Once you've seen an execution you can never go back once you've seen it I can't go back
The system has flaws
And that bothers me she needed that there are racial biases in the justice system
absolutely I
Think you've got a good example of that with Thomas middle rel
Certainly
I've had 10 execution dates in believe me just having one or two execution days is enough for anybody to go through in one lifetime
He was always a good interview because he always come down to the interview areas for it for anybody want to talk to him
He'd talked to him I was incarcerated for
robbery and murder
How long since I've ministered the crack which II don't really make a lot of difference?
It's one of the things that it's kind of an unwritten rule that
You don't really talk to the offender about the crime that they did if they volunteer it fine
Let him talk, but I never walked into Thomas Miller-El almost. Did you do this crime?
When I left the prison system all of a sudden here comes somebody knocking in my door wants to help Thomas move around
To major court rulings addressing the practice of stacking juries by race
For 20 years the state of Texas has been trying to execute Thomas Miller-El
But his lawyers accused the prosecutors of deliberately setting out to exclude
African-americans from the trial jury and today in a 6 to 3 ruling the Supreme Court said the evidence is too powerful
A judge ordered a new trial for Thomas Miller-El
The next thing wound up a special prosecutor showed up my doorstep
we were
at the precipice we were trying to make that decision life, or death and
undertook to look more into Miller-El's background and
Thoroughly did a vetting of him
and that led me to
Larry Fitzgerald
Sit around two guys drinking coffee, and you could see him rear back and tell old Thomas
And I remember him well, then there were times we had a many philosophical conversations
I said he'd resolved some things that were some really touchy
situations between different offenders and
I thought he was pretty much of a peacemaker
On death row he said like the Thomas that I saw in prison should not be put to death
That he has made a difference and will continue to make a difference while he's living well
I just believe there's there's something besides the death penalty in Texas. I believe that no matter how bad you are?
If you get incarcerated, they'll take care of you
That convinced me to stop any pursuit of the death penalty
Larry had that effect on me, and I was so glad that I spoke to him and that different perspective
turned me around and
Led to the plea to save his life
Man oh, Mr. Fitzgerald oh man this man he is
Matter of fact the first person I meet if I never get out of here, they shake hands when I get out of here
That's a real good man
I recall telling him
that
When I was up for my last execution
And he came he talked to me say Thomas. He said I don't know if I'd be able to be there
I explained to him that I'd
Prefer freeing him to be there because he was a human being he treats you like a human being, not like an animal or an object
And there's something about being in prison that occurs for both
Inmates and staff a lot of times. They lose their humanity. It's a horrible existence to be in a penitentiary in Texas
So did I do him any favors?
the rest of his life this person is going to be subjected to
the prison system
Did I do him any favors
Probably not, but at least still alive