- Max Lucado, thanks for being here.
- Oh, absolutely. I'm honored. Thank you.
- You're one of my favorite people.
And I was telling you this before the interview,
but even your kids book, "You Are Special,"
is like, I tell everyone about it.
- Well, thank you very much.
- Well, this episode specifically,
we're talking about the American dream.
And so, I'm curious, from you,
you talk a lot about happiness,
that's what your new book's about.
But do you think that happiness has changed, over the past
even just 30 years, when you look at American culture?
- I think the illusion of happiness has.
I think that what we're dealing with now,
that's one of the characteristics of our unique day and age,
is this proliferation of advertisement.
This subliminal messaging that comes at us from all angles.
And 60 years ago, it was the television generation.
Thirty years ago, it was the internet generation.
Today, it's the social media generation,
plus the other two, right?
And so,
just the increased number of messages
that come our way, telling us "We will be happy when . . ."
has increased.
And I'm still trying to figure out
how do we explain just the despair in the culture today.
One out of three Americans say they're happy.
That's it—only one out of three.
Depression is drawing close to heart disease
as the number two, as the most prevalent illness
in the world, in America.
And then the increase in suicide
is just the pandemic that we don't all wanna talk about.
And so, trying to get our hands and heads around this
is a very valid topic.
- Yeah, so this whole message of happiness,
it's been obviously on your heart,
you wrote a book about it,
but what have you found?
Like, when you've dug into just the marketing side,
and the comparison side, what are you seeing
in our culture today?
- Well you talk a lot about comparisons in your book,
and number one, comparison is, because of social media,
is comparison on steroids.
I mean, it's just gone wacko.
It's just gone wacko.
But comparison always results
in either superiority or inferiority—
feelings of I'm better or I'm worse.
Neither one of those is healthy.
And so, learning to manage that comparison trap
is a huge deal in this day and age.
- Absolutely.
So when you dig through Scripture, specifically,
what do you find it says about happiness?
Like what's the guide? What's the path?
- Well, the counterintuitive message of Scripture
is when Jesus said it's really better to give than receive.
And so, what I think He was saying there,
among other things, is if you wanna be happy,
just give happiness to others.
And you can be guaranteed, you can be guaranteed . . .
I've double-dog dared people this
for about two or three years.
Take a day, make it your day to make other people happy.
Just do it.
Just see what in the world happens.
Put it to the test.
You know, see what happens.
Set loose. You know, go and serve people,
encourage people, call people up for no other reason
except to tell them they're great folks.
Maybe forgive some people.
Just kind of honor people.
And I've yet to have anybody say anything except,
you know, that was a pretty cool day.
So, that's wonderful, Rachel, because I can control that.
I can't control the weather.
I can't control so much of life.
But I can control how I treat people.
That's why I think that happiness levels can go up
if we'll take that angle that Jesus gave us,
and that's to try to make other people happy.
- Yeah, it's so good.
And it is, it's like, we talk about giving a lot,
money, on the show, and getting to the point financially
where you're not burdened by debt,
and that you're able to live with this open hand
and give because that happiness—
- [Max] Is so fun.
- Comes out of that giving, yes.
So, how do you think happiness and money relate?
What do you see in that?
- Well, I think generosity's huge.
It really is. It really is.
To be able to do something
that maybe even is a bit spontaneous but extravagant
for somebody, that just knocks them off their feet,
it is so much fun.
It really is.
And then just measured giving, to be able to tithe
in your church or in an organization,
it's a wonderful thing.
I draw a lot of satisfaction
out of being able to leave a good inheritance for my kids.
I'm pro-money.
I'm not pro-materialism, but I'm pro-money,
because it's just a great tool with which
to make people happy.
- Amen.
So your new book, "How Happiness Happens,"
I'm really, really excited to read it.
So dig into that a little bit.
Like, what caused you to write it?
What's the message in it? What can people learn from it?
- When I saw that statistic, Rachel,
that said only one in three Americans are happy,
that got me interested in happiness.
But the materialism factor is really big
because of the advertising factor.
And that's fine, everybody's got,
we've got good ideas, and we wanna pitch them. That's legitimate.
We who hear the ideas
need to be able to filter it correctly, so that's up to us.
- Yes, so good. Oh Max, thank you
so, so much. - Thank you.
Thank you. - You guys,
pick up a copy of that book
or any book that he's written, there's tons of them.
But you are just a master communicator.
You bring God's Word to life.
And even, you spoke to our entire company today,
and I heard some people just talking about like,
I'm just happier after hearing from Max.
I was like, his message definitely hit home.
- I'm happy about that (chuckles).
- Really a pleasure for you—
- Thank you, Rachel. - to sit here and be here.
- Thank you so much. - So, thank you. Thank you.
(uplifting music)