>> Chris: STEVE HARRIGAN
REPORTING LIVE FROM SYRIA,
THANK YOU.
JOINING US NOW, THE SECRETARY OF
DEFENSE, MARK ESPER, FOR HIS
FIRST SUNDAY SHOW APPEARANCE,
WELCOME TO "FOX NEWS SUNDAY" ."
>> Secretary Esper: CHRIS,
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON
TODAY.
>> Chris: HAVE TO ASSUME
YOU'RE JUST AS DISTRESSED AS I
AM BY HEARING STEVE HARRIGAN'S
REPORT, STORY THAT
TURKISH-BACKED MILITIAS ARE
EXECUTING CIVILIANS AND KURDISH
FIGHTERS, REPORTS THAT THE TURKS
ARE HITTING PRISONS AND HUNDREDS
OF EITHER ISIS FIGHTERS OR THEIR
SUPPORTERS ARE ESCAPING.
HOW MUCH OF THAT CAN YOU
CONFIRM?
>> Secretary Esper: IT'S
TERRIBLE, I'VE HEARD THE SAME
REPORTS.
IT GETS WORSE BY THE HOUR.
THESE ARE ALL THE EXACT THINGS
THAT WE HAVE COMMUNICATED TO
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN AND HIS
MINISTERS.
I SPOKE TO MY COUNTERPART A FEW
DAYS AGO.
I SENT HIM A MEMO ON FRIDAY
NIGHT, GAVE THEM A FORMAL
RESPONSE, WARNS THEM THAT IF
THEY DO THIS INCURSION, WHICH WE
OPPOSE, WILL SEE EVERYTHING FROM
THE RELEASE OF ISIS PRISONERS TO
A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE.
IT WILL DAMAGE U.S. RELATIONS
WITH TURKEY.
ALL OF THIS IS PLAYING OUT
EXACTLY AS WE PREDICTED AND WE
AGAIN URGE PRESIDENT ERDOGAN TO
STOP AND GO BACK TO THE
STATUS QUO.
>> Chris: SO WHAT IS THE
U.S. -- WHAT IS THE PENTAGON, AS
THE PRIMARY MILITARY FORCE
THERE, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO
ABOUT IT?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO STOP
THIS?
>> Secretary Esper: THIS IS
PART OF THE TERRIBLE SITUATION
THAT TURKEY HAS PUT US IN AN
DESPITE OUR PROTESTATIONS WE NOW
KNOW THAT THE TURKS NOW INTEND
TO GO FURTHER SOUTH THAN
ORIGINALLY EXPECTED ENTER GO
BOTH WEST AND EAST, WHICH WOULD
INCREASE THEIR ZONE FROM BEYOND
A 30-KILOMETER DEPTH AND NEARLY
440 KILOMETERS WIDE.
AT THE SAME TIME WAS LEARNED IN
THE LAST 24 HOURS IT LOOKS LIKE
THE STF IS CUTTING A DEAL WITH
THE SYRIANS AND RUSSIANS --
>> Chris: WE SHOULD SAY STF
OVER THOSE OF THE SYRIAN
DEMOCRACY FORCES.
>> Secretary Esper: DEFENSE
FORCES, THAT'S RIGHT.
THEY ARE CUTTING A DEAL AND NOW
WE'RE FACING AS U.S. FORCES IN A
TRAP BETWEEN A SYRIAN RUSSIAN
ARMY MOVING NORTH TO TAKE ON THE
TURKISH ARMY THAT IS MOVING
SOUTH.
IT PUTS US IN A TERRIBLE
POSITION AND THE PROTECTION AND
SAFETY OF OUR SERVICE MEMBERS
COMES FIRST TO ME.
I SPOKE WITH THE NATIONAL
SECURITY TEAM YESTERDAY.
WE ALL TALKED ON THE PHONE.
I'VE TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT AND
HE IS CONCERNED AND SO LAST
NIGHT HE DIRECTED THAT WE BEGIN
A DELIBERATE WITHDRAWAL OF U.S.
FORCES FROM THE NORTHERN PART OF
SYRIA.
>> Chris: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE
WE TALKING ABOUT?
HOW QUICKLY ARE THEY GOING TO
MOVE OUT?
>> Secretary Esper: WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT LESS THAN A
THOUSAND.
I CAN'T GIVE A TIMELINE BECAUSE
IT CHANGES HOURLY.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO
SO IN A VERY SAFE, DELIBERATE
MANNER, THAT WE DECONFLICT
THINGS AS WE GO WITH THOSE FOLKS
ON THE GROUND AND IMMEDIATE
AREA.
>> Chris: I'M NOT QUITE SURE I
UNDERSTAND.
SO THE TURKS AND THEIR MILITIAS
ARE COMMITTING ATROCITIES
AGAINST THE KURDS, WHO ARE OUR
ALLIES.
THE KURDS ARE ASKING US FOR
HELP, BUT WE ARE GOING TO PULL
OUT AND ALLOW THE KURDS TO GO TO
THE RUSSIANS AND THE SYRIANS?
THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE MUCH
SENSE.
SPEECH OF THE UNITED STATES,
FIRST OF ALL, DOESN'T HAVE THE
FORCES ON HAND TO STOP AN
INVASION OF TURKEY THAT IS 15,00
STRONG, IF YOU WILL, PRECEDED
BY AIR STRIKES AND MORE I DON'T
LIKE ARTILLERY.
GOT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE
DIDN'T SIGN UP TO FIGHT TURKEY,
A LONG-STANDING NATO ALLY ON
BEHALF OF THE SDF.
THIS IS A TERRIBLE SITUATION,
THAT'S WHY IN A LITTLE OVER TWO
MONTHS I'VE BEEN ON THE JOB,
THIS IS PROBABLY IN THE NUMBER
ONE ISSUE THAT I'VE DEALT WITH
WEEK AFTER WEEK WITH OUR TURKISH
COUNTERPARTS.
WE DID EVERYTHING WE CAN TO
DISSUADE THEM FROM DOING THIS.
WE THOUGHT WE WERE MAKING VERY
GOOD PROGRESS ON THE SO-CALLED
"SAFETY ZONE" IN NORTHERN SYRIA,
A WAY TO KEEP THE FORCES
SEPARATED AND ENSURE THAT WE CAN
KEEP BOTH OF THESE GOOD PARTNERS
AT ODDS AND ENDS, BUT AS YOU
KNOW, CHRIS, THIS CONFLICT HAS
ITS ROOTS THAT GO BACK 200 YEARS
AND IN FACT IN THE LAST FEW
YEARS, SINCE WE BEGAN WITH THIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COURAGE TO
TAKE ON ISIS, THE TURKS
PROTESTED IT FROM THE BEGINNING.
THIS IS NOW THE THIRD INCURSION
INTO SYRIA IN THE LAST FEW YEARS
TO DO THIS.
>> Chris: BUT YOU EMPHASIZED
ON FRIDAY THAT WE STAND BY OUR
KURDISH ALLIES, WHO FOUGHT WITH
US, DIED -- 11,000 OF THEM DIED
IN THE FIGHT AGAINST ISIS, HERE
YOU ARE, SIR, ON FRIDAY.
>> WE HAVE NOT ABANDONED THE
KURDS.
IT LET ME BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
WE'VE NOT ABANDON AND NOBODY
AGREEMENT OF THIS OPERATION WERE
TURKEY, JUST THE OPPOSITE.
WE PUSHED BACK VERY HARD AT ALL
LEVELS FOR THE TURKS NOT TO
COMMENCE THIS OPERATION.
>> Chris: BUT SECRETARY, THE
U.S. HAS 50 SPECIAL OPERATIONS
FORCES ALONG THE BORDER ACTING
AS A TRIPWIRE, IF YOU WILL, TO
KEEP THE TURKS FROM COMING
ACROSS THE BORDER.
WE WERE THE PROTECTION FOR THE
KURDS.
AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP TALKED TO
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN LAST SUNDAY,
PRESIDENT TRUMP DECIDED TO PULL
THOSE TROOPS OUT AND THE TURKS
INVADED.
ISN'T THAT THE DEFINITION OF
ABANDONING THE KURDS?
>> Secretary Esper: I THINK
YOU'VE GOT THE SEQUENCING IN THE
REVERSE ORDER.
IN THE ORDER THAT WE'VE
UNDERSTOOD, I'VE UNDERSTOOD FOR
MY COUNTERPART, SECRETARY POMPEO
FROM HIS AND CERTAINLY FROM
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN, THEY ARE
FULLY COMMITTED TO DOING THIS,
REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DID.
WE THOUGHT IT WAS PRUDENT, IT
WAS MY RECOMMENDATION.
AND OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT
CHIEF OF STAFF AGREED AS WELL,
WE SHOULD NOT PUT U.S. FORCES IN
BETWEEN THEM TURKISH ADVANCE.
WE ARE TALKING LESS THAN 50,
MORE LIKE TWO DOZEN.
THERE IS NO WAY THEY COULD STOP
15,000 TURKS FROM PROCEEDING
SOUTH.
>> Chris: WHAT YOU HAVE TALKED
TO YOUR COUNTERPART, THE TURKISH
DEFENSE MINISTER, SEVERAL DAYS
BEFORE THE PRESIDENTIAL PHONE
CALL AND YOU HAD SAID TO HIM
LET'S MAKE THE SAFETY ZONE WORK,
WHERE THE TURKS IN THE U.S. WORK
TOGETHER TO KEEP THIS BORDER AND
KEEP THE TURKS ON ONE SIDE OF
THE BORDER AND THE KURDS ON THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER.
THEN THE PRESIDENT HAS HIS PHONE
CALL WITH PRESIDENT ERDOGAN AND
YOU SAY THERE'S NOTHING WE COULD
DO.
ONE, DID ERDOGAN SAY "I'M GOING
TO COME IN ANYWAY," YES OR NO?
>> Secretary Esper: IT WAS
CLEAR TO ME THAT
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN WAS COMMITTED
TO COMING IN.
HE INFORMED US THAT HE WAS
COMING IN.
HE DIDN'T ASK PERMISSION.
IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT HE WAS
COMING IN.
>> Chris: BUT DO YOU THINK
WITH 50 U.S. TROOPS ON THE
BORDER ACTING AS A TRIPWIRE, AND
WITH U.S. COMPLETE AIR
SUPERIORITY OVER THE BORDER, DO
YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN AND THE TURKS
WERE GOING TO JUST COME THROUGH
THE BORDER, PERHAPS CREATE A
CONFLICT WITH THE UNITED STATES,
IF WE HAD STOOD FIRM?
>> Secretary Esper: I THINK
IT'S HOW YOU DEFINE STANDING
FIRM.
FIRST OF ALL, AS I SAID, 50
SERVICE MEMBERS ARE NOT GOING TO
STOP A TURKISH ADVANCE.
LET ME FINISH.
TO CLASSIFY THEM AS A TRIPWIRE
AND SACRIFICE THEM, IF YOU
WILL --
>> Chris: YOU ONLY SACRIFICE
THEM IF TURKEY GOES AHEAD, SIR,
IF TURKEY SAYS "WE ARE NOT GOING
TO TAKE ON THE WEST, WE ARE NOT
GOING TO TAKE ON U.S. FIGHTERS
OVERHEAD," MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE
STOPPED THEM.
>> Secretary Esper: I DON'T
BELIEVE SO.
I THINK THEY WERE FULLY
COMMITTED.
FROM WHAT I TOOK FOR MY
CONVERSATIONS WITH MIKE ON HER
PART, THE CHAIRMAN OF JOINTS
DEEP DOMAIN CHIEF OF STAFF TO
FURNACE, SECRETARY PALMDALE FROM
HIS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO
WORLD, ANOTHER WAR IN THE
MIDDLE EAST AGAINST TURKEY,
WHICH IS A LONG-STANDING NATO
ALLY THAT IS FOUGHT ALONGSIDE US
FROM KOREA ALL THE WAY THROUGH
AFGHANISTAN.
THAT'S NOT WHAT WE SIGNED UP FO
FOR.
>> Chris: DO THEY SEEM LIKE
MUCH OF AN ALLY NOW, TURKEY?
>> Secretary Esper: NO, I
THINK THE ARC OF THEIR BEHAVIOR
OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS HAS
BEEN TERRIBLE.
I MEAN, THEY ARE SPINNING OUT OF
THE WESTERN ORBIT, IF YOU WILL.
WE SEE THEM PURCHASING RUSSIAN
ARMS, CUDDLING UP TO
PRESIDENT PUTIN.
WE SEE THEM DOING ALL THE THINGS
THAT FRANKLY CONCERN US WITH
REGARD TO THE DIRECTION YOU'RE
HEADING.
>> Chris: BUT YOU SAY IT
CONCERNS US.
IF THE REACTION IS THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS GOING TO PULL ALL
OF OUR TROOPS OUT OF THAT REGION
AND ALTHOUGH HE HAS TALKED ABOUT
SANCTIONS AND AUTHORIZED
SECRETARY STEVEN MNUCHIN TO INFO
SECTIONS, THERE'S BEEN NO
ACTION.
>> Secretary Esper: ALL OF
THESE DEVELOPERS HAVE HAPPENED
IN THE LAST 21, THE LAST 14
HOURS IF YOU WILL.
WE STILL HAVE BEEN HOLDING OUT
HOPE THAT WE CAN GET TO ERDOGAN
AND TELL HIM TO STOP WHAT HE'S
DOING, RETURNED TO THE BORDER,
AND LET'S WORK ON THE SAFETY
ZONE, THE MECHANISM.
THOSE TALKS, ARE STILL UNDERWAY,
RIGHT NOW.
WE WANT TO GET THIS AND
STABILIZE IT.
>> Chris: WHAT YOU SAY TO THE
HEAD OF THE SDF, OUR ALLIES, THE
PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT AND DIED TO
HELP US BEAT ISIS.
THE HEAD OF THE KURDISH ARMY
SAID TODAY YOU ARE LEAVING US TO
BE SLAUGHTERED.
WHAT YOU SAY TO HIM, SIR?
>> Secretary Esper: I WOULD
SAY WHAT WE BEEN SAYING, BECAUSE
WE STAY IN CONTACT.
WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO
GET THE TURKS TO STOP THIS
EGREGIOUS BEHAVIOR, GET THEM TO
GO BACK ACROSS THE LINE AND STOP
AND THAT'S OUR MESSAGE TO THEM
AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
>> Chris: PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS
THAT HE IS JUST KEEPING A
CAMPAIGN PROMISE.
HERE HE IS.
>> WE WANT TO BRING OUR TROOPS
BACK HOME AND I GOT ELECTED ON
THAT.
IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT OUR
SPEECHES, I WOULD SAY WE WANT TO
BRING OUR TROOPS BACK HOME FROM
THESE ENDLESS WARS.
>> Chris: UP BUT, WHILE WE ARE
IN THE PROCESS OF PULLING TROOPS
AT LEAST BACK IN SYRIA, MAYBE
NOT OUT OF SYRIA, ALTHOUGH THE
PRESIDENT HAS TALKED ABOUT THAT,
YOU JUST ANNOUNCED ON FRIDAY THE
PRESIDENT IS GOING TO SEND
ANOTHER 1800 TROOPS INTO
SAUDI ARABIA.
SO ARE WE TRYING TO GET OUT OF
THE MIDDLE EAST?
ARE WE TRYING TO GET OUT OF
ENDLESS WARS OR NOT?
>> Secretary Esper: WE DO HAVE
THE ASPIRATION TO RELOCATE OUR
FORCES, TO MOVE BACK IN CERTAIN
REGIONS OF THE WORLD SO THAT WE
CAN REPOSITION THEM TO DEAL WITH
THE REAL STRATEGIC CHALLENGES WE
FACE, NUMBER ONE IN CHINA, AND
NUMBER TWO, RUSSIA.
WITH IRAN WE KNOW THEIR MALIGN
BEHAVIOR OF THE LAST 40 YEARS
CONTINUES TO CREATE INSTABILITY
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE
MIDDLE EAST TO INCLUDE NORTHERN
SYRIA, SO IN THAT REGARD, WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE
SUFFICIENT FORCES ON THE GROUND,
FIRST TO HELP DEFEND OUR
PARTNERS, SAUDI ARABIA AND THE
UAE, AND SECONDLY TO DETER
FURTHER IRANIAN PROVOCATIVE
BEHAVIOR THAT COULD LEAD TO A
CONFLICT.
WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO A CONFLICT
IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NOT WITH
IRAN, BUT AS I SAID TO THEM,
THEY SHOULD NOT MISTAKE OUR
RESTRAINT FOR WEAKNESS.
IF THEY DO, AND DO SOMETHING
THAT WOULD STRIKE OUR INTERESTS
OR OUR ALLIES, WE WILL RESPOND.
>> Chris: 2 MINUTES LEFT, I
WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT
ARCH OBJECT I'M SURE YOU'RE
DYING TO TALK ABOUT,
IMPEACHMENT.
HOUSE DEMOCRATS HAVE SUBPOENAED
YOU PERSONALLY, YOU WAS THE
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, TURN OVER
ALL DOCUMENTS RELATED TO THE
DECISION BEING MADE ABOUT
AUTHORIZATION AND THE DECISION
TO WITHHOLD MILITARY AID TO
UKRAINE.
WILL YOU COMPLY BY THE DEADLINE
FOR THE HOUSE SUBPOENA, WHICH IS
THIS TUESDAY, TWO DAYS FROM
TODAY?
>> Secretary Esper: WE WILL DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO RESPOND TO
THEIR INQUIRY.
MY GENERAL COUNSEL OR A WEEK OR
TWO AGO SENT OUT A NOTICE, WE
OFTEN DO IN THESE SITUATIONS, TO
THE KEY MEMBERS IN THE PENTAGON
TO SAY RETAINER DOCUMENTS AND
INSTITUTE OTHER CONTROLS.
SO AGAIN, WE WILL RESPOND AS WE
CAN.
>> Chris: YOU SAY WE WILL
RESPOND AS WE CAN, YOU'RE NOT
MAKING A FIRM COMMITMENT YOU
WILL MEET THE DEADLINE?
>> Secretary Esper: I DON'T
KNOW THE STATUS OF WHAT THAT
DOCUMENT PREPARATION IS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT RESTRICTIONS
THEY WILL HAVE INTERNALLY.
AT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS A SAY ON
THE RELEASE OF DOCUMENTS AS
WELL.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS
THAT PLAY INTO THIS.
>> Chris: FINALLY, LAST
MAY THE PRESIDENT'S PHONE CALL
WITH ZELINSKI WAS IN JULY, TWO
MONTHS BEFORE THE UNDER
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE CERTIFIED
TO
CONGRESS THAT UKRAINE HAD MADE
MAJOR EFFORTS IN FIGHTING
CORRUPTION AND CERTIFIED TO
CONGRESS THAT THE PENTAGON WAS
IN FACT GOING TO RELEASE ALL
MILITARY AID THAT HAVE BEEN
APPROVED BY CONGRESS TO THE
UKRAINIANS.
DID PRESIDENT TRUMP EVER EXPLAIN
TO YOU WHY HE HAD DECIDED TO GO
AGAINST THE PENTAGON'S DECISION
AND HOLD UP THE AID?
>> Secretary Esper: CHRIS, I
HAVE NOTHING TO SHARE WITH YOU
ON THIS.
AS YOU KNOW, I CAME INTO OFFICE
IN LATE JULY AND SINCE THAT
TIME, AS WE LOOK AT THIS ISSUE
PERIODICALLY, THE DOD'S FOCUS
HAS BEEN ON THREE THINGS.
WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE, THE
VALUE OF THE AID TO UKRAINE TO
DETER RUSSIAN BEHAVIOR AND
DEFEND THEMSELVES.
NUMBER TWO, ARE THEY MAKING
PROGRESS ON CORRUPTION, WHICH IS
OF KEY INTEREST TO THE CONGRESS,
AND THEN NUMBER THREE, HOW ARE
WE GETTING OTHER NATO ALLIES,
EUROPEAN PARTNERS, TO ALSO HELP
ASSIST THE UKRAINIANS?
THE KEY POINT IS THIS, WE GOT