY MILITARY VICTORY,
HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO STAY
FOREVER AND FACE AN INSURGENCY.
HE'S FIGHTING 40 SOMETHING
MILLION PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT
HIS FORCES THERE.
HE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO INSTALL A
PUPPET GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE
UKRAINIANS WILL OVERTHROW THEM
AND KILL THOSE PEOPLE.
I THINK WE HAVE TO START
THINKING THROUGH THE PERMIATIONS
OF THIS.
THERE HAS TO BE A REAL
LEGITIMATE UKRAINIAN STATE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY WE CAN'T
SUPPORT THEM EVEN IF IT'S AN
INSURGENCY.
>> WHAT MORE CAN WE DO WITHOUT
PUTTING BOOTS ON THE GROUND,
WHICH WOULD, AS THE PRESIDENT
HAS SAID, AND AS NATO HAS SAID,
THIS WOULD BE AN ARTICLE FIVE
ISSUE AND UKRAINE IS NOT A
MEMBER OF NATO AND IT RAISES ALL
KINDS OF PROBLEMS.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU THINK
THAT'S THE RIGHT POLICY BUT THAT
IS THE POLICY.
>> LOOKING WITH AN ARMED
ENGAGEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED
STATES AND ANY NATO COUNTRY AND
RUSSIA IS WORLD WAR III.
AND FRANKLY, THE UKRAINIANS ARE
NOT ASKING FOR AMERICAN TROOPS.
THEY'RE ASKING THAT WE CONTINUE
TO SUPPLY AND EQUIP THEM.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS
FIGHT IS OVER.
I THINK THE WILL TO FIGHT, WHICH
IS ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS TO
MEASURE, IS EXTRAORDINARY ON THE
UKRAINIAN SIDE.
THERE ARE REAL AND GROWING
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MORALE AND
THE TECHNICAL CAPABILITY OF THE
RUSSIAN FORCES.
THAT SAID, IF IN FACT PUTIN IS
ABLE TO ACHIEVE, FOR EXAMPLE, A
MILITARY VICTORY, THAT DOESN'T
MEAN HE'S WON.
BECAUSE HE'LL FACE UKRAINIANS
THAT WILL FIGHT HIM AND CARRY
THAT OUT.
THERE WILL BE A LEGITIMATE
UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT NO MATTER
WHAT HAPPENS MILITARILY ON THE
GROUND.
I STILL THINK THERE'S OPEN
QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW LONG AND
COSTLY THIS IS GOING TO BE FROM
A MILITARY STANDPOINT IN
UKRAINE.
I THINK THE COSTLY WAR SITUATION
IS PROBABLY HIS BEST CASE
SCENARIO AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD
ONE.
>> PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS BEEN
ISOLATED.
OBVIOUSLY HE'S NOT TRAVELLED,
OTHER THAN BEIJING, UNDER COVID.
WE'VE SEEN THE LONG TABLES.
HOW HE'S ONLY TALKING TO A
COUPLE OF PEOPLE, VERY FEW IF
THAT.
NOT TAKING ADVICE.
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT HIS
MENTAL HEALTH, STATE OF MIND?
ONE OF YOUR TWEETS WAS I WISH I
COULD SAY MORE FOR NOW.
I CAN SAY IT'S OBVIOUS TO MANY
THAT SOMETHING IS OFF WITH
PUTIN.
>> I'LL TELL YOU WHAT'S OFF WITH
HIM IS HE'S ALMOST 70 IN A
COUNTRY WHERE THE AVERAGE MAN
MAKES IT TO 72.
HE SEES HIS LEGACY AS BEING THE
MAN WHO BROUGHT RUSSIA OUT OF
THE 90s AND TO GREAT GLOBAL
POWER STATUS, RESTORED GREATER
RUSSIA.
UKRAINE IS A BIG PART OF IT.
I THOUGHT HE VIEWED THIS AS HIS
LAST OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT.
I THINK THIS IS A PERSON WHO
CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY THAN HE
DID FIVE OR TEN YEARS AGO.
THIS A MAN WHO'S PRIDED HIMSELF
ON EMOTIONAL CONTROL AND SHOWED
STRONG FLASHES OF ANGER PARENT
FOR EVERYONE TO SEE.
THE ISOLATION PIECE IS
IMPORTANT.
NOT JUST PHYSICAL ISOLATION.
THIS IS NOT A MAN WHOSE
UNDERLINGS BRING HIM THE TRUTH
OR BAD NEWS.
IT'S NIGH SENSE THAT HE THOUGHT
HE WOULD BE GREETED IN PARTS OF
UKRAINE AS A LIBERATOR.
AND THE UKRAINIAN RESISTANCE
WOULD COLLAPSE AND REZELENSKYY
WOULD FLEE AND HE WOULD BE IN
CONTROL OF KYIV.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD FALL
INTO THE TRAP OF ASSUMING THAT
PUTIN TODAY WOULD MAKE THE SAME
DECISION HE WOULD HAVE MADE FIVE
OR TEN OR FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THINKING
THAT WAY WERE THE ONES SAYING
THERE'S NO WAY HE'S GOING TO
INVADE.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE IF HE
THOUGHT LIKE AN AMERICAN.
BUT HE DOESN'T.
HE WANTS TO BE A GREAT HISTORIC
FIGURE LIKE CATHERINE THE GREAT
IN RUSSIAN LORE.
AND THAT POSES DANGERS OF
ESCALATION.
>> ARE YOU CONCERNED WHEN HE
TWICE RAISED THE NUCLEAR THREAT?
>> FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S THE
MILITARY DOCTRINE OF RUSSIA THAT
BASICALLY SAYS IN ANY CONFLICT
OF NATO, IF THEY BEGIN TO LOSE,
THEY WOULD USE BATTLE FIELD
NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO FORCE
EVERYONE TO THE NEGOTIATING
TABLE.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT
THAT HIS COUNTRY'S DEEPLY
ISOLATED NOW.
THEIR ECONOMY'S IN FREE FALL,
SUFFERING HUMILIATIONS ON THE
BADDAL FIELD.
INSTEAD OF LOOKING LIKE A GREAT
POWER, THEY LOOK INCOMPETENT IN
MANY WAYS.
WHAT ARE HIS TOOLS AVAILABLE TO
GIVE HIMSELF BARGAINING
LEVERAGE?
HE CAN EITHER ESCALATE MILITARY
INTO SOMETHING HORRIFYING,
THREATEN OR CARRY OUT CYBER
ATTACKS AND HE CAN THREATEN TO
USE BATTLE FIELD NUCLEAR
WEAPONS.
I THINK THAT'S THE LEAST LIKELY
OPTION OF THE THREE.
BUT THAT'S THEIR DOCTRINE.
AND I THINK HE WAS REMINDING US
OF THAT.
>> DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK HE
WOULD USE BATTLE FIELD NUCLEAR
WEAPONS?
>> I THINK NO MATTER WHAT HIS
STATE OF MIND IS, I THINK HE
UNDERSTANDS IF HE WERE TO USE
TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THE
BATTLEFIELD, THAT WOULD TRIGGER
THE THIRD WORLD WAR AND HE
WOULDN'T GO DOWN AS A HISTORIC
FIGURE BECAUSE THERE WOULDN'T BE
ANYONE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT.
BUT YOU WORRY WHEN SOMEONE
BEGINS TO RUN OUT OF ESCALATION
OPTIONS AND LEFT WITH THINGS
LIKE ATTACK SPACE AND CYBER,
THAT THESE THINGS BEGIN TO
ESCALATE.
THAT'S THE POINT.
ESCALATION AT ANY KIND -- WHAT
IF THE RUSSIAN NAVY DECIDES TO
IGNORE THAT ORDER AND PROCEED
THROUGH AND THEY'RE CONFRONTED
BY NATO SHIPS?
NOW YOU HAVE A NATO CONFLICT.
THERE'S A REAL DANGER IN THIS.
THAT JUST MEANS WE NEED TO BE
AWARE THERE ARE DANGERS OF
ESCALATION BEING
UNDERAPPRECIATED BY SOME.
>> SENATOR RUBIO, THANK YOU SO