G'day A.J. Mahari here with a response to another comment on the live stream i
did on uh july hang on
no not july it was uh august 3rd okay 20 20. so
it's not quite a day ago as i'm filming this recording this but
it will be a day ago soon enough so now i just have to find a comment again
sorry so this video a person asks
this is a person's comment
i recognize i've suffered an unhealthy bond
with a person with bpd traits i also know this is familiar a familiar
pattern since my mother had similar traits so
whether whether these two people in this
person's life had traits um or actually had bpd maybe they don't
know hard to say so but it's interesting that
as this commenter points out for those of you out there to think
about many people do have a parent with bpd or npd traits or that
could be diagnosed with either if they haven't been
and then you end up with somebody a lot like your mom or dad when you're
codependent as well and uh it's not accidental
it's what happens in your unconscious mind
from the wounded inner child inside of you
and so the per the commenters that i also know this is a
familiar oh sort of at that part with traits of the mother understanding this
helps me distance myself from and manage the discomfort from from
the ex and manage the discomfort
and the question that the commenter had is
whether the inevitable hoover which i've experienced
and when they promise you know where they promise everything will be better
and fine by the way first and foremost it's not true they can't change that
quickly even if they intend to they want to go get therapy and
treatment not going to happen in a month two months six months half a year year
two years and none so when they come back with
that hoover and they're seemingly a little bit like
or more like the person that you met in the idealization mirroring and their
people-pleasing phase it's just not so but many people have to go through that
before they realize that unfortunately
and so the question really in the comment is so
when the ex-hoovers promising everything will be better and
wanting to come back for all the reasons of course that they still need to seek
identity through you and all those types of things i've talked about on this
channel and more and they promise everything
will be okay the meat of the question is this
is this hoovering is this wanting to come back or you need to come back or
whatever the case uh an axe with bpd um
are they suffering the same unhealthy bond
uh or or whether what they're doing is driven
by different emotional drives well good question
because in the unhealthy bonds bond that happens
in a relationship for a person with codependency and the person with bpd
the person with codependency and of course not all quarter parents are the
same all people bp are the same but the person with codependency has
some or more ability to be somewhat intimate
emotionally of course everyone has the ability to you know otherwise
likely but um to be somewhat emotionally intimate
to which can be a struggle for some people with codependency on
you know to varying degrees they also have
most codependents have an ability to attach
you know and to get into the unhealthy bondedness of it all which means
your attachment is insecure and the love there all the way around right
and the dynamic of quote love unquote isn't really healthy love
but so when people bpd hoover when they come back
if they come back or they come back in hoover and they always promise it's
going to be better and they might even really apologize and
they might even really mean it but the point is
they can't do it without therapy they don't just change like that they just
don't so are they coming are they coming back
hoovering and doing that and or are you getting into on and off relationship
situations with them because they have the same unhealthy bond that
you do well they have a part of that is the best way
i can explain it because when that unhealthy bond happens it does
happen between to a degree the person with codependency
and the person with borderline personality
but being as it's an unhealthy bond remember that that is not the formation
of any kind of secure or healthy attachment
so i still stand by what i've said in many other videos here
people with bpd do not attach they do not know how to love until
unless significant treatment which means for in
relationships especially significant other ones but for a lot of people with
bpd even means for friendships to really
truly be mutual and reciprocal in them to really attach and to really be able
to have love whether that's friendship love or
significant other love or any relationship type quote love unquote
people with bpd need years of significant
treatment to find the actual lost cell so they're coming back and hovering you
and or you're in the on and off position of relationship because
you're choosing that too but they're coming back right they want to try again
and again and maybe so do many people with
codependency so when that's happening it's being
emotionally driven in people especially untreated but even
like not well enough treated or even if treated
for a few years but haven't got to the deeper work
it's not for the same it's not what drives them emotionally
is not the same thing as what drives codependents emotionally so
and then one can say there's a bit of an overlap there but it's not the same
thing so an answer to the commoner's question
no people with bp are not coming back
i mean in a way they are sort of coming back because of the unhealthy bond
but they never bond that's what's unhealthy about it and actually
many people's codependency never really bond either some do
some have black a better way to put less codependency
and more ability to it's still not going to be secure attachment though
but so people with bpd what's driving them emotionally
often unbeknownst to them they don't know this consciously
is they can't you know they can't be alone codependent struggle with that too
many codependents their their emotional drive to come back
to huber etc is because you are still holding you are
still their object other and that's subconscious on their
part too and you are still that object other parent representation
and you are still holding holding that space for them when they're out there
they feel abandoned they they're alone they don't know how to cope
even if they meet somebody and that doesn't work out
it's not like every time somebody bp goes to the next person that person
automatically becomes object other because many people will remain in the
object of their status subconsciously or unconsciously
with a person with bpd so what's really driving them to come back
first of all it's repetition cycles of pursuit
of an emotionally unavailable or worse parent
right which in a different kind of language it can be the same thing for
the codependent it's pursuit of needs not met in childhood which you
need to know more about and that's why you need to
not you know engage a hoover you need to get into your own treatment
so the drivers for people with bp hoovering
are initially this not initially essentially the same
as when they first idealize you mirror you and do that people-pleasing
thing in the beginning that is not quote love unquote bombing they are coming
back because you are object other they're seeking relief from what they're
feeling and they want to get it from you and
through you and they're still now they're out there floating around
without that sense of identity again and they want to come back and merge
with you to get the sense of identity back
from you through you so they don't this is
unconscious but it is the emotional driver
of their repetition compulsion cycles of relating and then the relationship
ruptures that pattern and then and then trying
again and trying because that's what they had to do in
very young childhood going forth in pursuit of the
unavailable parent or the cluster b parent so even though
there's this unhealthy bond that's talked about many
different words for it that's not the emotional driver
exactly of people of bpd could it amount to the same thing
if the co-dependent allows the person you know engages
in being hubert and trying again which never works and the cycles of splitting
speed up etc which i have many videos on just
take a look around if you haven't seen them yet please be sure to check my
community tab where i put up older videos for people to find easier
so even if it is a little bit of overlap similarity
between the codependent and the person with bpd because this unhealthy bond
this unhealthy bit not going to make it any healthier not
going to make it a real attachment because the fact that
it's an unhealthy bond means that the attachment
is very unhealthy too so i hope that helps people because people
with bp are emotionally their emotional drivers are deep within
their unconscious and they are repetition compulsive
compulsion cycles based on their response to their adverse
childhood experience and co-dependents are involved in this
based on their own adverse childhood experience it isn't to the depth of
those with bpd and or you have a more resilient
temperament so all that can happen when they come back
they don't have the exact same reason they might be looking for that sense of
achieving the same thing that was there before but that can never be replicated
because that idealization mirroring and the people-pleasing aspect of the
beginning and who they showed you that you thought they were
they can't really replicate that again could they replicate it with somebody
new maybe but it's only going to be the same cycle
so when people bp hoover and promise it's all going to be better
their emotional drivers are not the same as the emotional drivers of people's
codependency so people with codependency are
emotionally driven because you really think that person loved you
you really think you love that person and in some cases you really did and for
some codependents it's not really you don't even get near that but the love is
love of rescue for codependence and the love
is love that is trying to seek in the
codependent unhealthy relational patterns
what you didn't get from a parent even though you're seeking is by over giving
a lot caretaking etc so there's overlap
but it's not the same and if you engage a hoover and you try again and you're in
an off on off again cycle with somebody with
bpd the same things are going to happen over
and over again in their repetition compulsions and your reactions and your
being caused pain and them trying to deal with their
pain from the past and so you're just going to re-get
together in the unhealthy bonded nature of it all
and yet that's not what's driving the person with bpd
you are still their object other if they're still hovering around you
and are making attempts to get back and if you engage them
and you let them come back invariably without fail
their splitting cycles were will speed up
you'll have less quote good time unquote together and more really not good time
and painful time and it would just lead to the same
rupture and however the relationship ended in
the first place and this will happen over and over and over
if you allow it to if you engage them and i would really highly recommend you
don't so this unhealthy fit this unhealthy bond is not driven
emotionally for the people codependency for the same
reason that it's driven but those with bpd and yet there's some
overlap in the middle so hope that helps and from all my
experience 30 years working with clients all the comments on my channel not that
they all address the same thing and the videos i've done on this before
my own personal lived experience in which i never really hovered anybody or
tried to do that again when you've been damaged and a
relationship has ended and you're in a world of hurt
it can feel compelling to want them back but it will just be another painful
mistake on your road to where you actually need to go so i
hope that helps somebody today and take care