Hurry in.
>>> THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH WAS LARGELY CONGRATULATORY.
WAS LARGELY CORRUPTION, ALL OF
THE CORRUPTION TAKING PLACE.
THE FACT WE DON’T WANT OUR
PEOPLE LIKE VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN
AND HIS SON CREATING TO THE
CORRUPTION ALREADY IN THE
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO TALK
ABOUT CORRUPTION.
ABOUT CORRUPTION. IF YOU DON’T TALK ABOUT
CORRUPTION, WHY WOULD YOU GIVE
MONEY TO A COUNTRY THAT YOU
THINK IS CORRUPT?
I PUT NO PRESSURE ON THEM
WHATSOEVER.
WHATSOEVER. I COULD HAVE.
I THINK IT PROBABLY WOULD
POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN OKAY IF I
DID.
DID. BUT I DIDN’T.
I DIDN’T PUT ANY PRESSURE ON
THEM WHATSOEVER.
THEM WHATSOEVER. I DID NOT MAKE A STATEMENT THAT
YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OR I’M NOT
GOING TO GIVE YOU "AAID.
I WOULDN’T DO THAT.
I WOULDN’T DO THAT.
I’LL WITHHOLD, AGAIN, AND
CONTINUE TO WITHHOLD UNTIL SUCH
TIME AS EUROPE AND OTHER NATIONS
CONTRIBUTE TO UKRAINE.
>> THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP BEING
THE WORLD’S WORST WITNESS FOR
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. THOSE WERE HIS RESPONSES OVER
JUST THREE DAYS TO THE
"WASHINGTON POST" AND "THE WALL
STREET JOURNAL" AND "THE NEW
YORK TIMES" REPORTING ON HIM
BASICALLY ORDERING THAT AID TO
UKRAINE BE HALTED WHILE HE WAS
PEPPERING AND REQUESTING AND
BADGERING THEIR LEADER TO
INVESTIGATE THE BIDENS.
IF IMPEACHMENT IS SORT OF A
PUBLIC AND POLITICAL WAY TO
ADJUDICATE JUSTICE, WHERE
EVERYTHING’S OUT IN THE OPEN,
PUBLIC OPINION IS A FACTOR,
HASN’T DONALD TRUMP JUST WALKED
INTO THE BIGGEST TRAP OF HIS
LIFE?
LIFE? >> YEAH, I MEAN, HE’S A
TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE, WITNESS.
AND I GUESS THE BEST LEGAL
PRECEDENT US LEGAL SCHOLARS
WOULD DRAW FOR WHAT TRUMP HAS
DONE OVER THE LAST WEEK, AND
FORGIVE THE SEXIST OVERTONES,
BUT DRUNK GIRL ON "SATURDAY
NIGHT LIVE," LIKE I DID IT,
DIDN’T TO DO, I SAID IT, I
DIDN’T, DEEP STATE, NOT DEEP
STATE.
STATE. IT’S COMPLETELY --
>> WITH HIS SIDEKICK, RUDY.
HE DID IT, HE DID IT.
HE MEANT TO DO IT.
I DID IT, TOO.
I MEAN, HOW ARE THOSE TWO -- I
MEAN, IT WOULD SEEM THAT WHAT
DIDN’T SERVE THEM WELL IN THE
MUELLER PROBE, THAT IT WAS SO
OPAQUE, THAT IT WAS SO
INACCESSIBLE.
INACCESSIBLE. NANCY PELOSI NEVER FELT LIKE THE
STORY HAD BEEN TOLD, NEVER FELT
LIKE SHE COULD TAKE WHAT WAS A
RICHLY DETAILED STORY OF DEEP
TIES TO RUSSIA, CRIMINAL
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, BUT IT
DIDN’T HAPPEN IN FULL VIEW.
THIS IS DONALD TRUMP AND RUDY
GIULIANI BOZO THE CLOWNING IT
ALL OVER.
ALL OVER. >> THIS IS CONSTITUTIONAL KARMA,
THIS IS COMING BACK AROUND TO
HIM BECAUSE ALL THE POSITIONS
HE’S TAKEN, ALL THE THINGS HE’S
DONE OVER THE LAST MONTHS AND
SO, YES, I THINK ABSOLUTELY, YOU
KNOW, HE HAS HIMSELF TO BLAME
FOR IT.
FOR IT. >> ALSO LET’S NOT FORGET THAT
AIDES CLOSE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP
ENCOURAGED HIM NOT TO DO AN
IN-PERSON INTERVIEW WITHER MUELL
FOR FEAR HE’D PERJURE HIMSELF.
HE SUBMITTED EDTED WRITTEN RESPO
>> MUELLER STILL THOUGHT WERE
LIES.
LIES. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. HE COULDN’T EVEN DO IT RIGHT IN
WRITTEN RESPONSES.
WRITTEN RESPONSES. THINK THAT IS EXACTLY YOUR
POINT, HE WOULD BE HIS OWN WORST
ENEMY SITTING DOWN AND LOOKS
LIKE HE MIGHT HAVENOT HAVE A CHO
>> TO YOUR POINT, ALL HE HAD TO
DO WAS NOT COLLUDE AGAIN.
>> I THINK HE’S BECOME THIS
FIGURE, I DON’T KNOW IF HE’S
BECOME OR ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY
THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE, I THINK
HE’S ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY
THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE, SOMEONE WHO
BELIEVES HE’S INVINCIBLE.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, WE ALL
TALKED ABOUT THIS, AFTER HE GOT
AWAY WITH IT AFTER THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION, AFTER THE MUELLER
REPORT, AFTER HOUSE DEMOCRATS
DIDN’T DO ANYTHING ON THAT, HE
THEN REALIZED AS WE’VE SEEN HOW
MUCH HE COULD SORT OF ABUSE AND
USE THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENCY,
WHETHER IT’S THROUGH EXECUTIVE
ORDERS TO CIRCUMVENT CONGRESS TO
GET WHAT HE WANTS DONE OR
SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
I WAS SPEAKING TO A DEMOCRAT
TODAY WHO WAS SO FRUSTRATED, HE
SAID, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP
SAID I COULD SHOOT AT SOMEONE ON
5th AVENUE AND MY REPORTERS
WOULDN’T CARE LESS, DONALD TRUMP
COULD SHOOT SOMEONE ON 5th
AVENUE AND HOUSE DEMOCRATS
HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING UNTIL
PERHAPS 5:00 P.M. TODAY.
>> IT’S SUCH A DEEP POINT WHEN
YOU TALK ABOUT HIS
INVINCIBILITY.
INVINCIBILITY. YOU KNOW, I THINK JOHN’S RIGHT
TO SAY, WELL, IT’S HE DID IT
AGAIN, THAT’S PART OF WHAT’S
GOING ON.
GOING ON. IT’S DEEPER.
IT’S DEEPER. IT’S THIS POINT ABOUT
INVINCIBILITY THAT, YOU KNOW,
AMERICANS, THE CONSTITUTION, IS
ALL ABOUT A PRESIDENT WHO
BELIEVES IN THE RULE OF LAW,
BELIEVES IN CHECKS AND BALANCES,
WHO HAS SOME HUMILITY IN THE
JOB.
JOB. BOTH OF US GOT TO WORK FOR
DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS WHO HAD
THAT.
THAT. HE’S GOT NONE OF THAT.
I THINK THAT’S ACTUALLY AT THE
CORE OF WHAT THIS IMPEACHMENT
DECISION TODAY IS ABOUT.
>> SHAMELESSNESS IS SHOWN EVEN
IN HIS LACK OF A WILLINGNESS TO
APOLOGIZE FOR THINGS WHEN HE HAS
PROVEN HIMSELF WRONG.
>> THERE ARE ALSO TWO KINDS OF
PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, TWO KINDS
OF POLITICIANS, RIGHT?
MANY POLITICIANS WE KNOW IN BOTH
PARTIES OVER TIME HAVE DONE
THINGS THAT ARE WRONG, YOU KNOW,
EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR
UNINTENTIONALLY MADE MISTAKES,
WHATEVER. SOMETIME AND
WHATEVER.
WHATEVER. SOMETIMES THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT.
YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, THERE BUT
FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I.
I’M NEVER GOING TO DO THAT
AGAIN.
AGAIN. THAT WAS CLOSE.
I COULD HAVE GOTTEN IMPEACHED.
CLEAN HANDS NOW.
OR YOU’RE THE ONE WHO GOES, I
GOT AWAY WITH IT THAT TIME,
LET’S GO DO IT AGAIN.
IF YOU’RE DONALD TRUMP WHO HAS
NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW, THE
INSTITUTIONS, THE PRECEDENT, THE
HISTORY
HISTORY HISTORY, DUTIES OF THE JOB, ALL
THAT STUFF, THAT’S THE GUY THAT
SAYS, HEY, I GOT AWAY WITH THIS,
IF I GOT AWAY WITH IT THAT TIME,
I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AGAIN.
IT GOES TO INVINCIBILITY,
ARROGANCE, JUST THE SENSE THAT
YOU ARE NOW UNBRIDLED.
I WANT TO SAY TO POINT OUT ONE
THING FOR BREAKING NEWS, THE
CASE NANCY PELOSI IS IN THE
CAUCUS MEETING RIGHT NOW, JAKE
SHERMAN HAS APPARENTLY A SOURCE
IN THE ROOM, PELOSI HAS TOLD
DEMOCRATS IN THE ROOM THEY’RE
MOVING TO IMPEACHMENT, THAT
MOMENT WATCHING -- AS WE SIT
HERE SPEAKING.
HERE SPEAKING. >> WAIT, DO WE HAVE JAKE SHERMAN
COMING UP?
COMING UP? NOT YET.
NOT YET. OKAY.
OKAY. >> LET’S HOPE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I DO WANT TO ASK A PRACTICAL
QUESTION TO NEAL BECAUSE WE ALL
KNOW, OKAY, WE’RE HERE, LET’S
GO.
GO. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> THE QUESTION IS, WHAT NOW
HAPPENS?
HAPPENS? AND, YOU KNOW, THE NIXON
PRECEDENT IS ONCE THE
PROCEEDINGS BEGAN, AND THE
COUNTRY WATCHED EVIDENCE THAT
WAS UNFURLED BEFORE THEM, PUBLIC
OPINION CHANGED IN A DRAMATIC
WAY.
WAY. REPUBLICANS, WHO HAD BEEN ALL
BEHIND RICHARD NIXON, ONCE THE
SCALES TIPPED AND THEY SAW
NIXON’S POPULARITY AND THE
MOUNTING WEIGHT OF EVIDENCE GET
TO A CERTAIN POINT, REPUBLICANS
SUDDENLY ABANDONED THE SINKING
SHINE AND THAT WAS THE END FOR
RICHARD NIXON.
RICHARD NIXON. SO, IF YOU’RE A DEMOCRAT RIGHT
NOW, WE TALK ALL THE TIME ABOUT
HOW A FORMAL IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY
WILL ALLOW DEMOCRATS IN THE
HOUSE TO DO THINGS, TO ENTER
INTO EVIDENCE MORE FACTS.
TO GET FACT WITNESSES TO SPEED
THE PROCESS THAT RIGHT NOW’S
KIND OF LOCKED UP IN THE COURTS
OVER SUBPOENAS AND OTHER THINGS.
TALK IN A PRACTICAL WAY ABOUT
WHAT NEW TOOLS DEMOCRATS HAVE TO
GET FACTS ON THE TABLE IF THEY
HAVE A FORMAL IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY NOW THAT THEY DIDN’T
HAVE BEFORE.
HAVE BEFORE. >> THE FORMAL ANSWER TO THAT IN
THE LAW IS YOU CAN GET GRAND
JURY MATERIALS MORE EASILY WHEN
YOU IS AN IMPEACHMENT
PROCEEDING.
PROCEEDING. HERE, THERE’S NOT NECESSARILY A
GRAND JURY THAT’S BEEN CONVENED
SO THOSE PROHIBITIONS AREN’T
NECESSARILY AT STAKE.
HERE, THERE’S SOMETHING REALLY
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. THIS PRESIDENT HAS DONE
SOMETHING NO PRESIDENT HAS DONE
WHICH IS NOT GIVE ANYTHING TO
CONGRESS EFFECTIVELY.
CONGRESS EFFECTIVELY. PRIVILEGE AFTER PRIVILEGE BEING
ASSERTED.
ASSERTED. EVEN EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE OVER
PEOPLE WHO NEVER WORKED IN THE
WHITE HOUSE, INSANE PROPOSITIONS
LIKE THAT.
LIKE THAT. NOW, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP
ON DOING THAT.
THEY COULD STILL EVEN IN A
FORMAL IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY SAY
WE’RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU
THIS, NOT GOING TO TELL YOU
ABOUT UKRAINE, IT’S FOREIGN
POLICY, IT’S UP TO THE
PRESIDENT, SO ON.
THAT WOULD FORCE THE DEMOCRATS
TO GO TO COURT.
AND THEN I DO THINK, THOUGH,
CALLING IT IMPEACHMENT DOES
SPEED IT UP IN THE COURTS.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. PUTS PRESSURE ON THE JUDGES.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. >> THAT’S THEIR -- THIS -- THIS
ESCALATES THINGS WHERE A JUDGE
WOULD NORMALLY TAKE SIX MONTHS
TO DECIDE, MIGHT NOW DECIDE IT
IN EXPEDITED WAY.
>> WE HAVE THIS PRECEDENT, THE
UNITED STATES VERSUS NIXON, THE
NIXON TAPES CASE.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> NIXON TRIED TO STONEWALL AND
NOT TURN OVER THE TAPES.
THE SUPREME COURT IN A MATTER OF
15 DAYS BASICALLY HEARD THE
CASE, DECIDED THE CASE, FORCED
THE TAPES TO BE TURNED OVER, AND
THEN THE NEXT DAY NIXON
RESIGNED.
RESIGNED. >> SO BECAUSE WHEN JOHN
HEILEMANN TALKS, PEOPLE LISTEN,
JAKE SHERMAN’S NOW ON THE PHONE.
SO, JAKE SHERMAN, SINCE WE’VE
COME ON THE AIR, FOUR MORE
DEMOCRATS HAVE ANNOUNCED SUPPORT
FOR IMPEACHMENT.
FOR IMPEACHMENT. THE NUMBER NOW STANDS AT I THINK
179.
179. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?
JOHN HEILEMANN JUST REPORTED YOU
GOT A SOURCE IN THE ROOM WITH
SOME NEW INFORMATION.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT,
IT MATTERS NOT MUCH HOW MANY
PEOPLE ARE FOR IT BECAUSE
EVERYONE’S GOING TO BE FOR IT
BECAUSE NANCY PELOSI AS NOW
ANNOUNCED THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS
ARE DOING IT.
I’M STANDING JUST FEET FROM THE
HOUSE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS MEETING
IN THE BASEMENT OF THE CAPITOL
WHERE PELOSI ANNOUNCED THIS.
AND ADAM SCHIFF JUST MINUTES AGO
SAID IT’S GONE FROM BAD TO WORSE
TO WORSE.
TO WORSE. AND THEY’RE GOING TO -- THEY’RE
GOING TO OPEN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY
INQUIRY INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. NEBLGS CUP
NEBLGS CUP NEXT COUPLE DAY, WE’VE BEEN
HEARING, THE PLAN TO BE, THE
COMMITTEES ARE GOING TO SUBMIT
KIND OF THEIR BEST MATERIAL FROM
ALL THEIR INVESTIGATIONS TO
JUDICIARY WHICH IS GOING TO THEN
TURN AROUND AND PACKAGE THIS
INTO AN IMPEACHMENT PACKAGE.
AND THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, WE
DON’T KNOW HOW LONG THIS IS
GOING TO LAST, OBVIOUSLY, COULD
LAST MONTHS, COULD GO MUCH
QUICKER, BUT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS
ARE THERE.
ARE THERE. I MEAN, THEY ARE DOING THIS, AND
THEY’RE MOVING RAPIDLY AND IT’S
WORTH NOTING, NICOLLE, WE TALKED
ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK ON AIR A
BUNCH OF TIMES, BUT NANCY PELOSI
WAS AGAINST THIS A WEEK AGO, AND
THEN THE UKRAINE STUFF CAME OUT.
AND THE GAME HAS KIND OF BEEN
CHANGED IN A MAJOR, MAJOR WAY
OVER THE LAST COUPLE DAYS.
>> JAKE, I WAS ABOUT TO SAY
THAT, YOU SAT ON OUR SET MONDAY
AND TUESDAY IN D.C., MAYBE ONE
OF THOSE DAYS YOU WERE REMOTE,
AND WE DID, WE TALKED ABOUT
THIS.
THIS. WE TALKED ABOUT NANCY PELOSI
SEEMING INTRACTABILITY AROUND
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. I WONDER IN YOUR ANALYSIS, WHAT
IS IT ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN STORY?
JOHN HEILEMANN HAS A THEORY,
IT’S THE BRAZENNESS, OCCURRED
THE DAY AFTER MUELLER TESTIFIED,
I GOT AWAY WITH IT ONCE, I’M
GOING TO TRY TO GET AWAY WITH IT
AGAIN.
AGAIN. A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIALS DESCRIBE TRUMP AS
ACTING LIKE A MOB BOSS.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE UKRAINE
STORY THAT CHANGED NANCY
PELOSI’S CALCULATION?
PELOSI’S CALCULATION? >> YEAH, I THINK IT’S TWOFOLD.
I THINK IT’S THAT THE PRESIDENT,
WE DON’T KNOW -- AGAIN, WE DON’T
KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT
IF THE REPORTING IS RIGHT, THE
PRESIDENT HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH
THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ABOUT --
BOTH ABOUT MILITARY AID AND
ABOUT INVESTING DOMESTIC
POLITICAL RIVAL.
POLITICAL RIVAL. THAT’S NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, AND PERHAPS MOST
IMPORTANTLY, IS THE
ADMINISTRATION IS BLOCKING THIS
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT AGAINST
THE -- WHAT IS -- YOU KNOW,
THERE IS PRECEDENT ON BOTH
SIDES.
SIDES. CONGRESS IS DEMANDING THIS
REPORT AND THE PRESIDENT IS
NOT -- THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT
GIVING IT UP.
SO BOTH THINGS ARE DIFFERENT,
RELATED, BUT BOTH PIQUE THE
INTEREST OF FRONTLINE, THESE
KIND OF VULNERABLE DEMOCRATS
THAT NANCY PELOSI WAS SHIELDING
TO PROTECT AND, AGAIN, NANCY
PELOSI SAID SHE WAS PROTECTING
THESE FRONTLINE DEMOCRATS.
NOW ALL OF THEM ARE FOR AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> THERE’S NO ONE TO PROTECT
REALLY AND AN IMPORTANT
POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT.
POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT. >> JOHN HEILEMANN HAS A QUESTION
FOR YOU.
FOR YOU. >> JAKE, I HEARD YOU SAY THIS
THING ABOUT JUDICIARY TAKING THE
LEAD ON THIS.
I’M CURIOUS IF YOU KNOW ANY MORE
ABOUT PROCESS ON THE BASIS OF
YOUR REPORTING.
YOUR REPORTING. IS THE JUDICIARY GOING TO BE THE
COMMITTEE OF JURISDICTION HERE
OR COULD THERE BE A SPECIAL
COMMITTEE?
COMMITTEE? ARE THE OTHER COMMITTEES THAT
HAVE ANY KIND OF PIECE OF THIS
GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO
INVESTIGATIONS?
INVESTIGATIONS? LIKE, HOW IS THIS GOING TO
ACTUALLY UNFOLD?
ACTUALLY UNFOLD? >> WELL, WE UNDERSTAND IS THE
COMMITTEES THAT HAVE PIECES OF
THIS ARE GOING TO BE FUNNELING
TO JUDICIARY.
TO JUDICIARY. THAT’S WHAT WE UNDERSTAND AT
THIS POINT.
THIS POINT. THIS HAS BEEN VERY FAST-MOVING
AND CERTAINLY LIABLE TO CHANGE.
THAT’S WHAT WE’VE BEEN REPORTING
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. IT DOESN’T SEEM LIKE A SPECIAL
COMMITTEE IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE ARE SOME HURDLES THERE.
THEY’D HAVE TO ASSEMBLE A STAFF,
POPULATE THE COMMITTEE, THEY’D
RISK THE IRE OF MEMBERS OF THE
JUDICIARY WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING
ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME.
LOOKS LIKE JUDICIARY IS GOING TO
BE IN THE LEEAD.
HAVE NO DOUBT, NANCY PELOSI
GOING TO HAVE TIGHT CONTROL OVER
THIS PROCESS OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE WEEKS AND MONTHS.
>> JAKE SHERMAN, YOUR REPORTING
ON THIS HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARY.
IF YOU COME UP WITH ANYTHING
ELSE IN THE NEXT 22 MINUTES
WHILE WE’RE ON THE AIR, CALL
BACK INTO OUR COOLNTROL ROOMG.
WE’LL GET YOU RIGHT BACK ON THE
AIR.
AIR. >> THANKS, NICOLLE.
>> JONATHAN LEMIRE, THIS IS
GOING FROM BAD TO WORSE FOR THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. ROAD BLOCK COVERAGE, BAD FOR
HIM, ROAD BLOCK COVERAGE, BAD
FOR HIM.
FOR HIM. TWO, IT TENDS TO DRIVE HIS
ALREADY HISTORICALLY LOW POLL
NUMBERS EVEN LOWER AND, THREE,
THAT NUMBER UP THERE, 179, HE’S
WITHIN A COUPLE DOZEN MEMBERS
THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO IMPEACH
HIM.
HIM. >> WHICH, OF COURSE, IS A
HISTORIC MOMENT TO SAY THE
LEAST.
LEAST. YOU’RE RIGHT, THE PRESIDENT IS
IS -- HE’S ALWAYS BEEN VERY
MINDFUL OF THE OPTICS.
THE VISHLS.
THE VISHLS. HE COME
HE COME VISUALS.
VISUALS. HE COMES FROM TV.
HAS THAT BACKGROUND.
HE’S OBSESSED WITH CABLE NEWS
INCLUDING SOME OF THE PROGRAM
THE ON THIS NETWORK.
HE’S NOW GOING TO FACE DAYS UPON
DAYS WHERE IT’STHERE’S NOT GOING
BE ANY OTHER STORY.
THIS IS THE UNITED NATIONS
GENERAL ASSEMBLY.
GENERAL ASSEMBLY. THAT’S WHY HE’S IN NEW YORK
TODAY.
TODAY. THAT’S WHY THE PRESS POOL IS IN
NEW YORK TODAY.
THIS IS TRADITIONALLY A WEEK
THAT IS DOMINATED BY
INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. HE DELIVERED A SPEECH TODAY THAT
WAS A PRETTY HARDLINE WARNING TO
IRAN.
IRAN. AND NONE OF THAT IS BREAKING
THROUGH.
THROUGH. THIS IS THE STORY.
AND IT’S GOING TO BE FOR A WHILE
NOW.
NOW. AND AS MUCH AS THE PEOPLE AROUND
THE PRESIDENT FEEL THAT THEY CAN
SPIN THIS, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY
CAN GET A WIN OUT OF THIS,
PRESIDENT, HIMSELF, SAID SO A
SHORT TIME AGO, IN ONE OF THESE
FOREIGN LEADER MEETINGS, HE TOOK
A FEW QUESTIONS, THE STEADY
DRUMBEAT HERE IS ONLY GOING TO
GET LOUDER AND THIS IS WITHOUT
QUESTION A CRISIS THAT COULD
IMPERIL AND CHANGE HIS
PRESIDENCY.
PRESIDENCY. EVEN WERE HE TO SURVIVE THE SORT
OF PROCESS IN THE SENATE, WHICH,
OF COURSE, WE ALL EXPECT THAT HE
WOULD, YOU KNOW, HE THEN, WE
THEN TEST -- WE THEN TEST WHAT
HAPPENS NEXT.
HAPPENS NEXT. YOU KNOW, BILL CLINTON AS WE ALL
KNOW, HIS POLL NUMBERS WENT UP
AFTER THE REPUBLICANS IMPEACHED
HIM IN THE LATE 1990s.
BILL CLINTON DIDN’T HAVE TO RUN
FOR RE-ELECTION AGAIN.
DONALD TRUMP DOES.
AND, PERHAPS, THIS WILL BACKFIRE
ON DEMOCRATS, BUT THE OTHER
SCENARIO, JUST AS LIKELY,
PERHAPS, IS THIS WILL WOUND,
GRAVELY WOUND, THE PRESIDENT
NEXT YEAR AND HE IS THEN BEATEN
BY WHOEVER HE FACES.
AND JOHN HEILEMANN’S GOTTEN
ENTIRELY TOO MUCH CREDIT FOR
MAKING A GOOD POINT ON THIS
SHOW, BUT PEOPLE AROUND THE
PRESIDENT HAVE SAID THAT THOSE
AROUND HIM HAVE EXPRESSED
FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE TIMING OF
THIS.
THIS. THAT THE CALL CAME WITH
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT CAME THE DAY
AFTER THE MUELLER REPORT AND
JUST INFLAMED DEMOCRATS ALREADY
UP IN ARMS THAT THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL DIDN’T LEAD TO THE
DOWNFALL OF THE PRESIDENCY, AND
LET’S REMEMBER, DONALD TRUMP,
HIMSELF, OPENLY SAID IN AN
INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE
STEPHANOPOULOS HE WOULD BE
WILLING TO TAKE FOREIGN
ELECTORAL ASSISTANCE AGAIN AND
HERE HE IS SEEKING IT FROM THE
UKRAINIANS.
UKRAINIANS. >> I WANT TO GET THE DATE ON
THAT.
THAT. THAT’S A GREAT POINT.
THE DATE OF THE
STEPHANOPOULOS -- LET ME FOLLOW
UP ON IT AND HILLJOHN HEILEMANN
BROUGHT THIS BACK TO THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT, PUT
THIS ALL IN MOTION WITH BREAKING
NEWS.
NEWS. GO AHEAD.
GO AHEAD. >> WE’RE IN A NEW WORLD IN A
VARIETY OF WAYS.
LOOKS LIKE AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY IN THE HOUSE.
THE SENATE, NOT JUST THE MITCH
McCONNELL THING WE TALKED ABOUT,
IT’S THE CASE THE SENATE
UNANIMOUSLY AGREED TO CHUCK
SCHUMER’S RESOLUTION CALLING FOR
THE WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT TO
BE TURNED OVER TO THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEES
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEES IMMEDIATELY.
IMMEDIATELY. >> WOW.
>> WOW. >> THINK ABOUT THE NEW WORLD
THAT WE’RE IN.
ONE NEW WORLD IS WE’RE IN
IMPEACHMENT LAND.
IMPEACHMENT LAND. ANOTHER NEW WORLD IS IN THE
SENATE WHERE WE NOW HAVE
REPUBLICANS, REPUBLICANS,
REPUBLICANS, REPUBLICANS, APPARENTLY, GETTING ON BOARD.
I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU
THINK’S GOING ON THERE BECAUSE
IT MAY BE MORE CONSEQUENTIAL IN
THE LONG RUN, NOT THAT THE
MAJORITY -- THAT THE DEMOCRATS
WHO CONTROL THE HOUSE ARE MOVING
ON IMPEACHMENT, BUT THAT SENATE
REPUBLICANS UNANIMOUSLY, JUST
NOW, SAID WE MUST SEE THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT.
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT. >> IT’S AN UNENFORCEABLE
RESOLUTION SAYING THEY WANT THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT.
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT. >> AND YET --
>> WHICH IS REQUIRED BY LAW SO
THERE REALLY IS NO WAY FOR
REPUBLICANS TO OPPOSE IT.
BUT --
BUT -- >> WE’VE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE
THIS FROM SENATE REPUBLICANS IN
A LONG TIME.
>> LOOK, IN THE SENATE, MY EYES
ARE ON MITT ROMNEY.
MITT ROMNEY IS PROBABLY THE
FIRST PERSON THAT WOULD ACT ON
CONSCIENCE IF WE WERE TO SEE ANY
REPUBLICAN DO IT.
BUT TO THE EARLIER CONVERSATION,
WE’RE GOING TO SEE PROCESS AND
OPTICS COLLIDE HERE VERY
SHORTLY.
SHORTLY. WHAT FOLLOWS AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY RESOLUTION ON THE HOUSE
FLOOR IS THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
WILL SET UP A QUASI-JUDICIAL
PROCEEDING.
PROCEEDING. IT DOES ALLOW FOR EXPEDITED
MATERIAL TO BE TURNED OVER TO
THE COMMITTEE.
THE COMMITTEE. WE MAY SEE THE WHISTLE-BLOWER
REPORT.
REPORT. WE COULD SEE THE WHISTLE-BLOWER
BE COMPELLED TO TESTIFY IN AN
EXPEDITED WAY.
EXPEDITED WAY. WHAT WILL THEN HAPPEN, AND THIS
IS WHERE THE OPTICS WILL GET
VERY SPECIFIC AND THE HOUSE
NEEDS TO ACT VERY PRECISELY, IS
ULTIMATELY, THEY HAVE TO DRAFT
RESOLUTION -- OR ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT THAT NAME AN
IMPEACHABLE CONDUCT.
IMPEACHABLE CONDUCT. TREASON, BRIBERY, ABUSE OF
POWER, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE,
PERJURY.
PERJURY. THE PRESIDENT NEVER WENT UNDER
OATH.
OATH. SO IT’S NOT PERJURY.
IT’S NOT TREASON.
IT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY BRIBERY,
THOUGH, YOU COULD KIND OF MAKE
THE CASE.
THE CASE. SO THEY WILL HAVE TO DRAFT
ARTICLES AROUND ABUSE OF POWER
AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AND THE QUESTION IS, AS I THINK
HEIDI SAID EARLIER, IS IT JUST
ON UKRAINE?
ON UKRAINE? IS IT ON OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
IN THE MUELLER REPORT?
IS IT ON SDNI?
THOSE WILL BE TOUGH DECISIONS
THAT GET MADE OUT IN THE OPEN,
AND THOSE OPTICS, THE PRESIDENT
WILL BE HAVING TO CATCH UP TO.
HE CAN’T CONTROL THOSE DECISIONS
AS THEY’RE BEING MADE.
HE WILL BE CHARGED WITH ARTICLES
OF IMPEACHMENT AND I THINK IT’S
INVESTABLE THIS PRESIDENT WILL
BE IMPEACHED.
BE IMPEACHED. >> YOU KNOW -- I’M SORRY.
>> THIS IS WHERE MY BRETHREN
LAWYERS CAN MAKE A MISTAKE.
THE LAWYERS’ TENDENCY, WRITING
AN ARTICLE, LIKE AN INDICTMENT,
IS TO THROW EVERYTHING IN, ALL
SORTS OF STUFF.
IF YOU DO THAT HERE, BRING IN
ALL THE MUELLER STUFF,
EVERYTHING ABOUT OBSTRUCTION, SO
ON, YOU LOSE THE FOCUS.
>> FOCUS.
>> FOCUS. >> DAVID’S RIGHT.
THIS IS ABOUT ABUSE OF PUBLIC
TRUST.
TRUST. THE CASE OUR FOUNDERS THOUGHT
ABOUT IMPEACHMENT, A BREACH OF
YOUR FIDUCIARY DUTIES.
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DECIDE DO
THEY WANT THAT LASER FOCUS OR
SOMETHING BROADER?
SOMETHING BROADER? IN THEY WANT SOMETHING BROADER,
THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HAVE
THIS WHOLE STORY ABOUT BEING
CLEARED AND WHAT BARR SAID, THIS
AND THAT.
AND THAT. >> RECALL THERE WERE FOUR
ARTICLES AGAINST BILL CLINTON
AND THE HOUSE ONLY APPROVED TWO.
THERE WERE FOUR VOTED ON ON THE
HOUSE FLOOR.
HOUSE FLOOR. ONLY TWO PASSED.
>> IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE EVEN
JUST WITH DONALD TRUMP AND
BRAZEN LAWLESSNESS AND SLOPPY,
SORT OF INCOMPETENT LAW BUSTING
AND NORM BUSTING, HE GOT AWAY
WITH EVERYTHING BECAUSE THERE
WAS TOO MUCH.
THERE’S THIS SENSE THAT EVEN HE
BENEFITED FROM THE VOLUME OF
MISCONDUCT.
MISCONDUCT. THAT IF YOU KEEP IT -- IF YOU
JUST GO BACK TO NANCY PELOSI,
WHAT BROUGHT HER AROUND, THE
INTRACTABLE NANCY PELOSI, WAS
THE SIMPLE ACT OF PICKING UP THE
PHONE THE DAY AFTER MUELLER
TESTIFIED AND ASKING UKRAINE TO
BURY A POTENTIAL RIVAL.
>> THAT’S WHY I THINK THE
DEMOCRATS’ BEST STRATEGY HERE IS
TO USE THIS AS AN EXEMPLAR OF A