LIZ: COMMERCE OR COUNTRY?
THAT IS THE QUESTION ON TECH
GIANTS' MINDS BECAUSE 72 HOURS
AGO, A TALE OF TWO VERY
DIFFERENT CEOs UNFOLDED.
NEWS BROKE DURING OUR SHOW ON
MONDAY THAT AMAZON'S CEO JEFF
BEZOS TOLD THE CROWD AT THE
WIRED MAGAZINE CONFERENCE HE AND
AMAZON WILL ABSOLUTELY WORK WITH
THE U.S. MILITARY, THE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, THE
PENTAGON, IN ANY WAY THAT THEY
FEEL IS APPROPRIATE, PROCLAIMING
THAT IF BIG TECH COMPANIES ARE
GOING TO TURN THEIR BACKS ON THE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, THIS
COUNTRY IS GOING TO BE IN
TROUBLE.
GOOGLE'S CEO TAKING AN
ALTERNATIVE SLIGHTLY LESS
FOCUSED PATH HERE AFTER
SUSPENDING GOOGLE CONTRACTS WITH
THE U.S. MILITARY.
THE TECH TITAN SAYS IT'S
CONSIDERING A CENSORED SEARCH
ENGINE AT THE SAME TIME IN CHINA
WHICH LEADS US TO OUR NEXT
GUEST, WHOSE COMPANY HAS MANY A
CONTRACT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
DEFENSE.
SILICON VALLEY LEGEND KNOWN FOR
HIS COMBATIVE STANCE ON
PROTECTING U.S. TECHNOLOGY FROM
CHINA, T.J. RODGERS IS HERE.
T.J., WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF
AMAZON AND JEFF BEZOS' COMMENTS?
IS HE RIGHT?
IS THIS COUNTRY NOT WORTH
PROTECTING?
>> I LIKED WHAT HE SAID AND MY
OWN COMPANY AND I SUPPORTED THAT
POSITION.
HAVING SAID THAT, IF YOU WANT TO
GO BACK TO BASIC PRINCIPLES, I
BELIEVE THERE OUGHT TO BE A
STRONG DIVISION BETWEEN
CORPORATE AMERICA AND THE
GOVERNMENT.
I DON'T THINK COMPANIES SHOULD
BE POLITICIZING WHAT THEY DO ONE
WAY OR THE OTHER.
IF A COMPANY DECIDES TO -- GET
AWAY FROM DEFENSE FOR A MINUTE.
SOME COMPANIES SAY WE ARE GREEN,
WE ARE USING ALL RENEWABLE
ENERGY AND HAVE A SELLING POINT
AND GET CUSTOMERS FOR IT.
OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT NOT BUY THEIR
PRODUCT BECAUSE THEY SAY GREEN
WILL MAKE THEIR PRODUCT MORE
EXPENSIVE.
IT'S A CHOICE COMPANIES MAKE.
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND
OUR DEFENSE DEPARTMENT IS GOING
TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD
DURING THE REST OF MY LIFETIME,
WITH OR WITHOUT GOOGLE.
GOOGLE MAY HAVE RESERVATIONS
ABOUT THE PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY
INVOLVED WHICH IS FACE
RECOGNITION AND YOU CAN ONLY
IMAGINE IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE
GOVERNMENT KIND OF WATCHES
PEOPLE AND STARTS TAKING AWAY
PERSONAL PRIVILEGES WHEN THEY'RE
NOT GOOD CITIZENS, WHICH IS A
PROGRAM THEY'VE GOT GOING NOW,
GOOGLE MAY NOT WANT TO BE PART
OF THAT.
SO TO ME, INSTEAD OF PITTING THE
TWO CEOs AGAINST EACH OTHER,
THEY HAVE OFFERED US TWO MODELS,
TWO DIFFERENT STOCKS TO INVEST
IN, TWO VERY SUCCESSFUL
COMPANIES, AMERICA AND AMERICANS
WILL BOTH BE BETTER BECAUSE OF
BOTH COMPANIES.
AND I THINK THIS IS A CHOICE
THAT INDIVIDUAL INVESTORS SHOULD
BE MAKING FOR THEMSELVES.
LIZ: YOU KNOW, IF I'M CORRECT,
YOU ARE DEFINITELY OF
LIBERTARIAN SENSIBILITIES.
TELL US WHAT YOUR COMPANY,
THOUGH, DID FOR THE PENTAGON
BACK IN THE DAY JUST SO THAT WE
CAN GET A SENSE OF THE CHOICES
THAT YOU AND YOUR COMPANY MADE.
>> WELL, I USED TO BRAG ABOUT IT
IN INVESTOR MEETINGS.
BASICALLY, EVERY F-15, 16, 18
AND MISSILES THEY CARRIED HAD
HIGH TECH CHIPS IN THEM FROM
CYPRESS SEMICONDUCTOR.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE RIGHT
THING TO DO.
IT WAS ALSO PROFITABLE BUSINESS
FOR OUR SHAREHOLDERS, AND THAT
WAS OUR POSITION WITH OUR
INVESTORS.
WITH REGARD TO GOOGLE IN THIS
PARTICULAR INSTANCE OF FACIAL
RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY, TO ME, I
LOOK AT IT AS A MORAL CHOICE.
AS LONG AS THEY PRESENT IT UP
FRONT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
NOT GOING TO DO THIS, WE'RE NOT
GOING TO DO THAT, OKAY,
INVESTORS HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY
LOOK, I'M INVESTING IN COMPANIES
THAT WILL DEAL WITH THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT AND HELP US
DEFEND AMERICA LIKE MY COMPANY
DID, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M
PUTTING MY MONEY.
THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS.
FACEBOOK, WHEN THEY DECIDE TO
LEAVE BEHIND THAT HUGE MARKET,
THEY WILL LEAVE OPPORTUNITIES
FOR OTHER COMPANIES THAT HAVE A
DIFFERENT FEELING ABOUT HELPING
THE GOVERNMENT.
SO AGAIN, TO ME, YOU GO BACK TO
WHAT MILTON FRIEDMAN SAID.
MILTON FRIEDMAN SAID WHAT
COMPANIES NEED TO DO IS RAISE
VALUE FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS.
HE DIDN'T SAY COMPANIES SHOULD
RAISE VALUE AS LONG AS THEY
DON'T END CARBON DIOXIDE OR TAKE
CARBON DIOXIDE OUT OF THE
ATMOSPHERE OR THEY SHOULD RAISE
VALUE FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS
DEPENDING ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY
ARE IN DEFENSE PROJECTS.
I BELIEVE THAT'S RIGHT.
I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE
THAT SEPARATION WHERE COMPANIES
ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE DIFFERENT
MODELS.
THE EXPERIMENTATION OF HAVING
DIFFERENT MODELS IN A FREE
MARKET IS REALLY WHAT MAKES US
STRONG, AND WHY WE ARE GOING TO
WIN MUCH MORE SO THAN WHAT ONE
COMPANY WILL MAKE FOR THE
GOVERNMENT OR NOT.
LIZ: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.
WE ARE NOT HERE TO BEAT UP
GOOGLE.
WE ARE HERE TO LOOK AT THE
QUESTION COMPANIES ARE FACED
WITH BUT I THINK YOUR POINT IS
MADE, PEOPLE CAN VOTE WITH THEIR
DOLLAR.
THEY CAN PICK ONE COMPANY IN THE
WAY THAT SAY, FOR EXAMPLE,
AMAZON INVESTS.
KIND OF IRONIC PRESIDENT TRUMP
IS REALLY BEATING UP ON JEFF
BEZOS WHO IS ALSO THE OWNER OF
"THE WASHINGTON POST" BUT OF
COURSE, REALLY GREW AMAZON INTO
QUITE THE POWERHOUSE AND HE'S
THE ONE SAYING LET'S STICK BY
THE PENTAGON.
I DO WANT TO BRING UP APPLE,
THOUGH.
APPLE MANUFACTURES QUITE A BIT
IN CHINA.
DID IT SURPRISE YOU TO HEAR THAT
SERVERS AT LEAST ACCORDING TO A
VERY DETAILED BLOOMBERG REPORT,
HAVE BEEN FOUND FOR BOTH AMAZON
AND APPLE TO HAVE HAD TINY SPY
CHIPS THE SIZE OF A GRAIN OF
SAND OR GRAIN OF RICE, I GUESS,
INSERTED SOMEWHERE ALONG THE
LINE IN CHINA, AND WHAT MESSAGE
DO YOU GLEAN FROM THAT?
>> WELL, WHEN YOU DEAL WITH
ASIAN MANUFACTURING IN
PARTICULAR, THE CHINESE
MANUFACTURING, YOU HAVE TO WATCH
OUT.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE QUALITY CONTROL
THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY.
YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT YOUR
SECRETS ARE NOT BEING TAKEN.
THEY ACTUALLY HAVE RULES WHICH
IN MANY CASES IF YOU EVEN WANT
TO SELL SOMETHING IN CHINA, YOU
HAVE TO MAKE IT IN CHINA AND
ONCE YOU MAKE IT IN CHINA, YOU
HAVE TO MAKE IT IN A CHINESE
FACTORY WHERE YOU DISCLOSURE
TRADE SECRETS.
SO YEAH, I WOULD BE VERY WORRIED
THAT IF I WERE MANUFACTURING IN
CHINA, AND WE HAVE, YOU HAVE TO,
TO BE COMPETITIVE, IT'S THE MOST
COST-EFFICIENT COUNTRY IN THE
WORLD FOR MANUFACTURING, BUT YOU
GOT TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE THEY
DON'T HAVE OUR BELIEFS AND THEY
DON'T HAVE OUR RULES.
LIZ: T.J. RODGERS, I KNOW OUR
VIEWERS ARE GOING TO WRITE AND