(upbeat instrumental music)
>> Kubecon, Cloud Native Con kicks off
in Detroit on October 24th
and we're pleased to have Stuart Miniman
who's the director of Market Insights,
for hybrid platforms at Red Hat back in the studio
to help us understand the key trends
to look for at the events.
Stu, welcome back, like old home week.
>> Thank you, David.
It's great to see you and always love
doing these previews, even though Dave, come on.
How many years have I told you Cloud Native Con
It's a hoodie crowd.
They're going to totally call you out for wearin' a tie
and things like that.
I know you want to be an ESPN sportscaster,
but you know
I still don't think even after, you know
this show's been around for so many years
that there's going to be too many ties in Detroit.
>> I know I left the hoodie in my office,
I'm sorry folks, but hey,
we'll just have to go for it.
Okay. Containers generally
and Kubernetes specifically continue to show very
strong spending momentum in the ETR survey data.
So let's bring up this slide that shows the ETR sectors,
all the sectors in the taxonomy
with net score or spending velocity on the vertical axis
and pervasiveness on the horizontal axis.
Now, that red dotted line that you see
that marks the elevated 40% mark
anything above that is considered highly elevated
in terms of momentum.
Now, for years, the big four areas of momentum
that shine above all the rest have been
Cloud, Containers, RPA, and ML slash AI.
And for the first time in 10 quarters
ML and AI and RPA have dropped below the 40% line
leaving only Cloud and Containers in rarefied air.
Now, Stu, I'm sure this data doesn't surprise you
but what do you make of this?
>> Yeah, well, Dave, I did an interview
with Deepak who owns all the Container
and open source activity at Amazon
earlier this year, and his comment was
the default deployment mechanism in Amazon is Containers.
So when I look at your data and I see Containers
and Cloud going in sync, yeah,
that's how we see things.
We're helping lots of customers in their overall adoption.
And this cloud native ecosystem is still, you know,
we're still in that Cambrian explosion
of new projects, new opportunities.
AI's a great workload for these type type of technologies.
So it's really becoming pervasive in the marketplace.
>> And I feel like Cloud and Containers go hand in hand.
So it's not surprising to see those two above the 40%.
>> Yeah, look, there's nothing to say that,
look can I run my Containers
in my data center and not do the public Cloud?
Sure, but in the public Cloud, the default is the Container.
And one of the hot discussions we've been having
in this ecosystem for a number of years is edge computing.
And of course, you know, I want something that's small,
and lightweight and can do things really fast.
A lot of times it's an AI workload out there
and Containers is a great fit at the edge too.
So wherever it goes, Containers is a good fit
which has been keeping my group at Red Hat pretty busy.
>> So let's talk about some
of those high level stats that we put together
in preview for the events.
So it's really around the adoption
of open source software and Kubernetes.
Here's, you know, a few fun facts.
So according to the state of enterprise open source report
which was published by Red Hat
although it was based on a blind survey
nobody knew that Red Hat was initiating it.
80% of IT execs expect to increase their use
of enterprise open source software.
Now the CNCF community has currently more
than 120,000 developers.
That's insane when you think about that developer resource.
73% of organizations
in the most recent CNCF annual survey are using Kubernetes.
Now, despite the momentum, according
to that same Red Hat survey
adoption barriers remain for some organizations.
Stu, I'd love you to talk about this specifically
around skill sets and then we've highlighted some
of the other trends that we expect to see
at the event around, Stu, I'd love to hear again,
get your thoughts on the preview.
You've done a number of these events, automation
security, governance, governance at scale, edge deployments,
which you just mentioned, among others.
Now Kubernetes is eight years old
and I always hear people talking about
there's something coming beyond Kubernetes
but it looks like we're just getting started.
>> Yeah, Dave, it is still relatively early days.
The CMCF survey I think said, you know,
96% of companies
when CMCF surveyed then last year were either
deploying Kubernetes or had plans to deploy it.
But when I talked to enterprises, nobody has said like,
"Hey, we've got every group on board
and all of our applications are on."
It is a multi-year journey
for most companies and plenty of them,
if you, you look at the general adoption of technology
we're still working through kind of that early majority.
We, you know, passed the chasm a couple of years ago.
But to a point, you and I, we're talking about this
ecosystem, there are plenty of people in this ecosystem
that could care less about Containers and Kubernetes.
Lots of conversations
at this show won't even talk about Kubernetes.
You've got, you know, big security group that's in there.
You've got, you know, certain workloads
like we talked about,
AI and ML and that are in there.
And automation absolutely is playing
a good role in what's going on here.
So in some ways, Kubernetes kind of takes
a backseat because it is table stakes at this point.
So lots of people involved in it,
lots of activities still going on.
I mean, we're still at a cadence of three times a year now.
We slowed it down from four times a year as an industry,
but there's still lots of innovation happening,
lots of adoption and oh my gosh, Dave,
I mean, there's just no shortage of new projects
and new people getting involved.
And what's phenomenal about it is there's
end user practitioners that aren't just contributing.
But many of the projects were spawned
out of work by the likes of Intuit and Spotify
and many others that created some
of the projects that sit alongside or above
the container orchestration itself.
>> So before we talked about some of that,
it's kind of interesting.
It's like Kubernetes is the big dog, right?
And it's kind of maturing after you know, eight years,
but it's still important.
I want to share another data point that underscores
the traction that Containers, generally, are getting
and Kubernetes specifically have.
So this is data from the latest ETR survey
and shows the spending breakdown for Kubernetes
in the ETR data set.
It's cut for respondents with 50 or more citations
by the IT practitioners.
That lime green is new adoptions,
the forest green is spending 6%
or more relative to last year.
The gray is flat spending year on year.
And those little pink bars, that's 6% or down spending
and the bright red is retirements.
So they're leaving the platform.
And the blue dots are net score
which is derived by subtracting the reds from the greens.
And the yellow dots are pervasiveness
in the survey relative to the sector.
So the big takeaway here is
that there is virtually no red, essentially zero churn
across all sectors, large companies, public companies,
private firms, telcos, finance, insurance, et cetera.
So again, sometimes I hear there's things beyond Kubernetes
you've mentioned several, but it feels
like Kubernetes is still a driving force
but a lot of other projects around Kubernetes
which we're going to hear about at the show.
>> Yeah, so Dave, right?
First of all, there was for a number of years,
oh wait, you know, don't waste your time on
Containers because serverless is going to rule the world.
Well, serverless is now a little bit of a broader term.
Can I do a serverless viewpoint for my developers
that they don't need to think about the infrastructure
but still have Containers underneath it?
Absolutely. So our friends
at Amazon have a solution called Fargate,
their proprietary offering to kind of hide that piece of it.
And in the open source world
there's a project called K Native, I think it's the second
or third K Native Con's going to happen at the CNCF.
And even if you use this, I could still call things
over on Lambda and use some of those functions.
So we know Dave, IT is additive and nothing ever dominates
the entire world and nothing ever dies.
So we have a long runway of activities
still to go on in Containers, in Kubernetes.
We're always looking for what that next thing is.
And what's great about this ecosystem is most
of it tends to be additive and plug into the pieces that,
there's certain tools that, you know
span beyond what can happen
in the Container world and aren't limited to it.
And there's others that are specific for it.
And to talk about the industries, Dave, you know, I love
we have a community event that we run that's going to happen
at KubeCon, it's called OpenShift Commons.
And when you look at like, who's speaking there?
Oh, we've got, you know, Ford, Lockheed Martin,
University of Michigan and ING Bank all speaking there.
So you look and it's like, okay, cool,
I've got automotive I've got public sector,
I've got university education and I've got finance.
So all of you know
there is not an industry that is not touched by this.
And the general wave of software adoption is the reason why
not just adoption, but the creation
of new software is one of the differentiators for companies.
And that is what, that's the reason why I do Containers.
Isn't because it's some cool technology
and Kubernetes is great to put on my resume
but that it can actually accelerate my developers
and help me create technology that makes me respond
to my business and my ultimate end users.
>> Well and you know, as you know,
we've been talking about the Supercloud a lot
and the Kubernetes is clearly enabler to Supercloud
but I wanted to go back, you and John Furrier
have done so many of the KubeCons, but go back
to DockerCon before Kubernetes was even a thing.
And so you sort of saw this grow.
I think there's what, how many projects are in CNCF now?
I mean >> Hundreds.
>> Hundreds, okay.
And so you're, will we hear things in Detroit,
things like new projects like Argo,
and capabilities around Sig store and things like that?
Were you going to hear a lot about that,
or is it just too much to cover in one event?
>> So I mean, the good news, Dave,
is that the CNCF really is a good steward
for this community and new things got in get in.
So there's so much going on
with the existing projects that some
of the new ones sometimes have a little bit
of a harder time making a little bit of buzz.
One of the more interesting ones is a project
that's been around for a while
that I think back to the first couple of KubeCons
that John and I did, service mesh in Isteo,
which was created by Google, but lived under basically a,
I guess you would say a Google dominated governance
for a number of years is now
finally under the CNCF Foundation.
So I talked to a number of companies over the years
and definitely many of the contributors over the years
that didn't love that it was a Google-run thing.
And now it is finally a part,
so just like Kubernetes is, we have Isteo
and also K native that I mentioned before
also came out of Google and those are all in the CNCF.
So will there be new projects? Yes.
The CNCF is sometimes they do matchmaking.
So in some of the observability space
there were a couple of projects that they said,
"Hey maybe you can go merge down the road."
And they ended up doing that.
So there's still, you look at all of these projects
and if I was an end user saying, "Oh my God,"
there is so much change and so many projects,
you know I can't spend the time
and the effort to learn about all of these.
And that's one of the challenges
and something obviously at Red Hat, we spend a lot of time
figuring out, not to make winners
but which are the things that customers need?
Where can we help make them run in production
for our customers and help bring some stability
and a little bit of security for the overall ecosystem.
>> Well speaking of security, security and skill sets.
We've talked about those two things
and they sort of go hand in hand.
When I go to security events,
I mean, we're at Reinforced last summer
we were just recently at the CrowdStrike event.
A lot of the discussion is sort of best practice
because it's so complicated,
and will you, I presume you're going to hear a lot of that here
because securing Containers now, you know
the whole shift left thing and shield right
is a complicated matter, especially when, and you saw
with the earlier data from the Red Hat survey
the gaps are around skill sets.
People don't have the skill.
So should we expect to hear a lot about that?
A lot of sort of how to take advantage
of some of these new capabilities?
>> Yeah, Dave, absolutely.
So, you know, one of the conversations going on
in the community right now is, has DevOps maybe
played out as we expect to see it?
There's a newer term called platform engineering
and how much do I need to do there?
Something that I know your team's written a lot about, Dave,
is how much do you need to know,
versus what can you shift to just a platform
or a service that I can consume?
I've talked a number of times with you since I've been
at Red Hat about the cloud services that we offer.
So you want to use our offering in the public cloud.
Our first recommendation is, hey, we've got cloud services.
How much Kubernetes do you really want to learn
versus you want to do what you can build on top of it,
modernize the pieces and have less running the plumbing
and electric and more, you know, taking advantage
of the technologies there.
So that's a big thing we've seen,
we've got a big SRE team that can manage that for you
so that you have to spend less time
worrying about what really is undifferentiated
heavy lifting and spend more time on
what's important to your business and your customers.
>> And that's, and that's through a managed service.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> That whole space has just taken off.
All right, Stu I'll give you the final word.
You know, what are you excited about
for this upcoming event, and Detroit?
Interesting choice of venue.
>> Yeah, look, first of all. >> Easy flight.
>> I've never been to Detroit,
so I'm willing to give it a shot
and hopefully, you know. >> Awesome airport.
>> There's some good things there to learn.
The show itself is really a choose your own adventure
because there's so much going on.
The main show of KubeCon and Cloud Native Con
is Wednesday through Friday, but a lot of the
really interesting stuff happens on Monday and Tuesday.
So we talked about things like OpenShift Commons,
in the security space there's cloud Native Security Day
which is actually two days and a SIG store event.
There's a get up show, there's Knative day.
There's so many things that,
if you want to go deep on a topic, you can go spend
like a workshop in some of those you can get hands on to.
And then at the show itself, there's so much, and again
you can learn from your peers.
So it was good to see, we had during the pandemic
it tilted a little bit more vendor-heavy
because I think most practitioners were pretty busy,
focused on what they could work on and less, okay, hey
I'm going to put together a presentation and
maybe I'm restricted to going to a show.
>> Yeah, not travel.
>> We definitely saw that last year when I went to LA,
I was disappointed how few customer sessions there were.
It's back when I go look through the schedule now
there's way more end users sharing their stories
and it's phenomenal to see that.
And the hallway track, Dave, I didn't go to Valencia
but I hear it was really hopping, felt way more
like it was pre-pandemic.
And while there's a few people that probably won't come
because Detroit, we think there's, what we've heard
and what I've heard from the CNCF team is they are expecting
a sizable group up there.
I know a lot of the hotels right near
where it's being held are all sold out.
So it should be a lot of fun.
Good thing I'm speaking on an edge panel.
First time I get to be a speaker at the show, Dave,
it's kind interesting to be a little bit
of a different role at the show, so.
>> Yeah, Detroit's super convenient, as I said.
Awesome airports too. Good luck at the show.
So it's a full week.
theCUBE will be there for three days,
Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday. Thanks for coming.
>> Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
>> Sorry, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is theCUBE, right.
So thank you for that.
>> And no ties from the host
>> No ties, only hoodies.
All right Stu, thanks.
Appreciate you coming in. >> Awesome.
And thank you for watching this preview of KubeCon
plus Cloud Native Con with @Stu,
which again starts the 24th of October,
three days of broadcasting.
Go to thecube.net and you can see all the action.
We'll see you there.
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