Welcome back to the show.
Thank you. Thanks for having me back.
It has been a few years since you've been here,
and it is safe to say a few things have happened
-A few? -since you have been here.
-Yes. -Yes, life has changed dramatically
-for congressional Democrats, specifically. -Yes.
-Let's talk about the news of the day, Iran. -Yes.
This is one of those stories
where many people are speculating
as to what Trump's true intentions were.
-Right. -A lot of people are also saying
that this could be America getting into another war
-Mm-hmm. -where a president just does it on his own
with no congressional approval, as is supposed to happen.
What do you make of that,
especially seeing as the Trump administration says: No,
this is technically linked to 9/11
and everything that has happened before.
-It's not a new war. -Who knows?
The problem is, is that the president has lied
more than 10,000 times since he's been in office.
So how can we believe anything that is said
from the administration?
One minute you say there was an imminent threat,
but you can't tell anybody what the threat was.
You know, they bring members of Congress in
for a top secret briefing, and they tell us all the goods--
they don't even have it planned.
So we really don't know what went on,
and that's what makes it so scary.
Right. When you... when you look at the situation
as it stands now, it looks like America may be in a position
where... there could be another war brewing.
-More troops are now headed to the Middle East. -Exactly. Yes.
Democrats have drafted a bill, trying to limit the powers
that a president has in going to war.
Do you think these... this same law would have been drafted
if it were a Democratic president?
Yes. Actually, President Obama asked us to draft the law,
because the last time a president was given permission
to go to war, it was with Iraq.
So that permission is years old.
-Right. -President Obama asked us to do it,
but we didn't do it.
Huh. Why do you think that was?
Well, I think that there was a lot of differences.
Remember, the Republicans were in control.
But in January of last year, the Democrats took over.
So I do believe that when we go back in session tomorrow,
that before the week is over we will actually vote
on a new resolution, the War Powers Act is what it's called.
And I believe we'll vote on it again,
and we will definitely try to limit this president.
You know, he didn't even know who Soleimani was
a few months ago.
He thought he was Kurdish, you know?
And-and remember now, he was the one
that was involved in helping us get rid of ISIS
-out of Iraq. -Right.
But I think... but I think, in Trump's defense, though,
I think, first of all, the clip that's going around
was from 2015, before he was president,
and he didn't... yes, he didn't know who Soleimani was.
-He said... -I don't think he knew two weeks ago.
-You genuinely don't think so? -I really don't.
Because you know he doesn't read.
But then let me ask you...
-I can't dispute that. -Right.
-I can't dispute that, but... -(cheering and applause)
But, then, l-let me ask you honestly.
Who do you... who do you think is more to blame?
The president who made this decision
or the generals who presented him with the decision
that was so crazy that even they were shocked by it?
Well, I... I agree with you.
They should've never presented that,
but there are people in his administration,
like the Secretary of State,
who have been wanting to go to-to war with Iran
-for a long time. -Right.
So I think this was just the excuse.
You know, I've been to that base. The Green Zone.
I've been to that, um, that, uh, embassy.
-Yes. -And the idea that that was overrun was huge.
It means that the Iraqi military kind of said,
"Have at it, guys."
When they... when they, uh, had all the protests
-and were burning the embassy down. -Right, right, right.
It is an interesting time for-for the U.S. in the world,
the way America approaches the world
and the way the world is approaching America.
It's also interesting for the U.S.
because impeachment is still a hot topic
despite the new year.
Many people would argue
that Democrats and Nancy Pelosi specifically
withholding the articles of... of impeachment from the Senate
shows that this was a partisan move.
-Why not... -Oh, yeah.
Why not send the articles of impeachment through?
Why not have the process continue
considering that the Democrats said that this process
has to take place as quickly as possible?
Right. Well, I'm sure that we will be sending them over.
You remember we voted on impeachment
right before both houses recessed.
-Mm-hmm. -I'm sure we will do it.
But I know that Speaker Pelosi
wants there to be a legitimate trial.
Can you imagine the foreman of a jury
going into the courtroom and telling the judge,
"Hey, Judge. I'm meeting with the defendant.
-We're on the same page"? -Right.
That's what Mitch McConnell did.
-But-but... -And so what the Speaker wants to see
-is a legitimate trial. A process. -Mm-hmm.
But is there a legitimacy to this trial?
Because it-it isn't the same thing
as a criminal trial.
I mean, that's-that's the quirk of American law
is that it's not a criminal trial.
They can say that they're unbiased.
They're not really a jury.
It's-it's an interesting process where Senate...
You know, Mitch McConnell has the most power in this process.
So, do you... do you think it makes sense
for them to give you the veneer of-of being neutral,
or would you rather they just say, "No,
we're going with Trump regardless of what happens"?
Well, I actually think
if they brought some witnesses forward
that some of those senators might develop the courage needed
to do what they know is right.
-Interesting. -You know what they could do?
What if they got together
and decided to have a secret ballot?
If they did a secret ballot,
I think Trump would be out of there in 24 hours.
I mean, the reason why the Republican...
The reason why the senators who know better
are going to defend him
is because they're afraid he's gonna tweet.
They're afraid he's gonna go and have a rally in their district.
So you think if the senators voted in secret to im...
to impeach Trump, to charge him,
then you think that they would vote against Donald Trump?
I do, and several of the former...
You know, Jeff Flake, Senator Flake said
he thought that a lot of people would vote against him
to kick him out if they could do it on a secret ballot.
But they're all afraid, and I think that's shameful.
Let's move now to your work.
(applause)
Let's move now to your work
within the Congressional Black Caucus.
-Yes. -America's in a really interesting place,
gearing up for the 2020 election.
Democrats are in an interesting place,
where you have more candidates than ever
and yet, at the same time, less representation than ever,
as we look at it now.
Um, some are saying that the party
doesn't represent its constituents.
Others are saying that this is just a byproduct
of the way the race was run.
Where do you think the Democratic Party stands?
Is it too many ideas under one tent?
Or do you think people can coalesce behind one idea?
Oh, I think people are so concerned
about getting this guy out of office.
I mean, I would like for it to be before November.
But if not, it absolutely has to be by November.
And I believe that we will coalesce. I really do.
And I think the thing about Democrats is
we are very diverse.
You look at my colleagues on the other side of the aisle--
look at it sometimes-- they all look the same.
-(laughing) -We... (chuckling)
-They do. (chuckles) -(applause)
But don't you think-- but don't you think
that makes it easier for them to work as a unit?
-Absolutely. -Because if you look at the Republican Party,
yes, they do look the same, but they also have the same ideas.
-So they go, "This is what we're voting for. -Right.
We'll vote for Trump. We'll--" you know, as they said in 2016--
"hold our noses and make the decision."
Democrats have, as many have called,
either a purity test or ideologies that are different.
-Ocasio-Cortez even said recently -Uh-huh.
she would not be in the same party as Joe Biden
if it weren't a two-party system.
Do you think those divisions can be healed
when it's time to have one Democratic candidate?
I absolutely do.
And I believe that my colleague will be right there, too.
Because if we have a choice,
it might not be your favorite choice
as to who wins the nomination.
But look at what's at risk: the Supreme Court,
the federal judges, all of the agencies that he appointed.
Cabinet secretaries, too,
so they would go in and destroy the agencies.
-Mm-hmm. -There's too much at risk.
So, the Congressional Black Caucus,
we're bringing leaders together from around the country
in a few weeks to talk about 2020 is the do-or-die year.
If we get it wrong, we are gonna screw up this place
for the next two generations.
And you talk about our standing in the world--
people laugh at us. I know you know that.
-I-I sit on Foreign Affairs. I go around the world. -(chuckles)
How can I say anything about corruption in another country?
How can I tell an African leader,
"Oh, don't appoint your son"?
He's got his son. He's got his daughter.
-He's got his whole family there. -Right.
He goes and plays golf.
Every time he goes and plays golf, we pay for it.
He's made a truckload of money since he's been president.
When you look at black voters then,
as the Congressional Black Caucus,
how do you address some of the unique concerns
that many black voters in America have, where they say--
many say, "Hey, I haven't seen my life change that much.
"I-I don't see the effectiveness of my vote.
"I don't understand, you know, why I need to come out and vote.
I don't even know if I'm just being used as a pawn."
-Yeah. -It feels like black voters in America get recognized
when it's voting time, and then,
for the rest of the term, they're just on the back burner.
How would that change, or do you think there are
certain ways you could address the black vote in America?
I absolutely think-- and I think it's our responsibility.
It is my responsibility.
I mean, one of the reasons why we're coming together
and doing this summit in a couple of weeks
is because we want to make sure people understand
the differences that the Black Caucus has made!
A lot of times, I think one of our weaknesses
as the Black Caucus is we really haven't spent the time
telling people these are the things that we got done.
We got $40 million for historically black caucuses--
I mean black colleges.
We've been able to do all of these things.
So, it's my responsibility as a member of congress
to make sure that people understand this is why you vote.
You vote, number one, because you don't want
bad things to happen, but, number two,
because you can actually get things done.
Criminal justice reform.
About 20,000 people have been released from prison
because of the work that we did, and it was led
by the Black Caucus, even though
Trump tries to take credit for it.
But we have a lot of legislation
that we've been able to accomplish.
But it's our job to make sure that people know that.
-You're working... -(applause, cheering)
You're working now on a, on a really interesting project,
and that is working on America's relationship with Africa.
Yes.
And specifically Africa's image.
Yes.
Why is that important and what are you trying to do?
Oh, it's... it's so important to me
to change the way our country views the continent of Africa.
And I actually think that we kind of look at Africa
like we do inner-city America, you know?
All the problems, you know.
Uh, needing help all the time.
And I joke and say that people in the United States
think Africa is a country the size of Texas.
I mean, so it's important to me to educate people
that Africa's a continent with 50-plus countries.
You can fit the United States in there three times.
And we need to view Africa as a partner;
an opportunity-- the rest of the world does.
We need to do business with the continent of Africa,
and not just look at Africa from the point of view
of foreign aid-- as a matter of fact,
I like the slogan that's used in Africa:
"Trade, not aid."
So, we're gonna be taking a delegation over
to the opening of the African Union, uh, in February.
And then in, in August, uh, Speaker Pelosi led
a delegation with the Congressional Black Caucus
to go to Ghana, because you know, last year,
was the 400th anniversary from our arrival on the continent.
(audience cheering)
-It's an exciting time. -It is.
Especially for you and your job.
I'm excited to see what happens.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
-Thanks for having me. -Wonderful to see you again.
Congresswoman Karen Bass, everybody!