>>> SOMEBODY FOR SOME REASON APPEARS TO BE SHOPPING A FAIRLY
CONVINCING FAKE NSA DOCUMENT THAT PURPORTS TO DIRECTLY
IMPLICATE SOMEBODY FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IN WORKING WITH
THE RUSSIANS ON THEIR ATTACK ON THE ELECTION.
IT IS A FORGERY. >> MY MSNBC COLLEAGUE RACHEL
MADDOW TOLD A STUNNING STORY ABOUT A DOCUMENT HER SHOW
RECEIVED. SHE WENT ON TO EXPLAIN WHY IN
HER VIEW SOMEONE WOULD FAKE AN ALLEGED SMOKING GUN OF COLLUSION
BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND RUSSIA.
>> ONE WAY TO STAB IN THE HEART AGGRESSIVE AMERICAN REPORTING ON
THAT SUBJECT IS TO LAY TRAPS FOR AMERICAN JOURNALISTS WHO ARE
REPORTING ON IT. TRICK NEWS ORGANIZATIONS INTO
REPORTING WHAT APPEARS TO BE EVIDENCE OF WHAT HAPPENED, AND
THEN AFTER THE FACT BLOW THAT REPORTING UP.
YOU THEN HURT THE CREDIBILITY OF THAT NEWS ORGANIZATION, YOU ALSO
CAST A SHADOW OVER ANY SIMILAR REPORTING IN THE FUTURE, WHETHER
OR NOT IT'S TRUE, RIGHT? EVEN IF IT'S TRUE, YOU PLANT A
PERMANENT QUESTION, A PERMANENT ASTERISK, PERMANENT WHO KNOWS,
AS TO WHETHER THAT, TOO, MIGHT BE FALSE LIKE THE OTHER STORY.
WHETHER THAT, TOO, MIGHT BE BASED ON FAKE EVIDENCE.
>> AT LEAST ONE OTHER NEWS ORGANIZATION BUZZ FEED SAID IT
WAS PITCHED THE SAME FAKE DOCUMENT.
JOINING ME, TARA MOLER, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR MALCOLM NANS, AND
SENIOR WRITER "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" SHANE HARRIS.
SHANE, LET ME START WITH YOU. HAVE YOU SEEN FAKE DOCUMENTS
COME ACROSS YOUR MAILBOX, YOUR INBOX?
>> NOT THAT I'M AWARE THAT ARE FAKE.
I DON'T THINK WE RECEIVED THE SAME DOCUMENT THAT RACHEL AND
BUZZ FEED RECEIVED, BUT CERTAINLY INFORMATION HAS COME
ACROSS IN MY CAREER THAT'S DIFFICULT TO CORROBORATE ON ITS
FACE, VERY DIFFICULT TO LOOK AT AND KNOW WHETHER OR NOT IT IS
ACCURATE WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT MORE REPORTING.
IN THIS CASE RACHEL SHOW DID THE RIGHT THING, BE SKEPTICAL OF
THIS INFORMATION AND TRIED TO FIND EXPERTS WHO COULD HELP THEM
ASSESS WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS LEGITIMATE.
FOR REASONS SHE LAID OUT, THERE WERE RED FLAGS IN THAT DOCUMENT.
THEY WERE WISE NOT TO TRUST IT AND TO ALERT OTHER JOURNALISTS
ABOUT IT. >> ONE THING, SHANE, THAT RACHEL
POINTED OUT IN THE PIECE THAT WAS A HUGE RED FLAG FOR HER
BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A BOMBSHELL THING IS THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE
WHO WAS NAMED, OUTRIGHT NAMED IN THIS DOCUMENT.
WHY WAS THAT SUCH A HUGE RED FLAG?
>> BECAUSE AN INTELLIGENCE REPORT OF THE KIND SHE'S
DESCRIBING YOU WOULD NOT SEE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN SIMPLY NAMED IN
IT, YOU MIGHT SEE A REFERENCE TO SOMEONE ANONYMOUSLY AS U.S.
PERSON ONE OR A, THEY WOULDN'T BE SITTING THERE, JONATHAN
CAPEHART WON'T BE NAMED IN A DOCUMENT LIKE THAT.
>> I HOPE NOT. >> RIGHT, YOU HOPE NOT.
IN THE RARE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH U.S. OFFICIALS ARE
AUTHORIZED TO LEARN THE IDENTITY OF AN AMERICAN CITIZEN NAMED IN
AN INTELLIGENCE REPORT, THAT'S CLOSELY HELD INFORMATION, IT IS
NOT JUST STATED IN A REPORT THAT'S DISSEMINATED.
THAT WAS A HUGE RED FLAG RIGHT THERE.
>> MALCOLM, ALSO IN RACHEL'S REPORTING SHE LAYS OUT A TIME
LINE OF CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAPPEN WHICH RAISED A QUESTION
FOR ME WHO WOULD CREATE SUCH A FAKE DOCUMENT, ESPECIALLY WHEN
REALITY WINNER WAS ARRESTED ON A SATURDAY, THAY, THE STORY APPEA
A MONDAY, BUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCED ABOUT AN
HOUR LATER AFTER THE STORY HIT THAT AN ARREST WAS MADE, THEN
THAT FAKE DOCUMENT ARRIVES IN RACHEL'S INBOX TWO DAYS AFTER
THAT, WHICH RAISED QUESTIONS IN MY MIND WHO WOULD HAVE THE
ACCESS TO THAT DOCUMENT IN ORDER TO THEN CREATE A FAKE DOCUMENT
TO SEND TO RACHEL. >> RIGHT, YEAH.
WHEN I LISTENED TO HER STORY, I WAS FASCINATED BY THIS.
I HANDLED DOCUMENTS AT THAT LEVEL, EXCUSE ME, AND MY FIRST
QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE TIME LINE, REALITY WINNER WAS
ARRESTED ON A SATURDAY. RACHEL'S TEAM GOT THAT LETTER
VIA HER WEBSITE TWO DAYS AFTER THE INTERCEPT PUT THAT REPORT
OUT. SOMEONE HAD TO HAVE SEEN THAT AS
AN IMMEDIATE OPPORTUNITY. THE NORMAL TROLLS OUT ON TWITTER
DON'T THINK OF THESE THINGS, IT TAKES THEM A DAY OR TWO, BUT IT
APPEARED TO BE A PRETTY FINE EDITING JOB AND DID APPEAR TO
OFFER THEM CROWN JEWEL INTELLIGENCE THAT WOULD HAVE
ONCE PROVEN WRONG, WOULD HAVE COMPLETELY DESTROYED THE NEWS
MEDIA'S CREDIBILITY FOR THAT. AND CUDOS TO THEM FOR TAKING
TIME TO DO THAT. I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THEY
DIDN'T CALL ME TO LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS
VERY IMPORTANT. I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE LAST
AUGUST ON MSNBC. IT'S CALLED BLACK PROPAGANDA.
THAT IS WHEN YOU TAKE LEGITIMATE INFORMATION, EDIT IT, PUT IT
BACK INTO THE INFORMATION STREAM AND THEN ALLOW I IT TO DESTROY E
RECEIVER. >> MALCOLM, ONE THING I THOUGHT
WAS INTERESTING IS HOW GIVEN RACHEL'S REPORTING AND HOW SHE
SHOWED IT, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, PLEASE GO ONLINE AND FIND
RACHEL'S REPORT AND WATCH IT. SHE TALKS ABOUT THE CUT AND
PASTE JOB THAT LED CLUES TO IT BEING A FAKE DOCUMENT.
WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT THIS FAKE DOCUMENT WAS SO SLOPPY?
DOES THAT NOTE TO YOU THIS IS AN AMATEUR OR WAS IT DONE IN A WAY
SOMEBODY WANTED TO GET CAUGHT? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A
PROFESSIONAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, THAT'S FOR SURE.
SOME PEOPLE ALLUDED IT MIGHT BE THE RUSSIAN FSB OR COULD BE
SOMEONE WITHIN THE FBI. YOU KNOW, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.
I THINK THIS IS PART OF THE DIRTY TRICKS TEAMS WHO ARE ON
STAND BY RIGHT NOW THAT WE'VE SEEN ACTIVE OVER THE LAST YEAR.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE SOME OF THESE CHARACTERS ON TWITTER, EXTREME
RIGHT WEET TWITTER WHO ANOINTED THEMSELVES AS AR BIORS AND
DEFENDERS OF DONALD TRUMP'S LEGACY, THEY CAN EASILY GO DOWN
THERE, USE SOME SKILLS AND DO THIS.
THAT KEY THING ABOUT IDENTIFYING A U.S. CITIZEN, I HAVE BEEN
UNMASKED IN AN OPERATION AND IT WILL SAY U.S. CITIZEN OR PERSON
WITH A SERIAL NUMBER THAT'S NOT ANYWHERE ACCESSIBLE BY SOMEONE.
ONLY I BELIEVE THEY IDENTIFIED 14 PEOPLE AT THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY WOULD HAVE A RAW DOCUMENT WITH THAT NAME IN IT,
AND GENERALLY WOULDN'T. IT WOULD HAVE HAVE A SEPARATE S
OF PAPER WITH THAT PERSON'S NAME ON IT.
>> TARA, AS MUCH AS WE TALK ABOUT THE DANGER, RACHEL TALKED
ABOUT THE DANGER THESE FAKE DOCUMENTS POSE TO JOURNALISTS
AND JOURNALISTISTIC ENTERPRISES AND JOURNALISM IN GENERAL IN
TERMS OF CREDIBILITY IN REPORTING THIS STORY, BUT WHAT
KIND OF DANGER LIES IN THE NATIONAL SECURITY AND
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY OVER THESE FAKE DOCUMENTS?
>> SURE. I THINK THERE ARE A FEW THINGS
HERE. IT IS OBVIOUSLY TROUBLESOME.
GOES TO THE HEART OF THE CREDIBILITY OF THE PRESS IF THEY
ARE GETTING FAKE DOCUMENTS, IF BY ACCIDENT SOMEBODY REPORTS IT,
PUTS ATTAIN ON THEIR REPORTING GOING FORWARD, WHETHER FAIR OR
UNFAIR. HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK IN
THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I'M NOT SURE, I USUALLY AGREE WITH A LOT
OF WHAT MALCOLM SAYS, I'M NOT SURE IT WAS A HIGHLY
SOPHISTICATED COPYING OF A DOCUMENT.
IT WAS A PDF DOCUMENT PUT ONLINE BY THE INTERCEPT, AND AFTER PUT
ONLINE, SOMEBODY OUT THERE, SHOULDN'T BE THAT SURPRISING,
YOU SEE THE TWITTER COMMENTS AFTER THESE SEGMENTS, SOMEBODY
COULD HAVE BEEN A SENIOR LEVEL PERSON OR RANDOM PERSON DECIDED
TO TAKE THAT PDF AND DECIDED TO DO HIGH LEVEL EDITING TO IT.
DIDN'T SEEM THAT HIGH TECH. THEN THEY SENT IT TO THE E-MAIL
MADE PUBLIC WHERE THEY TAKE TIPS FROM AUDIENCE VIEWERS AND ANYONE
ANONYMOUSLY OR WITH IDENTIFICATION, MODIFY THE
DOCUMENT. DID IT IN A WAY THAT WAS FAIRLY
OBVIOUS TO ANYONE THAT LOOKED AT THAT SENIOR LEVEL IN THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY THAT IT WASN'T REAL, BOTH BECAUSE OF
UNMASKING ELEMENT AND CRAPPY CROPPING JOB DONE ON IT.
I THINK THE LESSON IS WHAT MSNBC IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, REVIEW
THESE THINGS WITH CAUTION, BRING THEM TO EXPERTS TO LOOK AT, GET
TO THE TRUTH, DON'T REPORT IT AS FACT AND WE SAW IT PLAY OUT
HERE. >> YOU'RE NOT CONCERNED THAT THE
NATIONAL SECURITY INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY SHOULDN'T BE WORRIED
THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING THINGS THAT COULD UNDERMINE
THEIR CREDIBILITY. >> THEY SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT
IT. I'M SAYING IT SHOULDN'T BE AS
DIFFICULT TO CATCH, IF YOU GET A DOCUMENT CLAIMING TO BE
SUPREMELY HIGH LEVEL OF CLASSIFICATION, TOP SECRET,
SECRET, COMPARTMENTALIZED, WE ALL KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE IN, IF
YOU GET A DOCUMENT LIKE THAT, YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO PRINT
OR PUBLICIZE WITHOUT NECESSARY VERIFICATION.
PROBABLY WANT TO RUN IT BY SOMEBODY, WANT THE DOCUMENT
EXAMINED FORENSICALLY. YEAH, THERE'S REASON TO BE
WORRIED, BUT AS LONG AS THE MEDIA HAS THE PROPER SAFEGUARDS
IN PLACE, I THINK IT IS WORRISOME AND IT IS WORRISOME IF
THIS IS AN ORCHESTRATED CAMPAIGN TO UNDERMINE THE PRESS.
>> MALCOLM, YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING.
SAY IT FAST. TEN SECONDS.
>> JONATHAN, THERE'S A SAYING IN OUR COMMUNITY, THE TARGET IS THE
TACTIC, ALL RIGHT? YOU NOTICE WHO THEY WENT AFTER.
THEY WENT AFTER BUZZ FEED WHICH ALREADY RAISED A SERIES OF RED
FLAGS AFTER RELEASING A REPORT RELATED TO THE STEELE MEMOS
EARLY ON. THEN WENT AFTER THE TOP RANKED
SHOW ON CABLE TELEVISION, RACHEL MADDOW.
THAT RIGHT THERE REVEALS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE INTENT AND
STRATEGY BEHIND THE RELEASERS. THEY INTEND TO DAMAGE DIGITAL
MEDIA AND TOP RANKED CABLE SHOW. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>> UP NEXT, AMERICA'S LEAST FAVORITE SENATOR IS ABOUT TO
CRUISE INTO THE HEALTH CARE