IT'S A SPANISH MINISTER WITH I'M GOING TO PUT YOU TO THE
TEST AND I'LL BE NICE, WE WILL DO THIS IN ENGLISH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON BLOOMBERG.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. OBVIOUSLY, I KNOW YOU ARE IZZY
AND PREPPING FOR NEXT WEEK, WHICH IS GOING TO BE A HUGE
WEEK FOR DIPLOMACY. NATO MEETINGS.
SIMPLE QUESTION, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH UKRAINE AND
SWEDEN?
>> WE WILL HAVE TO DISCUSS ON THE TABLE BUT THE MOOD OF SPAIN
IS WE HAVE TO MOVE FROM WHAT WAS ALREADY AGREED AT THE
SUMMIT IN BUCHAREST CONCERNING UKRAINE. UNITY.
AS WE HAVE ALSO BEEN DOING. UNITY AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING
SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.
IT WILL BE AN ENDPOINT. MARIA:
YOU SAID WE HAD TO MOVE PAST BUCHAREST. UKRAINIANS WOULD
AGREE, SAYING WE WERE NOT GIVEN A REAL PERSPECTIVE AND THAT BY
THE END OF THE SUMMIT WE WANT A SENTENCE THAT SAYS WHEN THE WAR
IS OVER, UKRAINE WILL JUMP -- JOIN.
YOU MUST KNOW THE MOOD IN THE ROOM AT THIS POINT. JOSE:
WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS THAT, I AM SURE.
AND I'M SURE THE WORDING WILL CAPTURE THAT.
THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS WE ARE GOING TO DO.
THERE IS THE NATO UKRAINE COUNSEL IN WHICH UKRAINE WILL
SIT ON EQUAL FOOTING WITH ALL THE NATO MEMBERS.
WE CAN HELP UKRAINE TO MOVE FROM A SORT OF SOVIET ARMY TO A
NATO ARMY. THERE ARE MANY THINGS THEY WILL
GET OUT OF THAT. MARIA: OF COURSE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT
OF TALK ABOUT THE ISRAELI MODEL. WHAT I HAVE PICKED UP FROM YOU
IS THAT THE ACTUAL CONSENSUS IS STILL IN THE WORKS.
AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
THE WORDING IS BEING DEBATED.
JOSE: THERE ARE MANY DAYS TO GO BUT I
CAN SPEAK ON BEHALF OF SPAIN AND DEFINITELY, SPAIN IS NOT
THE ONLY COUNTRY AT THE TABLE THINKING LIKE THAT WHERE IT IS
CLEAR, WHAT WE SAID IN BUCHAREST. UKRAINE WILL ONE DAY
BE A MEMBER OF NATO. NOW WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD TO
ENSURE A PATH. MARIA: THE SAME APPLIES TO THE
EUROPEAN UNION QUESTION MARK JOSE: ABSOLUTELY.
THAT PROSPECTUS ON CANDIDACY WAS MADE BY CONSENSUS AND SPAIN
WILL FOSTER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THAT.
WE ARE WAITING FOR THE OPINION OF THE COMMISSION COMING OUT IN
OCTOBER. AS SOON AS IT IS, SPAIN'S
PRESIDENCY WILL MOVE FORWARD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. MARIA:
YOU BELIEVE THAT SESSION TALKS THIS YEAR ARE A POSSIBILITY TO
MARK JOSE: MORE THAN A POSSIBLE --
POSSIBILITY? JOSE: MORE THAN A POSSIBILITY.
IF WE COME TO THAT OPINION, THE COMMISSION WILL BE OUT AND
AROUND AND FROM THERE I CANNOT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE
COMMISSION BUT WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT'S THERE.
IF THEY MEET THE EXPECTATION, THAT IS A POSSIBILITY
DEFINITELY. MARIA:
LET'S GO BACK IN TIME TO THE NATO SUMMIT THAT YOU HOSTED
LAST YEAR. YOU AND I SPOKE AT THE TIME AND
THAT WAS A FLURRY OF DIPLOMACY AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU
MANAGE TO DO WAS TO GET TURKEY, THE SWEDISH, THE FINISH IN THE
SAME PLACE WITH THE SECRETARY-GENERAL AND GET THE
OK TO ENTER NATO. WE KNOW NOW THAT THE FINISH RA
MEMBER OF NATO.
-- R A MEMBER -- ARE A MEMBER OF NATO.
WILL THE OTHERS GET THE OK? JOSE: I HOPE SO.
IT'S BEEN SHOWN BILATERALLY BY SPAIN THAT SWEDEN CAN JOIN.
ALL THE SECURITY CONCERNS OF ALL THE NATO MEMBER COUNTRIES
MUST BE MET. ALSO THE SECURITY CONCERNS OF
TURKEY. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THINGS ARE
MOVING WELL, ADVANCING WELL, THE BILATERAL DIALOGUE BETWEEN
SWEDEN AND TURKEY CONTINUES. MY WISH, THE WISH OF SPAIN, IS
THAT THERE WILL BE A MOMENT IN WHICH WE HAVE SWEDEN DEFINITELY
WITHIN THE FAMILY. MARIA:
SO YOU ARE SAYING FROM THE SPANISH PERSPECTIVE, THE
POSITION IS CLEAR, SWEDEN HAS TO JOIN AND THAT IS IT. JOSE:
ABSOLUTELY. MARIA: IN MADRID, ERDOGAN WAS THE
START OF THE -- STAR OF THE SHOW. IS THIS A TACTIC HE PLAYS?
ARE THESE REAL CONCERNS THAT HE HAS?
IS THERE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU CAN GET TO BEFORE THE
SUMMIT STARTS ON TUESDAY? JOSE:
TURKEY DOESN'T OPPOSED TO THE SESSION OF SWEDEN.
THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING, THEY ARE NOT OPPOSED TO IT.
THERE ARE SOME SECURITY CONCERNS THAT MUST BE ON THE
SIDE OF TURKEY, THEY MUST BE MET. THIS IS A MATTER OF THE
BILATERAL DIALOGUE BETWEEN TURKEY AND SWEDEN AND THINGS
ARE GOING WELL, SO I AM CONFIDENT THAT IT WILL BE THE
ENDPOINT OR THE BEGINNING OF THE ENDPOINT. MARIA:
THE NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL, EXTENDED FOR ANOTHER YEAR,
REPEATED THAT MESSAGE. SECURITY COMPLETED FROM THE
NORDICS. BUT FROM THERE I WANT TO GO TO
CHINA. WHEN I SAY CHINA, WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF QUESTION MARK FRIEND, RIVAL?
MAJOR SECURITY RISK, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU? JOSE:
IT'S A BIG POWER FROM A MILITARY POINT OF VIEW, FROM A
POPULATION POINT OF VIEW. THERE ARE GLOBAL CHALLENGES
THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MEET WITHOUT CHINA.
CLIMATE CHANGE, YES, TO PUT IT THE MOST IMPORTANT WAY.
WE ARE IN A DIALOGUE THAT IS A VERY OPEN AND FRANK DIALOGUE.
ON TRADE WE WANT LEVERAGE AND EQUAL FOOTING FOR EVERYTHING
CONCERNING TRADE. EVERY TIME WE HAVE MET WITH
CHINESE AUTHORITIES WE HAVE ASKED THEM TO USE THEIR
INFLUENCE. ON RUSSIA, VERY SPECIFICALLY,
ON VLADIMIR PUTIN TO BRING PEACE BACK. MARIA:
ARE THEY DOING THAT? PEOPLE ARE SAYING NO, IF XI
JINPING WANTED TO MEDIATE, HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT ALREADY.
JOSE: IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO ENGAGE
WITH THEM. I WOULD SAY THEY ARE IN GOOD
FAITH. MARIA:
WHAT ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S.
QUESTION MARK PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS BEING THE TIGHTEST WE HAVE
EVER BEEN BUT TRADE RELATIONS AT TIMES, YOU WANT MAIDEN
EUROPE, -- MADE IN EUROPE, THEY WANT MAIDEN AMERICA.
AND IT COULD BE THE RETURN OF TRUMP'S TEAR. JOSE:
UNITED STATES -- RETURN OF TRUMP NEXT YEAR. JOSE:
UNITED STATES IS A NATURAL ALLY. THROUGH THE TOUGHEST TIMES.
WE ARE RIGHT NOW FACING THE THREAT OF RUSSIA TOWARDS
UKRAINE AND EUROPE.
THE PRESIDENT, THE WHITE HOUSE, WE WERE THERE ON MAY 12 AND WE
DISCUSSED ALL THE ISSUES AROUND COMMON VALUES.
WE ARE NATO ALLIES. WE HAVE ATLANTIC SECURITY AND
SHARE THE SAME CONCERNS FOR CLIMATE CHANGE. FOR DEMOCRACY.
MARIA: THAT'S WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.
WHAT IF THERE ISN'T A REPEAT OF HIS PRESIDENCY? JOSE:
IT'S UP TO THE AMERICAN CITIZENS TO DECIDE THAT BUT ALL
I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT MY GOVERNMENT FEELS VERY
COMFORTABLE WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION LIKE
BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION, AND ADMINISTRATION WHO BELIEVES IN
MULTILATERALISM AND HAS BROUGHT THE UNITED STATES TO THE PARIS
AGREEMENT AND IS SHOWING COMMITMENT TO EURO ATLANTIC
SECURITY AND THEREFORE DURING THIS SPANISH PRESIDENCY WE WILL
FORCE THAT UNITY. MARIA:
YOU ALSO HAVE AN ELECTION COMING UP. LOOKING AT THE MACRO
INDICATORS, YOU ARE GROWING. INFLATION HAS MAJORLY COME DOWN
BUT YOU ARE STILL TRAILING IN THE POLLS. WHAT'S GOING ON?
WHAT'S THE GAP BETWEEN PERFORMANCE ON ECONOMICS AND
NOT LEADING IN THE POLLS? JOSE: THE ONLY POLLS THAT COUNT ARE
THE FINAL VOTE. MARIA: YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL WIN IT?
JOSE: OF COURSE, JULY 23RD. AS YOU SAY, THE ECONOMY IS
BOOSTING. WE HAVE 21 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE,
IT'S A HISTORICAL RIPPLE. JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES
THAT ARE IMPORTANT, ONE OF THE LOWEST INFLATION IN EUROPE.
A GROWTH THAT IS DOUBLED THE MEDIAN AVERAGE OF EUROPEAN
UNION. AND WE ARE DOING THAT AND AT
THE SAME TIME PROTECTING PEOPLE. INCREASING MINIMUM WAGE.
INCREASING PENSION RATES AS THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN DONE
DURING OUR HISTORY. AND OF COURSE, THERE IS A LOT
OF NOISE. A LOT OF NOISE. MARIA: WHAT DO YOU MEAN? JOSE:
FAKE NEWS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS ON THE PRESIDENT.
THE CAMPAIGN, THE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN WE ARE UNDERGOING IS
THERE TO CLARIFY, EXPLAIN, AND SEPARATE THE NOISE, THE FAKE
NEWS FROM THE REAL FACT. THE REAL FACT ARE THAT WE ARE
SHOWING THAT WE ARE MANAGING WELL THE ECONOMY AND AT THE
SAME TIME THAT WE ARE PROTECTING PEOPLE AS NEEDED
WHEN THEY FACE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES OF
RUSSIAN AGGRESSION TO UKRAINE. MARIA:
BRIEFLY, IF YOU HAVE A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT, WOULD
YOU CALL IT FAR RIGHT? IN MY VIEW, IT'S FAR RIGHT.
JOSE: OF COURSE IT'S FAR RIGHT. MARIA:
SPAIN WOULD HAVE A FAR RIGHT GOVERNMENT?
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE THAT. JOSE:
THEY SAY IT THEMSELVES, THINGS THAT ARE AGAINST THE CENTRAL
PART OF THE EUROPEAN AGENDA SUCH AS BIODIVERSITY, CLIMATE
CHANGE, EQUALITY, LGBTQIA WRITES. -- RIGHTS.
THINGS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL TO THE GREEN AGENDA OF EUROPE AND
ARE THE COOK -- CORE VALUES OF INFRASTRUCTURE. MARIA:
YOU MADE IT CLEAR YOU THINK THE SPANISH SOCIALIST PARTY WILL BE
THE WINNERS AND IF YOU DO WIN, YOU HAVE TO DO AN INTERVIEW
WITH US. JOSE: I WILL.