♪♪ >> Stephen: THERE YOU GO!
HEARING!
WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) LADIES AND GENTLEMEN -- THERE
YOU GO.
THERE YOU GO.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FIRST GUEST THIS EVENING IS CNN'S
CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, AND THE
HOST OF THE PODCAST "CHASING LIFE."
HE HAS JUST WRITTEN A NEW BOOK, "WORLD WAR C: LESSONS FROM THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND HOW TO PREPARE FOR THE NEXT ONE."
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW," DR. SANJAY GUPTA!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ♪♪
>> Stephen: NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
THANKS FOR COMING BACK.
>> WHAT A PLEASURE.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> Stephen: FOURTH TIME IN ABOUT 18 MONTHS.
YOU WERE MY GUEST WHEN WE HAD TO BUG OUT MARCH OF 2020 WHEN THERE
WAS NO AUDIENCE, JUST YOU AND ME AND I THINK JON ON STAGE.
I'VE REALLY BEEN GRATEFUL FOR YOU COMING BACK EVER SO OFTEN TO
TELL US WHERE WE ARE AND ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE,
WHEN YOU WERE HERE IN JUNE, WELL, FELT LIKE THINGS WERE
GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: AND RIGHT NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT DIRECTION WE'RE
GOING IN.
I'M A LITTLE TURNED AROUND BECAUSE I KNEW DELTA WOULD COME
IN.
WHAT'S GOING ON?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT IS HARD AND THERE'S A GREAT AMOUNT OF
HUMILITY YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN TRYING TO PREDICT WHERE
THINGS ARE GOING, BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS WE'RE IN THE STORM
OF VIRUS.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T SEE THE VIRUS.
IF YOU COULD SEE IT, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF VIRUS OUT THERE
IN THE COMMUNITY.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF POSITIVE INDICATORS AS WELL.
THERE ARE SOME CLEAR SKIES AHEAD.
NUMBERS ARE FALLING.
>> Stephen: THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE I HAD HEARD SOME
PROJECTIONS IN LATE AUGUST, I HAD HEARD THAT BASICALLY BY THE
FIRST WEEK OF OCTOBER WE WOULD SEE A MARKED CHANGE, THERE WOULD
BE A MAJOR DROPOFF IN INFECTION RATES.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: IS THAT HAPPENING?
WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THAT.
I'VE OFTEN THOUGHT ABOUT THE COUNTRY AS MY OWN PATIENT,
THAT'S JUST HOW I THINK ABOUT THINGS, AND I THINK IF I WAS
TALKING TO THE FAMILY OF THE PATIENT, I WOULD SAY THE PATIENT
IS STILL IN THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT, BUT WE ARE GETTING READY
TO MAYBE MOVE THE PATIENT OUT OF THE I.C.U. ON TO THE GENERAL
CARE FLOOR.
POSITIVE INDEPENDENCE CARES, PATIENT RATES AND
HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE COMING DOWN.
FROM LOOKING AT OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD AND
HISTORICALLY, THAT AFTER THIS SURGE WE'RE IN NOW -- IT'S BEEN
REALLY TOUGH -- BUT AFTER THIS SURGE, USUALLY IT FLATTENS OUT
AND HOPEFULLY IT STAYS DOWN.
>> Stephen: IF I HAVE BEEN VACCINATED, WHICH I HAVE, I'M
FULLY VACCINATED, AND I GET A CASE -- LET'S SAY I GET A
BREAKTHROUGH CASE -- WHAT IS MY VIRAL LOAD COMPARED TO SOMEONE
WHO GETS IT AND IS NOT VACCINATED.
DO WE HAVE SIMILAR VIRAL LOADS?
>> YOU CAN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.
LET ME REMIND YOU OF ONE THING, THOUGH, YOUR CHANCE OF GETTING
INFECTED BECAUSE YOU'RE VACCINATED EVEN A BREAKTHROUGH
INFECTION IS MUCH MUCH LOWER THAN AN UNVACCINATED PERSON,
ABOUT EIGHT TO TEN TIMES LOWER.
IF YOU DO CARRY THE VIRUS, YOU COULD DEVELOP ENOUGH VIRUS IN
YOUR NOSE AND MOUTH FOR A PERIOD OF TIME THAT IS SIMILAR TO AN
UNVACCINATED PERSON.
>> Stephen: SO I COULD BE CONTAGIOUS.
>> BUT IT COMES DOWN MUCH FASTER AS WELL.
SO AN UNVACCINATED PERSON COULD BE CONTAINS FOR SEVEN TO TEN
DAYS WHEREAS, FOR YOU, IT MIGHT BE TWO TO THREE DAYS.
>> Stephen: HARDER TO GET, MUCH LESS LIKELY TO PASS ON.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Stephen: I SAW AN INTERVIEW YOU DID WITH A NURSE WHO DECIDED
NOT TO GET THE VACCINE, ONE OVERSEVERAL NURSES YOU WERE
PROFILING THERE.
WHAT IS THE BEST RATIONALE -- OR RATHER WHAT IS THE RATIONALE
YOU'RE HEARING FROM HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS, DOCTORS AND
NURSES DECIDING NOT TO GET IT?
BECAUSE I HAVE SOME LOVED ONES IN MY LIFE WHO HAVE TRIED TO
CONVINCE TO GET IT AND SAY I JUST CARE ABOUT YOU, I'M SURE
YOU'RE DOING YOUR OWN RESEARCH, AS YOU SAY, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE
WHAT IT IS BECAUSE I SEE NO LEGITIMATE RESEARCH SAYING THAT
THIS ISN'T THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
WHAT RATIONALE ARE YOU GETTING FROM HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS?
>> TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH YOU, THERE ARE TIMES I'VE SAT IN
MY BASEMENT AND LITERALLY SCREAMED AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS.
IT'S HARD TO FATHOM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS IS AVAILABLE AND IT
COULD REALLY HELP END THIS COLLECTIVE TRAUMA WE HAVE BEEN
GOING THROUGH, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS HEALTHCARE WORKERS ARE
SUBJECTED TO THE SAME IDEOLOGICAL PRESSURES AS
EVERYBODY ELSE.
IT TRACKS WHAT THE VACCINE HESITANCY IN THE POPULATION, 20
TO 30%.
QUICKLY, STEPHEN, I HAVE THIS GUY WHO CAME BY TO FIX THE
AIR-CONDITIONING THE OTHER DAY, MID 70s, WORE A MASK, FIXED
THE AIR CONDITIONING.
HE APPARENTLY KNEW WHO I WAS.
HE SAID, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION?
I SAID, SURE.
HE SAID, SHOULD I GET A VACCINE?
I SAID, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
HE SAID THE REASON I ASK IS I HAVE A STENT IN MY LEG AND I
THOUGHT IT WOULD CAUSE BLOOD CLOTTING AND I WONDERED IF THAT
WAS A PROBLEM.
I SAID, RIGHT, THAT WAS A PROBLEM IN THE VACCINES BUT
YOU'RE 80 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP BLOOD CLOTS FROM THE
DISEASE THAN THE VACCINE.
HE SAID I APPRECIATE IT, THE REASON I ASK IS MY DAUGHTER LAST
WEEK FROM COVID.
BUT I HAVE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT THE CLOTTING THING AND MY DOCTOR
HASN'T CALLED ME BACK AND YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON I SAW SO I'M
ASKING YOU.
IT BROKE MY HEART.
I THINK THERE'S A TENDENCY TO SAY THOSE ANTI-VAXXERS, THERE
ARE SOME STARTING SHI...
BUT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AND I HOPE
WE REACH THOSE FOLKS.
>> Stephen: HAVE YOU GOTTEN A BOOSTER?
>> I HAVEN'T.
THE BOOSTERS ARE RECOMMENDED FOR PEOPLE OVER 65 AROUND IF YOU
HAVE PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.
THERE MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE ULTIMATELY THEY WILL RECOMMEND
IT MORE WIDELY BUT FOR NOW I'M HAPPY I GOT THE VACCINE, THE
VACCINE WORKS REALLY WELL.
>> Stephen: DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE AROUND THREE MONTHS FROM
NOW THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, YEAH, EVERYBODY.
>> I DON'T KNOW, FELLS.
IN A WAY, WE KIND OF GOT BOOSTED.
WE GOT THE TWO SHOTS SEPARATED, AND IF THE PROTECTION CONTINUES
TO BE AS GOOD AS IT IS, I THINK THAT THERE MAY NOT BE A NEED.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.
WHEN WE COME BACK, I WILL ASK SANJAY HOW WE CAN BECOME
PANDEMIC-PROOF.
STICK AROUND.