>>> BIG NEWS DAY WITH MUELLER'S INDICTMENTS.
BUT WE STILL DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS COLLUSION BETWEEN DONALD
TRUMP AND THE KREMLIN. WE DO KNOW A FORMER TRUMP
ADVISER LIED ABOUT HIS CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA, AND TRUMP'S PRESS
SECRETARY DOWNPLAYED THAT ROLE TODAY.
>> CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN WHAT GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS'S ROLE WITH
THE CAMPAIGN WAS? >> IT WAS EXTREMELY LIMITED.
IT WAS A VOLUNTEER POSITION. AND AGAIN, NO ACTIVITY WAS EVER
DONE IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY ON BEHALF OF THE CAMPAIGN IN THAT
REGARD. THAT.
>> CLAIM IS FALSE. PAPADOPOULOS JUST ADMITTED SOME
OF THE ACTIVITY, INCLUDING NOT ONLY THE CONTROVERSIAL RUSSIA
CONTACTS. THE PUBLIC RECORD ALSO SHOWS HIM
THE CENTER OF THIS HUDDLE DURING A CAMPAIGN EVENT WITH DONALD
TRUMP LITERALLY A FEW CHAIRS DOWN.
PAUL MANAFORT'S LAWYER BEGAN HIS DEFENSE TODAY, THOUGH, ON THE
COURTHOUSE STEPS. >> THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MR.
MANAFORT OR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN INCLUDED WITH THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT. THE CLAIM THAT MAINTAINING
OFFSHORE ACCOUNTS TO BRING ALL YOUR FUNDS INTO THE UNITED
STATES AS A SCHEME TO CONCEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT IS RIDICULOUS. >> I'M JOINED BY BETSY WOODRUFF,
POLITICAL REPORTER FOR DAILY BEAST WHO HAS BEEN BREAKING HER
SHARE OF STORIES HERE. AND BRIAN WICE WHO REPRESENTED
TOM DeLAY IN A CONSPIRACY IN MONEYLAUNDERING CRIMINAL DEFENSE
APPEAL. GO TO YOU, BRIAN.
WHAT IS THE BEST DEFENSE HERE FOR AT LEAST THESE TWO INDICTED
INDIVIDUALS TODAY? >> I HOPE YOU DON'T CANCEL MY
CAR SERVICE FOR SAYING THIS, BUT I SPENT LUNCH GOING THROUGH THE
31 PAGES AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH WHAT PASSES FOR
CREDIBLE DEFENSE. THIS IS NOT A MURDER CASE WHERE
THEFT OR CONSENT OR SECURITY CASE INVOLVING THE STATUTE OF
LIMITATIONS. THIS IS A CASE THAT TURNS ON A
MONEY TRAIL AND A PAPER TRAIL. AND THAT IS NOT A SITUATION
WHERE A GREAT LAWYER CAN BREAK DOWN A LYING COP OR A THIEVING
SNITCH. IN 38 YEARS OF PRACTICE, I'VE
NEVER SEEN ANY LAWYER BE ABLE TO BREAK DOWN AN E-MAIL OR A BANK
ROBBER AND GET THEM TO CONFESS THAT THEY'VE GOT IT WRONG.
>> YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS A PAPER CASE, NOT A PEOPLE CASE.
AND WHILE YOU CAN FIND OUT IN PEOPLE AND UNDERMINE THEM BEFORE
A JURY, WHEN THE PAPER IS STRONG, THAT'S MUCH HARDER.
I GUESS I GOT TO ASK YOU THE QUESTION, THEN.
DO YOU THINK THIS IS AN EVEN HARDER DEFENSE THAN THAT FOR TOM
DeLAY? >> IN DeLAY, ARI, WE HAD A
SITUATION WHERE BASICALLY NOBODY DISAGREED AS TO WHAT TOM DID.
THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE PROSECUTION OVERREACHED AND
CREATED A CRIME OUT OF A SERIES OF INNOCENT ACTS.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY WHAT THE COURT OF APPEALS FOUND IN
ACQUITTING TOM IS ASSUMING EVERYTHING THAT THE PROSECUTION
SAID WAS TRUE, IT DIDN'T CUTE CRIMINAL CONDUCT.
THAT IS NOT THIS CASE. AND IF THERE IS SUCH A THING AS
A TERM PAPER THAT FEELS LIKE AN A IN COLLEGE, THIS IS AN
INDICTMENT THAT FEELS LIKE A CONVICTION.
>> IT DOES FEEL LIKE A CONVICTION, WHICH IS STRIKING
COMING FROM YOU. I HAVE TO NOTE FROM YOU, BETSY,
THE GOOD LAWYER BRIAN IS DID NOT EXACTLY ANSWER THE QUESTION.
DID NOT WANT THE COMPARE HIS FORMER CLIENT DIRECTLY.
BUT BETSY, WHAT ARE WE HEARING ON THE LARGER DEFENSE OUT OF THE
TRUMP WORLD? >> THE FOLKS THEY HAVE SPOKEN TO
TODAY WHO HAVE IN THAT SPACE HAVE TAKEN A FAIRLY BULLISH TONE
WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
AND I THINK ONE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER HERE IS
THAT GIVEN THAT MANAFORT HAS BEEN INDICTED UNDER FARO, WHICH
IS THE LAWS PEOPLE FROM LOBBYING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT FROM THE
UNITED STATES, WE HAVEN'T HAD A SERIOUS FARA INDICTMENT I
BELIEVE IN DECADES. SO ONE THING WE'RE LIKELY TO
HEAR GOING FORWARD IS THIS IS A NOVEL INTERPRETATION OF THE WAY
THE STATUTE WORKS AND IT'S POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.
THAT'S A CASE WE CAN EXPECT MANAFORT'S DEFENSE TEAM TO MAKE
MY GUESS IS THAT THE LEGAL PROCESS HERE IS GOING TO BE
QUITE LONG, QUITE DRAWN OUT. POTENTIALLY EVEN CHARGES OF
PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT FROM THE DEFENSE.
THEY KNOW THEY'RE IN A CORNER. THEY KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE
TOUGH. >> BRIAN, CAN I ASK YOU A SILLY
QUESTION? >> ABSOLUTELY, ARI.
>> WOULD IT HELP PAUL MANAFORT IN COURT TO SAY REGARDLESS OF
WHAT HE IS ACCUSED OF, HE DOESN'T LIKE HILLARY CLINTON OR
SHE HAS DONE BAD THINGS? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD GET
HIM OFF? IT WOULD CHANGE.
IF THEY CHANGE VENUE TO THE HAMPTONS OR THE COAL COUNTRY OF
PENNSYLVANIA, YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE.
BUT I NOTICED IN THE CLIP YOU PLAYED BEFORE WE CAME ON OF
MANAFORT'S LAWYER ON THE COURTHOUSE STEPS.
YEAH, A COUPLE REALLY GOOD SOUND BITES.
BUT HE ADDRESSED PROBABLY 1/2 OF 1% OF THE ALLEGATIONS IN THIS
31-PAGE INDICTMENT. HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO BETTER
THAN RIDICULOUS BY WAY OF MOUNTING A CREDIBLE DEFENSE TO
THESE ALLEGATIONS, ARI. >> RIGHT.
AND TWEETING ABOUT CLINTON MAY BE A POLITICAL STRATEGY.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT TENDS TO MOVE THE JUDGES RUNNING THE
TRAPS OR THE JURORS MAKING TH