William: It's been almost two
months since the international
criminal court issued arrest
warrants for Russian president
Vladimir Putin and the official
in charge of Moscow's campaign
of stealing children from
Ukraine.
Kyiv is demanding more
international support to pursue
Russian leadership.
Nick schifrin spoke with the top
Biden administration official
who's responsible for global
criminal justice about her
efforts the roadblocks within
, the American government and
, the chances of holding Putin
and his high command
accountable.
Nick: In this war, death comes
at night as an apartment complex
slept last month.
The death comes en masse as
Russia stole dignity from the
dead and reduced cities to
rubble.
And the killers are also
thieves.
Kidnapped Ukrainian children
paraded in Moscow, forced to hug
of duck there's.
>> This is a manifest violation
of the U.N. Charter that has
lead to systemic war crimes,
crimes against humanity across
all areas where Russian troops
are deployed.
Nick: That is the U.S.
Ambassador at large for global
criminal justice.
>> We need to send a strong,
concerted, unified international
message that one cannot simply
invade a sovereign neighbor in
an effort to subjugate that
neighbor and wipe them off the
planet.
>> The international criminal
court has issued warrants of
arrest.
Nick: The most prominent
mechanism of justice is in the
Hague, which in March issued
warrants for war crimes
allegedly committed by Russian
president Vladimir Putin
so-called commission for
children's rights.
>> Systematically practiced
torture and rape.
Nick: The U.N. Prosecutor
general is leading the pursuit
to close of 80 -- close to
80,000 claims of war crimes
direction soldiers in Ukraine.
Ukraine's president wants
Russia's leadership to be
punished for its initial
decision to wage war.
>> Only one institution is
capable of responding to the
original crime, the crime of
aggression.
A tribunal.
Nick: The crime of aggression
was created in the nuremberg and
Tokyo military tribunals after
World War II and has not been
prosecuted in international
court since.
Russia is not an icc member so
Ukraine to man's a special
tribunal that could pursue
Putin, authorized by the U.N.
General assembly.
>> Not a compromise that will
allow partitions.
The case is allegedly done.
But a true, full-fledged
tribunal and full justice.
Nick: That's direct criticism of
a U.S. And western European
proposal.
A Ukrainian court supported by
international staff, money and
intelligence with no un
authorization.
>> We don't have access to the
security council.
Russia will predictably exercise
its veto on any effort to create
a standalone tribunal.
In the past tribunals have
generally been established by
the security council.
If there are questions whether
the un charter empowers that.
Nick: Wouldn't it operate under
Ukrainian law and be stuck with
the rule a national court cannot
go after the head of state of
another country?
>> The vision is a court deeply
rooted in the Ukrainian national
system.
They will build dossiers against
all of those individuals in a
leadership capacity in a
position to design, execute the
crimes of aggression committed
in Ukraine.
This tribunal could accept those
indictments when the time was
right, to confirm those charges.
Nick: Does that suggest that
regardless of the format, you
don't see any accountability for
boudin until he is out of power?
>> In any scenario we have to
have custody of Putin to move
forward and that is extremely
unlikely.
Nick: The U.S. Also has a
practical problem.
Many countries in the global
south would not vote to
establish a tribunal in fact --
in part because they accuse the
U.S. Of double standards for
refusing to submit to icc
standards for the wars in Iraq
and Afghanistan.
>> Ukraine once the
international community's
backing wholeheartedly month to
come out of the resolution with
a weaker vote than 80 or 90
states would undercut
legitimacy.
>> The department of justice has
been great, department of
defense has been terrible.
Nick: The U.S. Can also help the
icc.
Janet -- senator Lindsey graham
and dick Durbin led the charge
to provide the icc with
intelligence, funding and
staffing for its Ukraine
investigations.
Why hasn't the administration
done that?
>> We are going how we can use
these new authorities from
congress.
It's a matter of working through
the details in the interagency
process.
Nick: Multiple U.S. Officials
tell us the defense department
rejects holding the soldiers
accountable with the worry they
could one day prosecute
U.S. Soldiers.
Last week after a meeting with
an icc prosecutor, Durbin accuse
the administration of
withholding evidence from the
icc.
>> Why is your department not
sharing evidence we have
gathered to help that effort?
>> I have concerns about
reciprocity going forward.
I remain concerned about the
protection of U.S. Military
personnel.
>> Got to ask -- I respect you
and I voted for you but I've got
to ask for more.
It's losses cooperate in you
refuse, what conclusion am I
supposed to draw?
>> We support the goal of
holding pressure accountable.
>> I have to ask you to prove it
by doing so.
You have drawn a personal
opposite conclusion and I think
it is frankly hurting the
efforts to hold Putin
accountable.
Nick: Last month, graham wrecked
a deputy general over the coals
for not complying with the new
law.
>> Is the department of defense
the holdup?
>> I know the department of
defense has long-standing
concerns about air engagement --
>> I don't care about their
concerns.
They can share them on the
books.
Do you feel like you need to
follow the law when you're told
to do it?
>> Yes, senator.
>> Ok, we will take this up with
the department of defense.
Nick: Should the department of
defense be worried about future
prosecutions if it drops its
resistance?
>> And think there's virtually
no equivalency or comparison to
what Russia has done here to
anything that might involve U.S.
Personnel are service members.
We have a full-scale war of
aggression committed through the
systematic and widespread
commission of war crimes and
crimes against humanity.
There is no comparison.
I don't see a concern that this
would set any sort of precedent
that would end up badly for the
United States.
Nick: The debate over icc
assistance and the special
tribunal continues as Ukraine
man's accountability and justice
for Russia's ongoing crimes.
For the pbs newshour, yam Nick
schifrin.
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