STEADILY FOR OAF AVER A DECADE. SO FIGHTING OVER SYMBOLS?
WE’RE FIGHTING OVER LIES.
AS A DEMOCRAT, HOW DO YOU TRUST
THAT?
THAT? >> YOU CAN’T.
>> LET’S BRING IN KASIE HUNT.
ELISE AND NICK ARE BACK WITH US
AS WELL.
AS WELL. SENATOR KING, MITCH McCONNELL
HAS I THINK THREE SENATORS SO
FAR TO CALL FOR AN END OF THE
SHUTDOWN.
SHUTDOWN. HOW MANY IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR
THIS PRESIDENT TO REALIZE IT’S A
NO-WIN BATTLE.
NO-WIN BATTLE. >> IT ONLY TAKES ONE MORE TO GET
TO A MAJORITY IN THE SENATE.
IF YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT A VETO,
IT WILL TAKE A LOT MORE.
THERE ARE UNDERLYING
INSTITUTIONAL ISSUES HERE.
THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT A WALL
BUT IT’S ABOUT A PRESIDENT THAT
DOESN’T SEEM TO REALIZE THAT
THERE ARE CONSTRAINTS ON WHAT HE
CAN DO.
CAN DO. HE CAN’T BUILD A WALL.
AND THERE ARE CONSTRAINTS IN THE
CONSTITUTION IN THE THEORY OF
THIS COUNTRY AND THAT’S REALLY
WHAT’S MORE DEEPLY AT STAKE
HERE.
HERE. IF HE IS ABLE TO EXTORT A POLICY
THAT HE WANTS OUT OF THE
CONGRESS THAT ISN’T POPULAR IN
THE COUNTRY BASED UPON HOLDING
THE GOVERNMENT HOSTAGE
LITERALLY, THAT’S WHAT WE’RE
TACKING ABOUT, THEN IT-- TALKING
IT HAD HAPPEN-- IT WILL HAPPEN A
AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.
THIS IS WHAT THE FRAMERS WERE
WORRIED ABOUT WAS AN EXECUTIVE
WHO OVERREACHED AND TRIED TO ACT
LIKE A MONARCH.
THAT’S WHAT THE CONSTITUTION WAS
ALL ABOUT IN 1787.
>> DO YOU HAVE EXAMPLES OF
CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE BEING HURT
BY THE SHUTDOWN OR WHAT HAVE YOU
HEARD ABOUT ITS IMPACT?
>> IT’S STARTING TO COME THROUGH
TO REGULAR PEOPLE.
WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE 800,000
FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.
FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. THERE ARE PROBABLY ANOTHER
500,000 OR MORE CONTRACTORS WHO
SERVICE VARIOUS GOVERNMENT
AGENCIES.
AGENCIES. THEY’RE GOING TO BE HIT BY THIS
AND ONCE IT’S SETTLED, THEY’RE
NOT GOING TO GET BACK PAY.
SO THEY’RE IN THE CROSS HAIRS.
WE’VE GOT ACADIA NATIONAL PARK
UP IN MAINE.
ALL THE PARKS ARE OPEN BUT
THEY’RE NOT BEING MANAGED, IF
YOU WILL.
YOU WILL. THAT’S ONE OF THE RIDICULOUS
THINGS ABOUT THIS.
LET’S PASS THE FUNDING BILLS FOR
THINGS LIKE THE NATIONAL PARKS,
THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT THAT
HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
TREASURY DEPARTMENT WITH THE
BORDER WALLS.
BORDER WALLS. APROPOS OF NOTHING WE’VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT, THERE IS NOBODY
IN THE CONGRESS WHO IS FOR OPEN
BORDERS.
BORDERS. I’M SO TIRED OF HEARING YOU’RE
EITHER FOR THE WALL OR YOU’RE
FOR OPEN BORDERS.
THAT’S NONSENSE.
THAT’S NONSENSE. EVERYONE IS FOR GOOD BORDER
SECURITY.
SECURITY. WE’RE JUST NOT FOR BORDER
SECURITY THAT DOESN’T MAKE
ECONOMIC OR PRACTICAL SENSE.
>> CONGRESSMAN, IT’S GOOD TO
HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF MAINE
WISDOM HERE IN GOTHAM CITY.
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS KIND
OF ACTION THAT TRUMP IS HOLDING
HOSTAGES BASICALLY --
>> HE REMINDS ME OF A GUY WHO
SAYS YOU HAVE A NICE LITTLE FORM
HERE, IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF YOU
HAD A FIRE.
YOU’VE GOT A NICE LITTLE
BUSINESS HERE, A SHAME IF YOU
PUT IT OUT OF BUSINESS.
>> YOU SAID THIS KIND OF THING
IS THE FRAMERS WERE CONCERNED
ABOUT, YOU INVOKED THE WORD
TYRANNY.
TYRANNY. YOU’RE NOT NANCY PELOSI, YOU’RE
NOT A CALIFORNIA LIBERAL, YOU’RE
AN INDEPENDENT SENATOR FROM
MAINE TOCAUCUSES WITH
DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. IS NANCY PELOSI CORRECT THAT
THIS IS A MORAL ISSUE?
>> I DON’T UNDERSTAND HER SAYING
THAT IT’S IMMORAL.
I DIDN’T GET THAT.
I DON’T SEE IT THAT WAY.
I THINK IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE,
IT’S UNECONOMIC, THERE ARE LOTS
OF PLACES WHERE WE DON’T NEED A
BIG WALL.
BIG WALL. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS
WITH IT.
WITH IT. WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT, THOUGH,
IS THE DEEPER INSTITUTIONAL
LEVEL OF A PRESIDENT WHO
BASICALLY SAYS I CAN DO WHATEVER
I WANT, ANYONE WHO GETS IN MY
WAY, I’M GOING TO BULLY THEM IN
SOME WAY AND IN THIS CASE
HOLDING UP THE JOBS AND
FUNCTIONING OF THE ENTIRE U.S.
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. >> YOU THINK NOT COMPROMISING
EVEN A LITTLE BIT ON THIS ISSUE
IS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE THAT
TRUMP CANNOT WIN ON THIS ISSUE?
>> I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE
PRINCIPLES INVOLVED, BUT I DO
THINK THERE ALWAYS IS GOING TO
BE A WAY OUT.
HE’S GOING TO DECLARE VICTORY NO
MATTER HOW THIS ENDS.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE PLACES
ALONG THE BORDER WHERE A WALL
MAKES SENSE AND, IN FACT, THERE
IS ONE.
IS ONE. I’VE SEEN IT IN SOUTHERN TEXAS.
SO LET’S SAY THERE ARE PLACES
WHERE WE CAN BUILD A WALL.
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, JOHN, IS
WE’VE NEVER BEEN GIVEN A PLAN
THAT I KNOW OF.
WHERE DO YOU NEED WALL, WHERE DO
YOU NEED FENCE, WHERE DO YOU
NEED SENSORS?
NEED SENSORS? THE WALL HAS BECOME THIS MYTHIC
ENTITY, BUT WE’VE NEVER BEEN
TOLD WHAT ARE YOU REALLY TALKING
ABOUT HERE?
ABOUT HERE? BECAUSE THERE MAY BE PLACES
WHERE EVERYBODY CAN AGREE, YEAH,
A WALL MAKES SENSE THERE.
THE PROBLEM IS HE’S STILLING
THIS AS THE WALL OR NOTHING AND
WE’RE GOING TO KEEP THE
GOVERNMENT CLOSED.
GOVERNMENT CLOSED. THAT’S NOT THE WAY WE MAKE
POLICY IN THIS COUNTRY.
>> AND THE PROBLEM, KASIE HUNT,
IS HIS STYLE IS TO LIE AND BULLY
AND NOT BE TRUSTED.
WHAT’S THE THING WITHLE ROOM
THAT DEMOCRATS WOULD OFFER IN
ANY SCENARIO.
ANY SCENARIO. I THINK THAT WOULD BE INCREDIBLY
RISKY.
RISKY. HE HAS PROVEN TO BE UNPREDICT
UNPREDICTABLE AND NOT CARE.
IF HE’S AGREED TO SOMETHING IN A
ROOM, HE’LL WALK OUT OF THE ROOM
AND SAY SOMETHING COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. WHAT DO YOU HEAR ABOUT HOW
DEMOCRATS ARE APPROACHING THIS?
>> YOU MENTIONED THAT TRUST
ISSUE.
ISSUE. I THINK THAT’S AT THE ROOT OF
ALL OF THIS.
IT MAY HAVE TO DO MORE WITH
REPUBLICANS THAN DEMOCRATS PAUSE
VICE PRESIDENT PENCE WENT UP TO
CAPITOL HILL AND ASSURED
EVERYBODY THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
ON BOARD THAT WAS PSED JUST
BEFORE CHRISTMAS.
BEFORE CHRISTMAS. MITCH McCONNELL GOES OUT IN
PUBLIC IN FRONT OF THE
MICROPHONES AND SAYS I’M
CONFIDENT THAT WE’RE NOT GOING
TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN.
AND THAT -- MITCH McCONNELL SAYS
I’M NOT GOING TO PUT THESE HOUSE
BILLS ON THE FLOOR, IF I READ IT
AS HOW CAN HE TRUST THE
PRESIDENT AGAIN?
PRESIDENT AGAIN? HE GOT REALLY BURNED.
SENATOR KING, THERE AS WHAT IS
YOUR PERCEPTION OF HOW THIS IS
BEING WORKED OUT?
AND DO YOU THINK THAT HIS SORT
OF LACK OF ENGAGEMENT IN THIS
PROCESS IS SOMETHING THAT’S
REALLY HINDERING EVERYTHING?
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT HE
HAS NOT BEEN ENGAGED.
BASICALLY HE SAID ON THE FLOOR,
I’M WATCHING MY HAND OF THIS IS,
THIS IS BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATS
AND THE PRESIDENT.
COME BACK TO ME WITH AN
AGREEMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT
WILL SIGN AND WE’RE GOOD.
YOB I DON’T THINK THAT’S
SUSTAINABLE.
SUSTAINABLE. IF THAT HE’S BEEN ADEPT IN THE
PAST OF FINDING COMPROMISE AND
WORKING WITH PEOPLE TO FIND A
COMPROMISE.
COMPROMISE. HE SAID I’M NOT GOING GET
INVOLVED IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS
BECAUSE I CAN’T RELY ON THE
FORECLOSURE SO THIS WALL HAS
BEEN CALLED A METAPHOR, IT’S
BEEN CALLED A SYMBOL, IT’S BEEN
CALLED A BAD IDEA.
TELL US ABOUT YOUR REPORTING
ABOUT HOW IT GOT STARTED IN THE
BEGINNING.
BEGINNING. >> AT FIRST IT WAS A NUM ON
BEING DEVICE WAY BACK TO MAKE
SURE HE WOULD TALK ABOUT IMBRAGS
ON A REAL ESTATE GUY, A TALK
ABOUT WALL OR SOMETHING HE CAN
GET HIS FINGERS ON.
ONCE HE GETS OUT THERE, HE FINDS
IT’S A THEY ADVISERALLY GET.
AS UNYOU CAN HEAR THE BEAT,
BEAT, BEAT, AND IF YOU TALK TO A
LOT OF IMMIGRATION ACTIVISTS,
HARDLINERS WHO THINK THE IMPRIGS
THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS
THEY THINK WILL BE MORE
IMPORTANT TOWARD SHUTTING DOWN
THAT LIGHT LINE AND HAS TAKEN ON
THE QUALITY THAT IT AS -- BUT
THIS IS SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT
WHEN YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE
REPUBLICANS’ ACTIONS AND WHAT
THEY’RE DOING.
THEY’RE DOING. THIS IS AN IDEA DURING THE
MIDDLE OF THE CAMPAIGN WHEN
DONALD TRUMP WAS TALKING ABOUT
BUILDING A WALL, IF YOU LOOK AT
PEW POLLS AND POLES FROM
ORGANIZATION ORGANIZE AND HERE
WE ARE THREE FOURS OF AMERICANS
ARE AGAINST SHUTTING DOWN THE
GOVERNMENT TO BUILD THIS ONE.
AGAIN, I KEEP TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT IS THE END GAME FOR THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHO WILL TELL
YOU AND TELL ME AND TELL
EVERYBODY WHO WILL LISTEN AND
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IT NOTHING
BUT -- AT WHAT POINT -- I MEAN,
DO YOU SEE ANYBODY IN THE PARTY
STANDING UP AND TRYING TO AT
THAT WE CAN’T DESTROY OUR SENATE
SENATE.
SENATE. >> THERE ARE ADVISERS WHO TELL
HIM HE DOESN’T HAVE TO WORRY
QUITE SO MUCH ABOUT THE BASE.
IF FOR SOME REASON THE WALL
DOESN’T GET BUILD OR AND WHO
BELIEVES THEY’RE FIGHTING FOR
THE THINGS HE BELIEVED IN IT.
THEY SEEM HIM AS SHARING THEIR
VALUES AND THEIR FEARS AND THEIR
CONCERNS ABOUT THE BOTHEREDER.
SO THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE
TELLING HIM HE HAS MORE WIGGLE
ROOM THERE HAN HE MIGHT THING PB
IF HE DOESN’T GET THE WALL, IT
MEANS HE DIDN’T SUCCEED.
>> ELISE JORDAN.
>> YOU SAID THAT IT’S NOT LIKE
EVERYONE IN CONGRESS IS FOR
DEMOCRATS OR FOR OPEN BORDERS.
AND YOU AGREE THAT THERE ARE
AREAS THAT COULD USE SOME KIND
OF WALL FUNCTION.
>> SURE.
>> SURE. >> ON THE BORN AND IN SPOTS THAT
REALLY NEED FOR THEIFICATION,
PRINCIPLES, BUT NOT GETTING INTO
A SWEEPING OFFER.
>> YES, THAT’S EXACTLY THE
POINT.
POINT. I MEAN, A 2,000 MILE WALL, JOHN
KELLY I SAID THINK IT WON’T BE
2,000 MILES.
2,000 MILES. WE DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT
THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN THEY
SAY THAT.
SAY THAT. I THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE A BLUE
RIB ON COMMISSION, IF YOU WILL,
BUT EVERYONE IN THE SENATE HAS
VOTED FOR STRONG BORDER SECURITY
AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.
.
. I DID, ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE
DEMOCRAT BEING CAUCUS BACK IN 20
2013.
2013. IT’S A QUESTION OF HOW DO DO YOU
IT AS A PRACTICAL MATTER?
IN SOME WHEN YOU COULD DO IT
WITH FENCES OR SENSES OF DRON.
YOU NEED SMART BORDER SECURITY,
NOT JUST BUILDING SOMETHING THAT
WILL COST $20 MILLION A MILE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THINK WHAT YOU
COULD DO WITH THAT MONEY IN
OTHER WITH LET’S START WITH THE
FACT -- HERE’S SOMETHING WE’VE
LOST IN A, HALF OF THE ILLEGAL
PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY IS BECAUSE
THEY’VE COME HERE ON VISAS AND
OVERSTAYED THEM.
OVERSTAYED THEM. AND THE OTHER PROBLEM IS ASYLUM
SEEKERS WHO COME TO PORTS OF
ENTRY.
ENTRY. THEY’RE NOT TRYING TO SNEAK
ACROSS THE BORDER, SWIM CRASS
THE RIVER.
THE RIVER. THE TO A 21st CENTURY PROBLEM
AND IT NOT THE RIGHT SOLUTION.
LET’S TALK ABOUT WHAT THE REAL
PROBLEMS ARE, HOW SHALL WE DEAL
WITH THEM.
WITH THEM. THE $5 BILLION ISN’T THE ISSUE.
IT THE WALL, WHICH AS AKEEP
SAYING, ISN’T THE THE RIGHT THK
THE I ACTUALLY THINK THE CHINESE
THOUGHT OF IT A COUPLE THOUSAND
YEARS AGO.
YEARS AGO. >> AND EMPEROR HADRIAN’S WALL.
>> YES.
>> YES. SO HERE WE ARE IN 2019 AND THE
PRESIDENT, SPEAKING OF NATIONAL
SECURITY, HAS SENT TROOPS DOWN
TO GET A BORDER FOR A
NONEXISTENT CARAVAN,
NONEXISTENT CARAVAN, NONEXISTENCE YET HE’S TALKING
ABOUT RIPPING TROOPS OUT OF
SYRIA, WHICH GO AND TO ISIS,
ALLOW THEM TO REBUILD THERE.
RIGHT NOW IT’S HARD TO READ THE
TEA LEAVES.
TEA LEAVES. THE PRESIDENT SAID THE TROOPS
WERE GOING TO LEAVE AND THEN HE
SAID, WELL, WE’RE NOT GOING TO
TAKE THEM OUT ALL AT ONCE.
NOW WE HEAR THAT THE NATIONAL
SECURITY SECURITY ADVISER IS
ASSURING ALLIES LIKE ISRAEL, I
DON’T AND DO YOU HAVE ANY
KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE
PRESIDENT’S PLANS ARE IN SYRIA
AND WHAT OUGHT THEY NEED TO BE?
>> THEN JOHN BOLTON TODAY OR
OVER THE WEEKEND IS DOING THE
AIMING PART, WHICH SHOULD HAVE
BEEN DONE MONTHS AGO ABOUT THE
CONDITIONED BASE LEAVING,
REASSURING OUR ALLIES, THE
ISRAELIS, TELLING THE IRAQIS AND
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE WAY
THAT WAS HANDLED IN THE FIRST
PLACE.
PLACE. THE NING THAT WORRIED ME THE MOE
MYSELF, JEANNE SHAHEEN, MARCO
LUBE YET.
LUBE YET. I CAN’T CLAIM -- THE BANNING OF
THE TURKS WAS JUST IRRESPONSIBLE
AND AWFUL.
AND AWFUL. THAT SEEMS TO BE WHERE GOING TO
PULL BACK.
PULL BACK. NOW, WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
JOHN BOLTON GOES TO TURKEY TODAY
OR TOMORROW AND DEALS MR. WHO
APPARENTLY -- BUT THIS JUST
DEMONSTRATES THE KIND OF REASON
YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT THESE
THINGS, CONSULT ABOUT THEM.
THE SAD THING FOR ME IS JOHN
BOLTON IS DOING WHAT I’M SURE
SECRETARY MATTIS RECOMMENDED AND
THE FACT THAT HE DIDN’T DO IT
WITH AND I DON’T SLEEP AS WELL
WITH JIM MATTIS GONE, I GOT TO
TELL YOU.
TELL YOU. >> I DON’T AS WELL EITHER.
SENATOR ANGUS KING, THANK YOU.
SAY HI TO MARY.
TELL HER I’M LISTENING TO MY
ANDY GIBB RECORD ALL THE TIME.
>> BY THE WAY, IF I LOOK
FAMILIAR TODAY, IT’S BECAUSE I
ARRIVED AT THE STUDIO WITHOUT A
JACKET.
JACKET. THIS IS JOE’S JACKET AND TIE I
HAVE ON.
HAVE ON. >> YOU LOOK HANDSOME.
>> I KNEW IT.
>> I THOUGHT YOUR GAME WAS A