The past
12 months have been pretty chaotic
for Rupert Murdoch,
and it goes beyond this high stakes case.
Vanity Fair's Gabriel Sherman
has the behind the scenes
reporting on the billionaire's
media moguls,
health problems, his divorce,
a broken engagement
and a real life
succession battle among his kids.
There's even signs that a hit HBO show
has been getting under his skin.
Dad's gone.
We have to trust each other.
What about me?
Don't lie to me.
I got a lot of options.
Well, Sherman has been struck
by how diminished
Murdoch's own influence
has been after the 2020 election writing.
Rupert called Trump
before Biden's inauguration
to tell him to accept defeat graciously,
the source said.
Trump refused.
Trump threatened to start his own channel
and put Fox out of business.
The source said
Murdoch seemed trapped
by the people he radicalized.
Gabriel Sherman joins us now.
He's a special correspondent
at Vanity Fair.
And you can read
the article in Vanity Fair,
RT.com and Vanity
Fair's May issue,
which hits newsstands on May 2nd.
Good morning to you.
We're so happy that you're here.
So this has been going on for
quite some time.
It's more than just the Dominion case.
So what gives here
as it relates to Rupert Murdoch?
Does this inform you as to
what may happen with this case?
Yeah.
Good morning, guys.
You know, I
without question,
I think the fact that they're
in this $1.6 billion
lawsuit is a result of Rupert Murdoch's
diminished leadership
and the fact that there really has been
this vacuum at the top of the company
and it allowed
all of these Dominion falsehoods
and these lies
to get onto the air or Fox,
because they put ratings above all else.
And there was really no adult in the room
to say that, you know,
we can get the ratings now,
but there'll be long
term consequences later. Yeah.
You quote Murdoch as later testifying.
He told Jared Kushner,
of course,
the former president's son in law.
Well, the numbers are the numbers.
When Trump
was so mad about the Arizona call,
I do think
a diminished Murdoch
is such a fascinating part
of your reporting,
Gabe,
that many people certainly don't see that
he doesn't want people to see.
But you open your piece
saying
Murdoch is trying to prove one last act,
as in him,
but his erratic performance,
which is throwing his personal life
and his media empire into disarray,
has left
even those in his orbit wondering
if he has lost the plot.
I wonder what your answers
to that question
now that you've reported this out
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
No, I think
sort of sadly,
I read the quote, that quote
you just read answers the question.
You know, Rupert Murdoch just turned 92.
And for so long, he's sort of kept up
this myth in the media that he's
this all powerful mogul.
And what I learned
after months of reporting
is that you know, behind the scenes,
he is really,
you know,
as his age would suggest, a very old man.
And there's this joke inside
the Murdoch family that,
you know, 40 might be the new 30,
but 80 is 80.
And I think what that means is that he
he is
his health has been failing
for a long time.
And I think now we're just catching up
to the fact
that he's a shell of what he used to be.
Yeah.
But Warren Buffett's also 92
and people are still very keenly
listening to what he says
and following his lead.
So Clive,
whose name Clive Davis,
is still very close,
even more than age itself.
But I would point out that Warren
Warren Buffett is often,
you know, he's out giving interviews.
You know, we really don't yeah.
Rupert Murdoch in public,
except Will, you know,
perhaps at this Dominion trial.
Yeah.
Can we talk a little bit
more about the Dominion tribe?
Because you address these revelations
in the court filings
that the damage is done and you write
in their own words,
Fox hosts
have been exposed as propagandists.
If we lose this suit,
it's F-ing bad,
a senior Fox staffer told me.
And you wrote the book on Fox
this is in 2014,
the loudest voice in the room
that you wrote.
What else are you hearing from
inside insiders there
Yeah, no,
I think this is really
an existential crisis for the network,
regardless of the financial impact.
You know, reputationally,
they've been exposed
the emails that Dominion has
obtained in their discovery process.
You know, as a reporter
who's covered this world,
I dreamed of getting that kind of inside
look in that access to Fox News.
And because of the court order, Dominion
was able to get access
to Fox's
internal communications
and it really was
as bad as you might imagine.
They were, you know, lying
to their audience in private.
They said Trump was crazy.
And then on the air
for 24 hours a day, they would say, he's
the greatest thing ever.
So I think
that to me is one of the lasting impacts
of this trial, regardless of the outcome.
Yeah.
And even all those questioning
about COVID and vaccine, etc.,
during COVID,
it was you revealed
Murdoch was always following the science
and always being extra careful, you know,
during COVID.
Yeah.
I mean, his is then his then wife,
Jerri Hall, required
everyone to test before
seeing him wear masks. Excuse me.
Happens to us all the time.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the irony,
the fact that they were
I think the fact that they were really
just disrespecting their audience
and saying one thing while doing another,
I think will be, again,
just the lasting impact of this era.
I just want to end on this.
The sadness was not striking to you that
gay rights after interviewing
dozens of people,
I was struck by how sad
all the Murdochs seem.
And it made you think like four.
What can I do?
Why do it all?
And one thing,
because you talk about this
struggle between Lachlan Murdoch
and James Murdoch,
and you said a senior
staffer told you that
James Murdoch sees destroying Fox News.
This is the other brother.
His politics
don't go along with Rupert and Lachlan.
He sees destroying
Fox News is his mission in life.
When Murdoch is gone,
You think that that could happen?
Could James take control
and change sort of the trajectory of
a Fox News
Yeah, that would depend on him
winning the support of his two sisters
because you need
three out of the four siblings to
to align to change the leadership
and I think
there's really a shadow war
going on behind the scenes for that.
But I see your point on the sadness.
I mean, all that money, all that power,
and it's destroyed a family.
And I again,
I think there's sort of like
a lesson for everyone there.